[rjabend]

Level 3 or above hands free driving has been banned in British Columbia!

https://carbuzz.com/british-columbia...-driving-tech/

Seems like a little bit of an overreach to me. Thoughts?

[blutob2]

I see no issues with this at all. Still need significantly more testing. I've only driven in BC once, from Vancouver to the mountains. But probably just like the US, the infrastructure is still behind this technology and doesn't seem to be a set standard amongst the states so maybe the Canadian provinces are the same issue.

[skrontz]

Banning the car regardless of whether the Level 3 driving features are enabled or not is definitely a bureaucratic overreach. Granted, it largely only applies to tourists since such cars are not sold in Canada in the first place.

[rjabend]

I think the role of Government may be to set standards to be met before release of a Driver Assitance system. They have no place banning across the board with no specific requirements or standards defined. Any defined standards should be developed in conjunction with an industry committee since the Government does not have the necessary technical insight to do it on its own. It is also true that Driver Assistance efficacy varies across manufacturers, are they all bad?

[MystroX5]

Great. It is not ready for prime time.

[rjabend]

MystroX5: "It is not ready for prime time."

Thanks for your scientific analysis along with the statistical data supporting your conclusion!

[rjabend]

https://www.morningstar.com/news/bus...ades-worldwide

"Many studies have found notable safety benefits from key ADAS technologies. The AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety has said technologies available today could prevent 37 million crashes, 14 million injuries and nearly 250,000 deaths in the United States over the next 30 years if made standard on all vehicles."

[blutob2]

Originally Posted by rjabend

MystroX5: "It is not ready for prime time."

Thanks for your scientific analysis along with the statistical data supporting your conclusion!

Do you have data that it is ready?

I mean it doesn't take but 6.9 seconds to run a google search to see the # of crashes and deaths related to this technology.

Is Canada, well B.C., doing a drastic measure banning the cars? Maybe, but we all know if the car has the tech then the driver will use it regardless of the law saying not too, so instead B.C. is simply enforcing a ban on all cars with Level 3, until it's proven more reliable. What are those requirements and measurements to finally allow the tech, no idea.

[blutob2]

Originally Posted by rjabend

https://www.morningstar.com/news/bus...ades-worldwide

"Many studies have found notable safety benefits from key ADAS technologies. The AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety has said technologies available today could prevent 37 million crashes, 14 million injuries and nearly 250,000 deaths in the United States over the next 30 years if made standard on all vehicles."

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/15/11052...ies-tell-regul

And yes ADAS can prevent crashes but ADAS includes multiple features such as emergency braking and is part of the lower levels too. You can't take that quote and apply it to the level 3 ban in B.C.

[skrontz]

Originally Posted by blutob2

I mean it doesn't take but 6.9 seconds to run a google search to see the # of crashes and deaths related to this technology.

How does it compare in terms of percentages to crashes and deaths caused by human drivers?

Originally Posted by blutob2

Is Canada, well B.C., doing a drastic measure banning the cars? Maybe, but we all know if the car has the tech then the driver will use it regardless of the law saying not too, so instead B.C. is simply enforcing a ban on all cars with Level 3, until it's proven more reliable.

They should also immediately limit the maximum speed of all cars to not exceed the highest posted speed limit across the country. Otherwise, you know, drivers will always speed and break the law.

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by blutob2

Do you have data that it is ready?

I mean it doesn't take but 6.9 seconds to run a google search to see the # of crashes and deaths related to this technology.

Is Canada, well B.C., doing a drastic measure banning the cars? Maybe, but we all know if the car has the tech then the driver will use it regardless of the law saying not too, so instead B.C. is simply enforcing a ban on all cars with Level 3, until it's proven more reliable. What are those requirements and measurements to finally allow the tech, no idea.

Thanks for your input! As you state, there is no question that driver assistance technology flaws cause accidents and deaths. As we know, manual human-only driving also causes accidents. I have not seen a comparison indicating which one is worse and of course, that would vary across vehicle manufacturers. I just completed 200 X7 miles on the Florida Turnpike without a single need to touch the steering wheel. That said, I do touch the wheel when in close proximity to other vehicles (particularly trucks) because I get very nervous.
I consider ADAS to be a partner that improves my driving when I make an error such as missing a vehicle in the adjacent lane when making a lane change. Do drivers abuse ADAS? Some do, some don’t. The bottom line is whether the number of accidents and deaths improves or decreases with Level 3 ADAS. In my case, there is a definite improvement in my driving with ADAS, but I haven’t seen statistical data showing that across the board. The bottom line is B.C. may be decreasing safety with their ban.

[Orient330iNYC]

you do realize there is a huge difference between level 2 autonomy ( which is bmw drive assist pro, tesla, etc) and level 3 (currently only MB has it in limited locations). right now level 3 is only legal in california and nevada.
they did not ban hands free driving.

Level 2 and below, the driver has primary responsibility for control of the vehicle- the driver is expected to monitor all aspects of the environment and take control when the car doesnt do what its supposed to do

Level 3 and above, the CAR has primary responsibility- the driver may be called on to intervene. level 3 is not classed as an ADAS system.

i suspect the reason part of canada banned is the issue of liability- who is liable in the case of a car accident, the mfr or the driver(passenger). very few states have the legal framework to account for Level 3 even here in the states.

[rjabend]

[QUOTE=Orient330iNYC;31080109]you do realize there is a huge difference between level 2 autonomy ( which is bmw, tesla, etc) and level 3 (currently only MB has it in limited locations). right now level 3 is only legal in california and nevada.

Level 2 and below, the driver has primary responsibility for control of the vehicle- the driver is expected to monitor all aspects of the environment and take control when the car doesnt do what its supposed to do

Level 3 and above, the CAR has primary responsibility- the driver may be called on to intervene. level 3 is not classed as an ADAS system.

Thanks. Yes, I am aware of that. The driver still has a choice as to monitoring level and I believe the factors I pointed out still apply. E.G. Does data support the fact that driving with Level 3 is less safe than driving with Level 2? Did B.C. base the prohibition on statistical data?? I also believe the driver may be called on to take over in Level 3 and it is OK to call Level 3 a form of ADAS. Please see:
https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/...e%20the%20task.

[Orient330iNYC]

SAE does not define L3 as driving assistance. the body that defines what is l2 and L3 has a very clear distinction between the two.
and there are very few L3 cars so i doubt there is any data to back up the assertion that they will be safer.
your link quotes a random site describing the levels. the chart that i posted is from the authority that DEFINES the levels.

adas is Advanced Driver ASSISTANCE systems. L3 is not a driving assistance system, its autonomy. the driver does not have to be paying attention AT ALL in an L3 system until the system prompts them to take over as the car is the one driving.



tesla "full self driving" does not even come close to meeting the SAE standard for L3 autonomy. it is fully L2 and an ADAS system.

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

SAE does not define L3 as driving assistance. the body that defines what is l2 and L3 has a very clear distinction between the two.
and there are very few L3 cars so i doubt there is any data to back up the assertion that they will be safer.
your link quotes a random site describing the levels. the chart that i posted is from the authority that DEFINES the levels.

adas is Advanced Driver ASSISTANCE systems. L3 is not a driving assistance system, its autonomy. the driver does not have to be paying attention AT ALL in an L3 system until the system prompts them to take over as the car is the one driving.

I think it is fair to say there are lots of varying definitions and Level 3 is termed "DRIVE PILOT is the world's first and only system for conditionally automated driving" That said, you are probably right

tesla "full self driving" does not even come close to meeting the SAE standard for L3 autonomy. it is fully L2 and an ADAS system.

Mercedes L3 is called "DRIVE PILOT is the world's first and only system for conditionally automated driving" Since it is conditional, can it be called "Assisted"? You are probably right though about sticking with the exact SAE definition.

[zippytank49]

I don't understand the point of self-driving cars...just take an uber or a taxi...LOL

But seriously. The sensor suite alone on a fully-autonomous car will cost more than the car itself, so we are a long way away from mass production of L3+ vehicles.

[rjabend]

Thought this might be of interest on Level 3 Updated this evening:

Pretty limited conditions under which it operates!

[sbt007]

Originally Posted by zippytank49

I don't understand the point of self-driving cars...just take an uber or a taxi...LOL

But seriously. The sensor suite alone on a fully-autonomous car will cost more than the car itself, so we are a long way away from mass production of L3+ vehicles.

+1 to this