Disappointed with Pure Stage 2 HF - Advise

[WarMachineM3]

Try to get tuned for erhanol/flex fuel if you can get your hands on any.

[JBM4]

Have you tried:

1) Run the BM3 OTS 2H stage 2 93 map and see how car feels. That should be mid to high 500’s in WHP and WTQ.

See if you can feel the difference.

2) CTS top mount is meh. Try putting back the oem TMIC for a quick test.

[Msm1984]

Originally Posted by JBM4

Have you tried:

1) Run the BM3 OTS 2H stage 2 93 map and see how car feels. That should be mid to high 500’s in WHP and WTQ.

See if you can feel the difference.

2) CTS top mount is meh. Try putting back the oem TMIC for a quick test.

It is very slow on ots stage 2H.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Msm1984

Thank you so much for reviewing the logs. I have been working with my tuner on getting this dialed in for almost a year now and this has been an on going issue, and in that time frame I have gotten gas from so many difference places I can't imagine the fuel quality being bad at all of them. That being said, I have never tried an octane booster or adding like a gallon of E85 to the car.

I religiously use 93 Shell and would have a good sample size of different stations by now so if the fuel quality is bad at all of them, I may as well just give up trying to run 93, but Southeast FL in general seems to have pretty good fuel.

This log here is the last log where my tuner said everything looked great, but I commented saying the car still feels kind of slow so boost has since been brought down and timing has been changed as you have seen in other logs posted here.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65e0...a2d701078ff549

What do you think of this log?

I still feel the WGDC is pretty high, and overall the car just feels dead until 5k ish. I understand that these turbos take longer to spool up and you can't compare them to oem turbos, but I really find it crazy how even now if I floor the car from low RPMs in second gear, the car doesn't even spin the tires. It just feels like there is very little torque as also illustrated from the dyno results which are attached below.

Granted, at the time of this dyno, a smoke test was done after the fact showing some leaks coming from the around the inlets of the turbos. Even after this was fixed, the performance still feels the same but I have not dynoed it again since.

If I were tuning the car, I would drop the boost and see how much I could increase the ignition advance. I would also do a compression test to make sure the motor is in good health.

Assuming you are at sea level, the WGDC does look a bit high for PS2 at 28-29 psig. What pressure did you go up to when you did the boost leak test?

[Msm1984]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

If I were tuning the car, I would drop the boost and see how much I could increase the ignition advance. I would also do a compression test to make sure the motor is in good health.

Assuming you are at sea level, the WGDC does look a bit high for PS2 at 28-29 psig. What pressure did you go up to when you did the boost leak test?

Pm’ed and if i was any closer to sea level i’d be hydroplaning lol.

[Msm1984]

The newest update is the car is at the shop that built the engine. As they were investigating a loud metallic ticking noise coming from around the engine, which sounds like your typical injector tick, the shop confirmed that the noise is not in fact coming from the engine rather than around where the turbos are and they believe it is related to the wastegates of the turbos.

What would be really annoying is that even though my pure turbos are still under warranty ( which is about to expire ) it honestly doesn't even matter if they determine that the turbos were faulty unless they cover labor + shipping costs.

It can easily cost thousands of dollars to take the turbos off the car, have them shipped in and pay a couple hundred dollars to ship them, then do everything in reverse will end up being 50% of the cost of the turbos to begin with. If that is the case, I hope to be reimbursed for that as the fact is, 100% of that cost is the result of a faulty product.

I'm not saying the turbos are faulty as I don't have definitive proof of that at this time, I just hope that if it was determined that it was a product defect, that labor costs are also covered ( which i doubt ).

[SilleM3]

Very concerning I just had pure stage 2+ installed and the mechanic is telling me the turbos are laggy ass crap and the car feels slow with bm3 stage 2h 91. I hope I'm not in the same quality control boat as you. I have a built motor as well with hpfp and lpfp. I'm going to hold all concerns till I get the car tuned. We'll see.

[Msm1984]

Originally Posted by SilleM3

Very concerning I just had pure stage 2+ installed and the mechanic is telling me the turbos are laggy ass crap and the car feels slow with bm3 stage 2h 91. I hope I'm not in the same quality control boat as you. I have a built motor as well with hpfp and lpfp. I'm going to hold all concerns till I get the car tuned. We'll see.

I confirmed with pure turbo that if there are any issues with the turbos, even if they sent you completely defective ones and they admit so, they are not liable for any labor associated with the removal and reinstallation associated with the process.

This becomes especially an issue as it can take well over a month after your turbos are shipped for them to even look at them which means that the shop more than likely would not want your car sitting there for that long, so you would need to have your stock turbos reinstalled for the time being which adds even more cost.

It's actually a pretty large risk for us as end users to take when upgrading our cars. Please know at this point I really don't have any definitive evidence of the turbos are faulty, but I certainly expect it as there are no codes, and there are no leaks found. I do know that the Wastgate duty cycle is definitely way higher than it should be, the turbos take quite some time to reach boost and the overall Dyno results are just absolutely horrible even with a custom tune by a well-known Turner here

[MineralWhiteF80]

did you keep factory compression ratio and camshafts? Depending on what compression ratio you ended up with, how much porting or work was done to the head/valves, and a more aggressive camshaft profile, these things can also add some additional turbo lag.

Also, I would be curious to see what your boost curve looks like if you started a WOT dyno run at much lower RPM, like going WOT in the 2000-2500 rpm range. Seems all of your dyno and datalogs start the WOT pull at 3500 to 4000 rpm, so boost response likely wouldnt show as early as it might be able to.

2nd edit lol: interesting video of stock turbos on E85 vs Pure Turbos PS2+. Very interesting to see the much earlier boost response of the stock turbos and how that equates to beating a 'bigger turbo' car in a friendly highway race.

[Msm1984]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

did you keep factory compression ratio and camshafts? Depending on what compression ratio you ended up with, how much porting or work was done to the head/valves, and a more aggressive camshaft profile, these things can also add some additional turbo lag.

Also, I would be curious to see what your boost curve looks like if you started a WOT dyno run at much lower RPM, like going WOT in the 2000-2500 rpm range. Seems all of your dyno and datalogs start the WOT pull at 3500 to 4000 rpm, so boost response likely wouldnt show as early as it might be able to.

2nd edit lol: interesting video of stock turbos on E85 vs Pure Turbos PS2+. Very interesting to see the much earlier boost response of the stock turbos and how that equates to beating a 'bigger turbo' car in a friendly highway race.

Thanks for your comment. As far as I know, the engine has complete stock compression and was simply just reinforced with stronger parts that tend to be failoints when chasing big numbers. I never intended to try and make large power in this car, but since the engine was starved of oil after the oil cooler got destroyed from debris, I figured may as well build it and upgrade the turbos. At this point, i'd prefer a stock turbo, stock internals fbo custom 93 tuned car with the hub than the other 25k of work done to this thing. Chasing numbers just costs too much money. If you want a F8x that you can daily drive and easily put over 100k miles on and drive hard, simple fbo state 2 93 ots is the sweet spot imo from a power/risk ratio.