Punctured engine block

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by DSilk

Correct. The V10 in the M5 was initially developed for use in the Sauber-BMW team's F1 race car, and the V8 that powers our M3s had 2 cylinders lopped off for size and weight considerations. Was cost-effectiveness part of the equation? There is no doubt that is cost less to lop off 2 cylinders from a thoroughly developed race engine than to produce a clean sheet V8 meeting BMW M's requirements. The inline 6 in the e46 M3 was producing as much power as it could reliably produce without FI, and the M division was all about high revs and high specific output with power at the top end, which meant that more cylinders were needed.

You make it sound like bmw took a sawzall to all premanufactured v10s. Design drawings were probably changed and they probably started with a smaller block.

[deansbimmer]

The V8 and V10 only share some some basic architecture, there is quite a bit that was changed for the V8. Some significant changes/improvements and simplifications to the oiling system, VANOS, Ignition/knock control, etc.

The S85's also suffer from rod bearing issues. There were fewer S85's produced so there aren't as many in number, but I suspect the failure ratios are probably about the same. Someone that specializes in them like Jim C. or Troy J. would have more insight on that.

[srmast1]

The s85 has quite a different torque curve than the s65. S85 makes peak torque @~5500 rpm and it is not broad and flat like that of the s65, which makes peak torque at 3900 rpm. That's a 1600 rpm difference but both engines have the same redline. This gives the s85 a different character than the s65, especially when downshifting for power. The power band is narrower in the s85. I think that's a huge difference, especially if the car is a 6mt. Just imagine if the s85 developed it's peak torque at 3900 rpm? Beast...

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

I wouldn't say 100%...there are some whose bearings still look very good at six digit miles. But my opinion is, if you're going to keep the car for that long anyway, just do it and go to sleep better for it.

Indeed you'll sleep better only if you believe that. There is no way to fix it, if there were no blown engines that had their bearings replaced it would not be a false hope. But there are.

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

Indeed you'll sleep better only if you believe that. There is no way to fix it, if there were no blown engines that had their bearings replaced it would not be false. But there are.

Thread?

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

You make it sound like bmw took a sawzall to all premanufactured v10s. Design drawings were probably changed and they probably started with a smaller block.

It's not that simple, but the V8 was derived from the V10 in much the same manner as GM's V6 was derived from its V8. The BMW V8 and V10 share bore and stroke measurements (which means they share pistons and connecting rods), cylinder bank angle, and construction material. They obviously cannot share crankshafts, since offset and firing sequence are different, but they share the same basic block design. Both engine blocks were built in the same engine facility (the one dedicated to BMW's Formula 1 engine production).

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by k3silk

Known issue with our cars 2008-2013 get the red bearing fix costing anywhere from 2000-3000 and you are all set. Unfortunately for you it destroyed the engine before you got a chance to take care of this. Hopefully BMW NA can Goodwill or help out with some of the cost.

They're giving us run around (as expected)... idk what next option is

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

^ 2008 with 100k+ miles. I don’t see bmw doing a damn thing about this

Correct

[r0cketm0nkey]

Isn't there a 30 day warranty from your dealership at least? They practically sold you a time bomb on wheels. You might want to defer to a lawyer to weigh your options.

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

Isn't there a 30 day warranty from your dealership at least? They practically sold you a time bomb on wheels. You might want to defer to a lawyer to weigh your options.

We have a 50-50 warranty (I cover half he covers half)... so yes if we put a used engine we pay half half .. but I wanna reverse the deal to be honest

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by yeah_knee

We have a 50-50 warranty (I cover half he covers half)... so yes if we put a used engine we pay half half .. but I wanna reverse the deal to be honest

I'm no lawyer, but if the 50/50 warranty is in writing, it might be difficult on your side to argue for reversing the transaction. Usually that's reserved for cars returned within 3 days (yours was 4), or if it's a lemon. Again, I'd defer to a lawyer for your best course of action.

You could alternatively drop in a used engine, but by then you might as well replace the rod bearings before you drop it in, and enjoy it for a while...or just sell it for what you paid for it. I imagine you would lose out some cash on the latter. Good luck either way.

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

I'm no lawyer, but if the 50/50 warranty is in writing, it might be difficult on your side to argue for reversing the transaction. Usually that's reserved for cars returned within 3 days (yours was 4), or if it's a lemon. Again, I'd defer to a lawyer for your best course of action.

You could alternatively drop in a used engine, but by then you might as well replace the rod bearings before you drop it in, and enjoy it for a while...or just sell it for what you paid for it. I imagine you would lose out some cash on the latter. Good luck either way.

Had another meeting with the dealership. Looks like we're going to do an engine rebuild. Replace the engine block and put new engine components that need to be replaced. They're being cooperative and told me I'm only responsible for 1/3 and they will cover the 2/3 of the job. That's my best bet right now.

[BOOF-M3]

Would you care to tell us how they came up with the % of responsibility?

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Would you care to tell us how they came up with the % of responsibility?

Initially I signed a warranty for 50-50 for the first month... but due to this situation they're giving me a 33-66 deal for the job that needs to be done.

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by yeah_knee

Initially I signed a warranty for 50-50 for the first month... but due to this situation they're giving me a 33-66 deal for the job that needs to be done.

That seems fair.

[decimation1]

Isn't a new short block from BMW around $20K (if you can find one) + labor to swap all components and install?

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by decimation1

Isn't a new short block from BMW around $20K (if you can find one) + labor to swap all components and install?

I priced out a short block last week and they said 8300, long block was 20ish I recall. I'm going to have to cross a similar bridge soon. Main bearing totally destroyed with worn rod bearings...

They=bmw

[decimation1]

Originally Posted by Duk996

I priced out a short block last week and they said 8300, long block was 20ish I recall. I'm going to have to cross a similar bridge soon. Main bearing totally destroyed with worn rod bearings...

They=bmw

Short block is including just the block, crank, pistons, oil pan and pump? Or does that come with the heads and timed too?

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by decimation1

Short block is including just the block, crank, pistons, oil pan and pump? Or does that come with the heads and timed too?

Def. no heads, not sure about pump and whatnot. Def block, crank, and pistons. I'm learning about this all too FYI.

[decimation1]

Here's a couple realoem.com links....

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4110

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4109

[yeah_knee]

Originally Posted by DSilk

That seems fair.

Ya he found an engine block for 3k... and then they're going to start replacing broken components

[yeah_knee]

An engine rebuild can only be beneficial in the end right? I've been advised to sell it after I fix it but I want to enjoy it a little bit hahah everyone is worried I will still have issues down the line