[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Where I live, gas is $3.80 for premium, so getting 26 mpg on road trips with the family in the X7 is optimal and driving the iX around town is the better use case.

I never factored in gas or kWh savings in any of my car purchases. If anyone is doing that when considering close to 100K car, he’s probably driving the wrong car for the budget. But u r right, anything above 25 MPG is just cheap enough. EVs anyway cost more to charge on highway that makes them probably equivalent to 35-50 MPGe car depending on where u live, compared to 80+ MPGe in-town or even in the 100s more if u have solar/etc at home or night-cheap charging rates. So, really cost per mile is great but not as much as we think it is on highways for EVs.

I prefer EVs on long trips for the smooth power delivery and enjoyable ride compared to ICE so the ideal EV for me is the one that can be used both in-town and long trip. I also don’t find any of the ICE cars enjoyable to drive after experiencing high hp EV as a daily drive, despite still having two 3 ICE cars in my garage next to the EV. I’d take no shortcuts if am investing 80-120K in an EV car though. The truth is that BMW mostly designed their EVs with the European market in mind. Driving in the states and owners need reasonable range that non of the BMW cars yet offer. The next i5 might be the first non-goofy looking EV after the i4 but I really hope it will come with decent range. There where some discussions that the iX will be discontinued at some point and I won’t be surprised if they do that once the i5 is available. Lucid Gravity will be the only SUV soon that makes sense from practicality stand point, space and 420-440 miles range, and am looking forward to it but still would not own Lucid unless I move to WA or CA for service availability and until they figure out their charging network issues. Tesla will never give them access to their network. I don’t see any practical SUV EV option nowadays, but at least there are a couple Sedans. Anyway what works from one person doesn’t always work for everyone else. It’s all about expectations and minimum requirements/needs.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

I never factored in gas or kWh savings in any if my car purchases. If anyone is doing that when considering close to 100K car, he’s probably driving the wrong car for the budget. I prefer EVs on long trips for the smooth power delivery and enjoyable ride compared to ICE so the ideal EV for me is the one that can be used both in-town and long trip. I’d take no shortcuts if am investing 80-120K in a car. The truth is that BMWE mostly designed their EVs with the European market in mind. Driving in the states and owners need reasonable range that non of the BMW cars yet offer. Lucid Gravity will be the only SUV soon that makes sense from practicality stand point and am looking forward to it but still would not own Lucid unless I move to WA or CA for service availability and until they figure out their charging network issues. Tesla will never give them access to their network.

Same. The X7 is spacious and extremely comfortable and smooth. For a family of 5 it’s perfect for road trips. So my point was more geared to assuming the value prop of taking an EV on the road trip. I made that assumption because why would anyone want to take a vehicle on a road trip that they have to charge? It adds 20 minutes for every 2 hours, at least in a Tesla model Y and at 75-80 mph. The S is probably 30 min every 3 hours. Waste of time.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Same. The X7 is spacious and extremely comfortable and smooth. For a family of 5 it’s perfect for road trips. So my point was more geared to assuming the value prop of taking an EV on the road trip. I made that assumption because why would anyone want to take a vehicle on a road trip that they have to charge? It adds 20 minutes for every 2 hours, at least in a Tesla model Y and at 75-80 mph. The S is probably 30 min every 3 hours. Waste of time.

Makes sense.. in harsh winter months we always take our X7 but never anything but the EV in all other 3 seasons.. One needs to understand charging curves to get the best out of the charging sessions. Again I never considered the Y for it’s poor charging curve and same for BWMs. In the S, my average stop is 10-20 min every 2-3 hours and that’s exactly what I do because we have kids and they need at least one stop every 3 years even when we travel with the X7 or X5. The reason the charge doesn’t last that long is because I have a plenty of 250 kW chargers around me, and at the same time, I made sure to consume kWh in the range when the car is super fast charging which is in the range of 10% to 60% and then I let it go from 60% to 85% max. Anything beyond that is when the car charging curve becomes slow even via a super fast supercharger. Using this method, I put in kWh really quick which is not all EVs can do. Looking online it looks like the iX 50i peaks at 190 kW but from 10% to 40% it has even less than 190kW starting from around 175 kWh, and then again drops quickly after 40%. The S does 250 kW flat all the way from 10% up to 35% before it starts to drop to lower values. However, the overall iX combined average for 10 to 80% is quite great and actually very impressive but that forces you to follow very long charging sessions all at once instead of the ability to do a short season with more kWh average per unite of time. It’s in the low state of charge (SoC) range where EV would mostly help on long trips, and that’s where the Model S beats every other car and in most cases on a highway cause that’s where you stop usually with low SoC, For that reason I stop for a very short period of time and I never wait to put in many kWh in the 60-90% range when all EVs are slow even if it means I will have to stop for another 10 min after 2 hours. There are nice tools/software that one can use to optimize his charging stops but Tesla software is superior in that aspect and most of my trips includes only 10 min stop anyway if I want to stop every 2 hours or 20 min every 3 hours, all focused on charging the low kWh percentages. Based on a website that does very nice analysis, the Optimum charge stop time 23m 25s for the iX, and the Optimum charge stop time is 16m 9s for the Model S. So you are doing the right thing by stopping for long durations but it may be not be ideal for sure. If you are charging more/less than these durations for any of these 2 cars, then u are doing it wrong and will end up waiting for much longer charging all together for a long high way trips. I average around 1 0-20 min around that 15 min number ever 2 to 3 hours.

[Brokejetflyer]

If you want to look like a suppository on the road, buy the Model X.

Or be a man and buy an X7.

You’re welcome

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

Makes sense.. in harsh winter months we always take our X7 but never anything but the EV in all other 3 seasons.. One needs to understand charging curves to get the best out of the charging sessions. Again I never considered the Y for it’s poor charging curve and same for BWMs. In the S, my average stop is 10-20 min every 2-3 hours and that’s exactly what I do because we have kids and they need at least one stop every 3 years even when we travel with the X7 or X5. The reason the charge doesn’t last that long is because I have a plenty of 250 kW chargers around me, and at the same time, I made sure to consume kWh in the range when the car is super fast charging which is in the range of 10% to 60% and then I let it go from 60% to 85% max. Anything beyond that is when the car charging curve becomes slow even via a super fast supercharger. Using this method, I put in kWh really quick which is not all EVs can do. Looking online it looks like the iX 50i peaks at 190 kW but from 10% to 40% it has even less than 190kW starting from around 175 kWh, and then again drops quickly after 40%. The S does 250 kW flat all the way from 10% up to 35% before it starts to drop to lower values. However, the overall iX combined average for 10 to 80% is quite great and actually very impressive but that forces you to follow very long charging sessions all at once instead of the ability to do a short season with more kWh average per unite of time. It’s in the low state of charge (SoC) range where EV would mostly help on long trips, and that’s where the Model S beats every other car [...]

My kids - ages 6,7,9 - on most trips don’t need to stop for 3 or 4 hours. Occasionally we’ll stop sooner for a Starbucks, but there is no SC at the Starbucks locations on our routes. Then there’s the 3 hour road trip to the mountains with no SC on the route.

And we average 75-80 mph for most of the trip. The X can’t handle this situation for us… I am not going slower for the sake of driving the EV, and I don’t want to stop more.

Just having to think so much about planning and charging/ stopping etc is another stressor I don’t need. So I don’t understand why the EV road trip is a thing for families. I’d rather drive a minivan than the model X.

[Patgilm]

Originally Posted by Crimsonboz

I’ve had 2 Model X and 3 X7’s now. Currently have an XB7 as my daily. The biggest downfall of the Model X is the interior noise. Tesla went cheap on the sound deadening. Highway cruising is loud, simply put. Tech is good, body panel and interior fitment average or so. BMW excels at fit and finish in comparison. The range and range anxiety never bothered me but anyone who doesn’t think getting gas is easier isn’t being truthful while traveling. The idea of charging while taking trips sounds good, grabbing food once is great but the other 6 stops isn’t. I would consider owning a Tesla again but strictly for in town use. I think that’s been echoed in here as well.

I have a Plaid and X7 M50i (for about 2 and three years, respectively) and couldn’t agree with you more. I love my Plaid and while the interior materials are great the BMW fit and finish is on another level. While the Tesla is pretty quiet mine has a number of creaks and rattles but luckily the sound system is incredible and can drown out those noises. The build quality on mine is a joke and the doors sound hollow compared to the X7. My Plaids interior wear is not doing as well as the X7 either. Seat comfort IMO is much better in the X7 (although the Plaid is by no means uncomfortable) it is way more adjustable and the Plaid doesn’t even have thigh extension adjustment.

Service is also a joke, I’ve had my car in the service center more times than any other car and I’ve spent 5 hours three times in the waiting area because of no loaners and that doesn’t include the three to four mobile visits when I get lucky enough to get one to come to my house. Range is also a joke, I get 250 miles of real world highway driving at 100% so EPA doesn’t mean a thing, I want to know real world driving range and other manufacturers are more realistic so take EPA range with a grain of salt. I’m going on a road trip in a few weeks and dreading it.

With all that being said, I do really love my Plaid and would get another. I just hope if I get another one that I don’t have as many issues. Best of both worlds is to have both, one for daily driving and one for road trips. Our Plaid gets way more use as it is a much better daily driver.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Patgilm

I have a Plaid and X7 M50i (for about 2 and three years, respectively) and couldn’t agree with you more. I love my Plaid and while the interior materials are great the BMW fit and finish is on another level. While the Tesla is pretty quiet mine has a number of creaks and rattles but luckily the sound system is incredible and can drown out those noises. The build quality on mine is a joke and the doors sound hollow compared to the X7. My Plaids interior wear is not doing as well as the X7 either. Seat comfort IMO is much better in the X7 (although the Plaid is by no means uncomfortable) it is way more adjustable and the Plaid doesn’t even have thigh extension adjustment.

Service is also a joke, I’ve had my car in the service center more times than any other car and I’ve spent 5 hours three times in the waiting area because of no loaners and that doesn’t include the three to four mobile visits when I get lucky enough to get one to come to my house. Range is also a joke, I get 250 miles of real world highway driving at 100% so EPA doesn’t mean a thing, I want to know real world driving range and other manufacturers are more realistic so take EPA range with a grain of salt. I’m going on a road trip in a few weeks and dreading it.

With all that being said, I do really love my Plaid and would get another. I just hope if I get another one that I don’t have as many issues. Best of both worlds is to have both, one for daily driving and one for road trips. Our Plaid gets way more use as it is a much better daily driver.

On the service issues, did they offer you Uber credits? I got lucky and was given a loaner when our Y front motor failed (after 200 miles). The loaner was a model X that had 50k miles on it - gen 1. It creaked and rattled like nothing else I’ve ever been in, similar to one of those old Lincoln town car yellow cabs in NYC but worse because the fake plastic seats don’t age well.

And what issues have you had with your Plaid?

I wouldn’t hold out hope that things will get better with Tesla quality. They’re obviously focused on other things…

We love our X7. I considered the X, but we went iX. It’s so much better but doesn’t have the 6 seat setup.

[Patgilm]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

On the service issues, did they offer you Uber credits? I got lucky and was given a loaner when our Y front motor failed (after 200 miles). The loaner was a model X that had 50k miles on it - gen 1. It creaked and rattled like nothing else I’ve ever been in, similar to one of those old Lincoln town car yellow cabs in NYC but worse because the fake plastic seats don’t age well.

And what issues have you had with your Plaid?

I wouldn’t hold out hope that things will get better with Tesla quality. They’re obviously focused on other things…

We love our X7. I considered the X, but we went iX. It’s so much better but doesn’t have the 6 seat setup.

Only once was I offered Uber credits but it was only $100 so it wouldn’t cover the cost to my home and back. Twice I was provided a loaner, once was a Model Y which was nice and the other time I was offered a loaner was after I waited 5 hours and they told me they would finish by the end of the day and magically a loaner just happened to be available and it was a Model X Plaid so that was nice.

My issues were interior door panel was broken but assembled anyway when I took delivery which took three months to fix on a brand new car, HVAC super manifold and compressor was replaced, memory seat stopped working, trunk latch wouldn’t latch, airbag system sensor under the passenger seat had to be replaced, rear door hinge had to be replaced, side camera replaced, rear seat rattle fixed, new yoke due to peeling. Now my screen constantly squeaks constantly since there is some play on one side so I am hoping they send a mobile guy but doubt that will happen. I have been to three different service centers and while the people are all nice, the service at each was subpar.

With all its faults I still love the car but mine was not well built. I would also say that I had a full self driving trial last month and the newest version is the best auto driving car I’ve ever experienced. Still drove like a kid first learning how to drive but very very impressive.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Patgilm

Only once was I offered Uber credits but it was only $100 so it wouldn’t cover the cost to my home and back. Twice I was provided a loaner, once was a Model Y which was nice and the other time I was offered a loaner was after I waited 5 hours and they told me they would finish by the end of the day and magically a loaner just happened to be available and it was a Model X Plaid so that was nice.

My issues were interior door panel was broken but assembled anyway when I took delivery which took three months to fix on a brand new car, HVAC super manifold and compressor was replaced, memory seat stopped working, trunk latch wouldn’t latch, airbag system sensor under the passenger seat had to be replaced, rear door hinge had to be replaced, side camera replaced, rear seat rattle fixed, new yoke due to peeling. Now my screen constantly squeaks constantly since there is some play on one side so I am hoping they send a mobile guy but doubt that will happen. I have been to three different service centers and while the people are all nice, the service at each was subpar.

With all its faults I still love the car but mine was not well built. I would also say that I had a full self driving trial last month and the newest version is the best auto driving car I’ve ever experienced. Still drove like a kid first learning how to drive but very very impressive.

I had the opposite experience with FSD. Sometimes impressive, but mostly annoying. I’ve compared notes with a friend who subscribed years ago, and he thinks I had a different version than his.

Amazed you stuck with Tesla and still love the car after all those problems. If I have three issues with a car I want to trade it in. At that price point totally unacceptable.

[Patgilm]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I had the opposite experience with FSD. Sometimes impressive, but mostly annoying. I’ve compared notes with a friend who subscribed years ago, and he thinks I had a different version than his.

Amazed you stuck with Tesla and still love the car after all those problems. If I have three issues with a car I want to trade it in. At that price point totally unacceptable.

I’ve driven the previous version of FSD and it wasn’t good and it was completely annoying. The newest version is much better. Still doesn’t drive like a human, especially when it changes lanes and tries to pass cars, but it is very good. The problem with it is that since it doesn’t drive like a human or how I want to drive, even when I have it set to the most aggressive setting, I feel like people where I live would road rage on me because of the way it drives.

As for sticking with Tesla, I wouldn’t mind trading out for another Plaid but with the price drops over the last year I am a little over $20k upside down. I would pay that if I were to get into a different car but to get the same exact car, I personally don’t think it is worth it.