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BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) F1 Champion

View Poll Results: Who will be 2010 F1 Champion?
Alonso 38 61.29%
Weber 19 30.65%
Vettel 5 8.06%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-09-2010, 07:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
If Hamilton is leading and Webber is behind him he will definitely let him pass to win the WDC. There is no lost love between Hamilton and Alonso.
I see no reason why Hamilton would do that. I think the beef between Hamilton and Alonso is over with. At least on Hamilton's side. He won't throw away a win to change the WDC standing when he isn't even a part of it anymore. He will win for his own sake. Also, I doubt Hamilton is any more friendly with Webber after he ran him off the track so many times.

As far as history of F1 in general, nothing but WDC matters. But in terms of looking at a specific driver I would say getting 2nd or 3rd does matter in off years.

As for who will win I'll be with Hamilton 'til the end, but Alonso has the points and Red Bull has the pace. If Hamilton ends up in P3 or higher with alonso P4 or below, we will see a internal Red Bull fight. No doubt in my mind.
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      11-09-2010, 07:06 PM   #24
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One other note, RBR has set themselves up pretty cleanly regarding team orders by putting it on the drivers to make the decision. You can bet there will be some radio chat 2-3 laps before the end about grid position and possible outcome.

Whether it will get aired or not is another story.
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      11-09-2010, 07:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I see no reason why Hamilton would do that. I think the beef between Hamilton and Alonso is over with. At least on Hamilton's side. He won't throw away a win to change the WDC standing when he isn't even a part of it anymore. He will win for his own sake. Also, I doubt Hamilton is any more friendly with Webber after he ran him off the track so many times.
I think he would... again. See Montreal '08
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      11-09-2010, 08:01 PM   #26
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If Vettel were to just let Webber by and Webber won WDC, wouldn't that be just as illegitimate as Alonso?
He'd just be cancelling Alonso's cheating in Germany, like somebody else said . It'd be fantastic if that happened , to hopefully disuade cheating. But somebody would get fined, just like Ferrari, right? I can't see anybody other than Vettel doing that, as they'd have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

But to answer the OP's question, if MW was let pass from 3rd to 2nd (from LH, for instance) to win the WDC over SV, then yes, that'd be an illegitimate WDC title indeed. My guess is SV would NOT let anybody pass, and that's just the way it should be. It's not selfish or anything. It's freaking racing. Nobody should let anybody pass, period. Everything is rigged nowadays; why can't racing stay pure?

Last edited by JCtx; 11-10-2010 at 12:07 AM..
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      11-09-2010, 08:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
If Vettel were to just let Webber by and Webber won WDC, wouldn't that be just as illegitimate as AlonsoIt'd just be cancelling Alonso's cheating in Germany, like somebody else said . It'd be fantastic if that happened , to hopefully disuade cheating. But somebody would get fined, just like Ferrari, right? I can't see anybody other than Vettel doing that, as they'd have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

But to answer the OP's question, if MW was let pass from 3rd to 2nd to win the WDC over SV, for example, then yes, that'd be an illegitimate WDC win indeed. My guess is SV would NOT let anybody pass, and that's just the way it should be. It's not selfish or anything. It's freaking racing. Nobody should let anybody pass, period.
From a purely moral perspective, I can't disagree. But from a pragmatic perspective, Red Bull are being foolish.

Formula 1 never was, and never has been, about who deserves to win or which WDC was more 'fairly won' than the other. Ultimately, the driver and team which use the best tactics, have the quickest and most reliable car, and have the quickest and most reliable driver, will have the edge. If Red Bull lose the WDC (and yes, it really was theirs to lose this year), no one will remember them for their 'fair' tactics or impartial team attitude. People will only remember the WDC winner, and vaguely remember who the other major competitors were.

To put things into context: how many people remember the runner-up in 2002? How many people remember that highest ranked non-Ferrari driver was Montoya?

In my mind, Red Bull are making a grave mistake by not prioritizing drivers.
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      11-09-2010, 09:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
In my mind, Red Bull are making a grave mistake by not prioritizing drivers.
Lets see what happens next Sunday. Just because Horner said there won't be a Team Order to force it, doesn't mean it won't happen. Saying that your drivers have the team's best interest in mind is almost just as good as a team order. Just more politically correct.
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      11-09-2010, 09:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I think he would... again. See Montreal '08
Hamilton won the WDC in 2008. I don't see how your point is in any way relevant to mine since mine was under the pretense that Hamilton was no longer in contention for the title this year. Please re-read my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
+1

I still remember the Canadian GP of '08. Hamilton couldn't get past Kimi on the circuit so he "accidentally" hits him in the pits... when the light was clearly red. And that was the *only* reason BMW Sauber got that 1-2 win. If not for that, they would've been fortunate to get on the podium.
You also have brought up Montreal 2008 before when trying to find fault with Hamilton. Since you refuse to believe it was just an accident, perhaps you could help clarify what you think the real cause of his accident was. You posted not too long ago that it was because he couldn't pass Raikkonen, and it reads as a completely different justification for your argument then.
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      11-10-2010, 12:12 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Lets see what happens next Sunday. Just because Horner said there won't be a Team Order to force it, doesn't mean it won't happen. Saying that your drivers have the team's best interest in mind is almost just as good as a team order. Just more politically correct.
RedBull has proved that are more than capable of creating a championship car. If they can't win it this year, its all down to the driver, with their over aggressiveness, mistakes, stepping in each others toes and unlucky-ness.
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      11-10-2010, 12:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Hamilton won the WDC in 2008. I don't see how your point is in any way relevant to mine since mine was under the pretense that Hamilton was no longer in contention for the title this year. Please re-read my post.



You also have brought up Montreal 2008 before when trying to find fault with Hamilton. Since you refuse to believe it was just an accident, perhaps you could help clarify what you think the real cause of his accident was. You posted not too long ago that it was because he couldn't pass Raikkonen, and it reads as a completely different justification for your argument then.
For Hamilton to ram off Kimi in Canadian GP 2008 is a bit far fetched theory. He cannot pass Kimi doesn't mean he has to lose 8 points to himself, without knowing who he will be fighting at the end (ends up to me Massa instead).
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      11-10-2010, 12:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Lets see what happens next Sunday. Just because Horner said there won't be a Team Order to force it, doesn't mean it won't happen. Saying that your drivers have the team's best interest in mind is almost just as good as a team order. Just more politically correct.
If Christian Horner and the Race Engineers stick with the "no team order" principle. They will provide track position at the moment to the drivers and let them to decide the best interest to themselves and their teammates.
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      11-10-2010, 12:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
From a purely moral perspective, I can't disagree. But from a pragmatic perspective, Red Bull are being foolish.
You make pretty compelling arguments, but at the end of the day, it's still cheating. The end justifies the means. And remember it's still illegal . And I happen to think Horner, for example, will always be regarded as an altruistic guy in the sport. And I bet that's important for him. He did things right, even when it was against his interests; THAT's never easy. But he'll sleep at night like a baby . Some people can cheat on their wives like nothing happened. Others feel guilty. And the best just don't do it, regardless of temptation. THAT last is the hardest man, but few people respect us. The cheaters have all the fun . But I wouldn't have it any other way (23 years and counting); don't want that example for my kids, but that's just me. Alonso may very well win the title, but I have zero respect for the guy. Is he a talented driver? Hell yes. But respect for him? None. He has the 'win at any cost' mentality I so much detest. And Ferrari is the same way .

Anyway, seems like it depends on character how people vote on this controversial issue . Just like oil discussions, nobody is going to win. Let's see what the hell happens in a few days . Take care man.

Last edited by JCtx; 11-10-2010 at 12:35 AM..
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      11-10-2010, 03:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
If Hamilton is leading and Webber is behind him he will definitely let him pass to win the WDC. There is no lost love between Hamilton and Alonso.
You are kidding right?

That kid Hamilton would never give a win away. His ego is too large.
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      11-10-2010, 05:11 AM   #35
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      11-10-2010, 07:00 AM   #36
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im thinking mw will win the wdc regardless of who is in front of him
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      11-10-2010, 08:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
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im thinking mw will win the wdc regardless of who is in front of him
That doesn't make any sense at all.
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      11-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
You are kidding right?

That kid Hamilton would never give a win away. His ego is too large.
He would rather keep the win and let whoever behind sort out their championship situation.
Who knows...they might all crash out...
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      11-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #39
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im thinking mw will win the wdc regardless of who is in front of him
huh what?
mind fuck statement....
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      11-10-2010, 09:18 AM   #40
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Apparently he thinks there is some voting process or something.
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      11-10-2010, 10:10 AM   #41
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im thinking mw will win the wdc regardless of who is in front of him
what if FA is in front of him, what if the other 23 cars are in front of him, your logic fails
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      11-10-2010, 10:25 AM   #42
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again, Mark Webber MUST FINISH FIRST and Fernando Alonso finish 3rd or lower for MW to win WDC!!!!!
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      11-10-2010, 10:36 AM   #43
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And MW has to crash into FA in turn one for Vettel to win.
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      11-10-2010, 10:53 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
And MW has to crash into FA in turn one for Vettel to win.
Unless Hamilton do it first...

j/k~
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