[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Interesting perspective and in the end you need to do what works best for you. After all, YMMV. But I think some of your assumptions are a bit off as I have not experienced the pitfalls that you mentioned. So as a counter point to your points and speaking from my own personal experience with the miles and years I have owned my cars....

1) Safety is obviously important, and new safety tech is always a welcome thing, but that does not mean the safety tech in older cars (less than 10 years is very different than a 40 yr old car) makes them unsafe to drive. For example, I recently purchased for my teenage son a 2009 BMW 128i. Besides my basic principle of refusing to buy a teenager a brand new new car (I don't care what brand/model), from a safety perspective, I knew it had all of the modern safety requirements necessary to help protect him in case of an accident - such as multi-stage airbags and traction control. Extra "nannies" like lane change warning or automatic braking are nice, but not paramount, life or death safety technology. I further enhance his safety by things like proper tires and of course driver education (and not just the basic crap driver school that is necessary to get a license - real driver education). And while the car was used, I did a thorough pre-purchase inspection and knew exactly what I was getting into from a maintenance/reliability cost perspective - and that homework has paid off.

2) From a long term cost perspective, I actually did the math on one of the cars that I paid off and kept for a while. Basically adding up 6+ years of would-be car payments vs the actual post warranty cost to maintain/fix the car up until I got rid of it - I came out thousands of dollars ahead. But more important than the total amount saved by the end of vehicle ownership was the flexibility to do other stuff with my $$ instead of paying a perpetual car payment each month.

3) Regarding having to deal with "old car problems" as you mentioned, this is where doing your homework and putting a bit of extra effort before making a purchase (new or used) comes in to play. There are some cars that I would never buy (new or used) based on poor reliability history (for example, the BMW 7-series and 5-series can fall into this category, but typically not the 3-series), which would lead to a lot of old car expenses - so choose your car brand & model wisely. Also factory preventative maintenance is key - you need to do it, and then a bit more (a lot of people underestimate the importance of this). The included maintenance that comes with most new cars is barely enough for long term maintenance reliability and is more driven by saving $$ for the manufacturer than actual longevity of the vehicle. So for example changing "lifetime" fluids in the car at some basic periodicity is a must if you want to maximize long term reliability - and it doesn't cost much $$ or take that much time to do. And finally, being observant to what happens to the car (because "stuff" can always happen), then proactively addressing it so that it doesn't fester will help a car last longer as well. All too often the averge car owner will not pay attention to something being slightly off with their car and not address it once you are out of the new car honeymoon period (even when it comes to issues that may be covered under warranty).

Lastly, the advent of extended car warranties makes long term ownership of older cars less of a financial risk today compared to 5+ years ago when extended car warranties were essentially non-existent. There are several options available today. While not the same as the new car bumper-to-bumper warranty (nothing is), if you do your homework here, there are good ones that will cover all of the "usual suspects" that may break out 8-10 years and 100k+ miles for a few thousand dollars - typically less than 3-4 years worth of car payments. But admittedly, even my limit is approx 9-10 years and 130k-150k miles before I start looking for a change (with my 2005 M3 track car being the exception), which is why I am getting anxious to get out of my Expedition and into the X7 . I know there are some who like to go even longer......

At the end of the day, I think it is all about how much is your time and enjoyment of your car is worth to you - it is a pay me now or pay me later type of thing. I like to DIY on my cars so doing some maintenance (and personal modifications) on them which saves a lot of $$ in labor does not bother me as I see the long term benefit. I also don't like the idea of perpetual car payments either. But I completely understand why others may prefer a more "set-it and forget it" approach when it comes to vehicle ownership, and don't mind paying the $$ to get what they want, how they want, to satisfy their piece of mind.

@jmciver I agree with you on two big points you mentioned. One giving a teenager a new car. And two the Do it yourself maintainability.
If you're a mechanic and can fix old cars, it's well worth it. Likewise it's probably a good idea to give hand me downs to kids.
My dad would buy a new car, give it to mom, then me; so every two years we had a new car that passed along the lines.

Although when it comes time for my kids, they will probably Uber or use the subscription rental companies or lease a Honda Civic or similar. Because I'm not driving anything less than my M850i; and that v8 is probably too much power for kids.