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Originally Posted by Silver Streek
I too have heard good things about Dark side and seen many of their YouTube vids. I dare say even they would get good results while retaining the DPF in place.
It's one thing for your tuner and others to say it won't cause a problem with the MOT, but if you take it somewhere and they see any visible smoke when they test it a higher rpm they have to fail it. Of course some MOT people are more friendly than others so it's pot luck. Tuners will tell you that you won't get any smoke without a DPF, this is just plain wrong/impossible they all smoke, the difference is how much they smoke. A good tuner will be able to tune it to produce less smoke but never zero smoke. After all by tuning you are adding in more fuel (the source of the power) and air, but the fuel ratio will be higher hence you will always get smoke especially when you put your foot down.
All these people saying my car doesn't smoke when I boot it, may not see it in their rear view mirror, but the person following them will certainly see it. The DPF is the thing that removes the soot, without it there is nothing to stop the soot exiting the exhaust hence the smoke. This is what the MOT guys should be looking out for.
Of course it is your car and your choice whether to keep or remove the DPF. Were not hear to vilify you for removing it.
I think the general consensus is that if you are after up to 300 horses you can leave the DPF in place, above this when you are looking at larger injectors and hybrid turbos etc then this is when the DPF becomes a hinderance.
Maybe have a chat with the guys at Darkside and any other reputable tuners the guys on here may suggest before you go ahead with your plans.
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I had the same concerns whenever the tuner mentioned removing the DPF and I spoke to him at length about black smoke and the MOT. He assured me that there would be no issues with the MOT and any of his clients who have had DPF deletes and remaps by him never had any issues with MOT tests.
In support of that a mate of a mate has a tuned 535d. He runs hybrid turbos and various other tweaks I can't remember but I confirmed recently that he also has removed his DPF and says he has never had an issue with the MOT. I dunno, maybe the rules are different over here for MOT's compared to the mainland? In fact I know they are different as we have dedicated MOT test centres over here but the specifics of the test itself I don't know.
Everything you said is correct though and it stands to reason that the motor will produce black smoke if there is no filter in place to capture it. I will speak to the tuner again and see what he says. I made it very clear during our conversation what I wanted and he still recommended I purchase the DPF delete kit. I can't question his motives either as it's not like I was buying it from him or anything so he wasn't trying to push for the sale.
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Originally Posted by Tambohamilton
Removing the DPF will 100% be a problem for the MOT. Any sign of tampering with or removing the DPF is an immediate fail, regardless of smoke/no smoke... Unless you have a friendly tester.
I think the vast majority of people recommend removing it because that will mask upstream issues; that is, having a DPF quickly highlights if there are any issues with how the engine is tuned or running (producing too much soot). Also it does remove some exhaust restriction, which helps with power levels, but it's not actually a problem until you're north of 300hp (or something to that effect).
I really like darkside, but they do seem to have quite a few issues with their 330d...doesn't fill me with confidence, though I really appreciate their candour.
I've never heard of anyone having issues with a BW tune, though I have seen folk accusing him of jumping on any naysayers. YMMV. Every other tuner I've always heard mixed reviews in some proportion.
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I think they had issues from pushing the last motor way too hard. It could rev to over 10k rpm?! Their parts seem to be top class though and I have no plans to modify the engine any further than what I've already purchased. I have a strong bias towards reliability over performance with this build, even the FMIC I have purchased was decided on because of the promise of lower inlet temps and the added cooling it provides. The increase in performance is very much an added bonus.
Unfortunately like I said before, I have no way of making it work with BW other than coming across on the ferry and driving there, staying overnight, etc. It just isn't handy at all and adds up to a very expensive tune! This new guy I have found has lots of great reviews online and has been in business for nearly 20 years now. What's more he is local and was the first of all the tuners I spoke to locally to fill me with any form of confidence so I feel content enough to let him work on the motor. As I said above I will discuss the DPF with him again as if I don't need it, the £300 it cost me can go towards the new brakes or suspension mods I am planning
Thanks for the input and advice from both of you. I will let you know what he says once I have spoken to him and how we are going to proceed.