F80 M3 vs. B8 S4

[jlh335i]

fanboys everywhere.

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

He hasn't. He is just back peddling again. A few pages back the 335 was equal to the 320 in his opinion. Oh and his S4 could easily hang with any M3. Typical fence sitter.

BMW gives the same interior treatment to everything from a 320i to a 335i. If it's not an M car, you can't get nice seats, a factory limited slip on the cheap, or enough cooling to make the N54 not overheat after a few laps. So BMW puts them in an equivalence class, not me. My S4 can and will continue to hang with the M3 (old or new) at BMW and Audi events. Whenever I get around to buying a new M3 I'll be certain to get the ceramic brakes on track within the first 3000 miles I own the car. Consumers want a luxury car. This car has about $20,000 of track bits bolted to luxury bits. We'll see if it all makes sense or if it needs mods to delete the luxury, like the dual mass flywheel we spoke about.

[bmwluvr24]

The sport seats that are available for the new F30 are some of the best out there. Why not just take a look instead of running your mouth. The new F30 sport seats are nicer than the outgoing M3 seats in my opinion. And as far as your car goes.........cool story bro.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

The sport seats that are available for the new F30 are some of the best out there. Why not just take a look instead of running your mouth. The new F30 sport seats are nicer than the outgoing M3 seats in my opinion. And as far as your car goes.........cool story bro.

+1

I love the F30 sport seats. I prefer them to the current M5 seats. Grated the M5 are far more luxurious but the F30s sport seats 'fit' better and feel like they keep me in place when hard cornering.

I think larger people may not appreciate them as much as I do though. I like to put the side bolsters as tight as they can get. I let my dad drive my car and he couldn't fit with my setting, so we just loosened them up. It was pretty funny to see. "What's wrong with your seat, I cant fit, this isn't comfortable!?" He does outweigh me by 100lbs so I guess that's understandable.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

I love the F30 sport seats. I prefer them to the current M5 seats. Grated the M5 are far more luxurious but the F30s sport seats 'fit' better and feel like they keep me in place when hard cornering.

I think larger people may not appreciate them as much as I do though. I like to put the side bolsters as tight as they can get. I let my dad drive my car and he couldn't fit with my setting, so we just loosened them up. It was pretty funny to see. "What's wrong with your seat, I cant fit, this isn't comfortable!?" He does outweigh me by 100lbs so I guess that's understandable.

They certainly do pin me to the seat like you said. I love the extreme amount of bolster control too! My dad has a similar issue with my seats and it mostly comes down to egress. It is a bit difficult to exit this new car in a smooth manner, but I do love the interior a lot. I especially like the way everything is cantered towards the driver to give that cockpit feel. It is a bit awkward from the passenger seat, but I did not buy this car nor the new M3 for the passenger perspective! I am super stoked to see how the new M seats fit, but I am not worried in the least bit if I will be happy. I just hope we can get a stand alone HUD option!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

BMW gives the same interior treatment to everything from a 320i to a 335i. If it's not an M car, you can't get nice seats, a factory limited slip on the cheap, or enough cooling to make the N54 not overheat after a few laps. So BMW puts them in an equivalence class, not me. My S4 can and will continue to hang with the M3 (old or new) at BMW and Audi events. Whenever I get around to buying a new M3 I'll be certain to get the ceramic brakes on track within the first 3000 miles I own the car. Consumers want a luxury car. This car has about $20,000 of track bits bolted to luxury bits. We'll see if it all makes sense or if it needs mods to delete the luxury, like the dual mass flywheel we spoke about.

The F30 335i doesn't have a N54 engine...

In the video you posted, your S4 couldn't even hang on to a E36 M3... And no, it wasn't flying past you through a corner on slick tires as you previously suggested...

The S4 is compared with the 335i (not the M3) by most magazines doing comparison tests, like it or not. Here is one by German Sport Auto, where they score the (E90) 335i higher and declares it the winner.

http://www.sportauto.de/vergleichste...01.html?show=4

In this test the 335i has a 67,6km/h speed in the slalom test, the S4 has a 67km/h speed. On the Hockenheim circuit the S4 takes 1:16,7m and the 335i 1:17m. So, as tested by a reputable German magazine, the differences are small between the 335i and the S4.



Here is a test between the F30 335i and the S4:

http://www.sportauto.de/vergleichste...19.html?show=3

Again, the 335i wins the comparison. It's 8/10ths slower around Hockenheim but still faster in the slalom. The 335i and S4 are really closely matched when tested by a independent source that actually tests and verifies the performance of each car.



Compare the 335i and S4 times at Hockenheim with what the same magazine has clocked for the M3, RS5 and C63 AMG:

http://www.sportauto.de/vergleichste...51.html?show=2

• F30 335i: 1:17,7
• Audi S4 : 1:16,9
  
• E92 M3: 1:14,2
• C63 AMG: 1:13,6
• Audi RS5: 1:14,3

Based on the above, independent tests by a very reputable source, I seriously doubt that your S4 can keep up with a M3 if both drivers are pushing just a little bit. The S4 barely beats a 335i over a lap, but looses 3,3s per lap to a M3... (3,3s per lap on a 1:15-1:20 lap is a HUGE amount of time)

The E90 335i set a 8:26min time around the Nurburgring in a Sport Auto Supertest in 2006. That is 21s slower than the E9x M3. Since the S4 and 335i are closely matched on the track, that would also imply that the S4 will loose by 15s around the Ring compared with a M3. That is quite a lot...

http://www.sportauto.de/supertest/bm...75.html?show=2

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Based on the above, independent tests by a very reputable source, I seriously doubt that your S4 can keep up with a M3 if both drivers are pushing just a little bit. The S4 barely beats a 335i over a lap, but looses 3,3s per lap to a M3... (3,3s per lap on a 1:15-1:20 lap is a HUGE amount of time)

+1. over 3 seconds on a 1:15 lap is not "hanging". it's being left in the dust.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Brosef

+1. over 3 seconds on a 1:15 lap is not "hanging". it's being left in the dust.

The average speed around the Hockenheim track is 33,7m/s with a lap time of 1:17m (2600m/77s = 33,7m/s - 33,7m/s is 121km/h or 76MPH).

The distance a 3,3s gap equates to at a average speed of 33,7m/s - 121km/h - 76MPH is:

33,7 x 3,3 = 111,21m or 365 feet.

So, the S4 crosses the finish line approximately 111m or 365 feet behind the M3 (the M3 has a higher average speed than the S4 so the real difference will actually be different as well as that it also depends on the relative speed as the cars cross the finish line...)

[gee-m-w]

Collapse the S4 performance onto the RS5 performance. It's not that difficult to make an S4 go as fast as an RS5 or even a V8 R8. An alignment and a software tune get you most of the way there. It's 434 HP guys.

I didn't ask "what's the fastest a racecar driver can drive an 8 minute circuit in every German car". I asserted that on a 2 minute circuit like the ones in America, most advanced amateurs are only a few seconds apart. Put a sticky tire on an S4 and it runs around an M3. You don't even need to spend $80,000.

There is no certifying body for 'Ring times so it's pretty worthless to compare them. Chiefly, all of the runs should be done on similar tire like a Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The differences in tire traction are statistically significant.

I don't even want to get into models like the 328 and the 335, but here goes: the only thing great about a 328i was getting an inline 6 cylinder for under $40k - now they're playing in Audi territory and struggling to make an attractive 4 banger. The only advantage with the 335i was the steering rack and now it's been replaced by a computer. Both of BMW's advantages are gone and they're spec'd exactly like Audi. The truth is there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two auto makers. When BMW realizes it is not feasible to run over 500 HP through the rear wheels, they'll go AWD ///M cars too. But they'll be new at the game and we'll all have to suffer through them learning the technology.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The average speed around the Hockenheim track is 33,7m/s with a lap time of 1:17m (2600m/77s = 33,7m/s - 33,7m/s is 121km/h or 76MPH).

The distance a 3,3s gap equates to at a average speed of 33,7m/s - 121km/h - 76MPH is:

33,7 x 3,3 = 111,21m or 365 feet.

So, the S4 crosses the finish line approximately 111m or 365 feet behind the M3 (the M3 has a higher average speed than the S4 so the real difference will actually be different as well as that it also depends on the relative speed as the cars cross the finish line...)

Well that numb skull did say his S4 is tuned up to 400hp/tq so theoretically speaking he should hang a little bit. However his video shows otherwise.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

Collapse the S4 performance onto the RS5 performance. It's not that difficult to make an S4 go as fast as an RS5 or even a V8 R8. An alignment and a software tune get you most of the way there. It's 434 HP guys.

I didn't ask "what's the fastest a racecar driver can drive an 8 minute circuit in every German car". I asserted that on a 2 minute circuit like the ones in America, most advanced amateurs are only a few seconds apart. Put a sticky tire on an S4 and it runs around an M3. You don't even need to spend $80,000.

There is no certifying body for 'Ring times so it's pretty worthless to compare them. Chiefly, all of the runs should be done on similar tire like a Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The differences in tire traction are statistically significant.

No, there isn't any certifying body for Ring times, which is why I only used Sport Auto tests as a source. Instead of just looking up on fastestlaps.com or similar...

And when you claim that you can just do a bit of tuning and slicks and the S4 will run around a M3, that is just ridiculous... Do the same mods to the M3 and the difference will be even bigger...

And, believe it or not, on a 1:17 lap around a 2600m track, 3,3 sec is a distance of 365 feet between the two cars as they cross the finish line... That is a BIG distance!

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by Chill72

Well that numb skull did say his S4 is tuned up to 400hp/tq so theoretically speaking he should hang a little bit. However his video shows otherwise.

I can't see what he says anymore, so the problem is gone. If you don't want to get caught up in hours of consistently wrong posts, then I suggest you do the same. This kid is off his meds. Ignore button.......ENGAGE!

[gee-m-w]

We've got a bunch of people who don't drive on the track commenting on how track capable the car might be. Thanks for helping me understand guys. If one of you makes it out there I am in big trouble according to the numbers.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

I can't see what he says anymore, so the problem is gone. If you don't want to get caught up in hours of consistently wrong posts, then I suggest you do the same. This kid is off his meds. Ignore button.......ENGAGE!

Oh man. There is so much nonsense coming out of that guy/girl's keyboard that it's getting to be comical.

He/she just doesn't realize that once you own/drive an M3 no other competing car can come close...and I'm talking RS5, C63, CRS-V.

S4??? Please.

[ss134]

Gee-m-w, how sad that you have nothing better to do than try and justify how great your car is on this forum.

I'm sure your S4 is fantastic and is as fast as the new M3/M4. Do everyone a favour and go and drive it instead of boring everyone here.

I'm off to the Ferrari forum to inform them all that the new M3 with slicks, a banana in the left exhaust pipe and the armrest removed is as fast as an Enzo.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by ss134

Gee-m-w, how sad that you have nothing better to do than try and justify how great your car is on this forum.

I'm sure your S4 is fantastic and is as fast as the new M3/M4. Do everyone a favour and go and drive it instead of boring everyone here.

I'm off to the Ferrari forum to inform them all that the new M3 with slicks, a banana in the left exhaust pipe and the armrest removed is as fast as an Enzo.

Save your posts brother. Analogies fly 35,000 feet above the troll's head. And just so you know......he/she is the only person on this forum who does track days. Again, you can NOT convince a stupid person that they are stupid. They won't believe you.

[Savory]

These speculation threads are everywhere now. We need more news, or better yet, reviews lol

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by Chill72

Oh man. There is so much nonsense coming out of that guy/girl's keyboard that it's getting to be comical.

He/she just doesn't realize that once you own/drive an M3 no other competing car can come close...and I'm talking RS5, C63, CRS-V.

S4??? Please.

The biggest reasons I didn't buy an M3 in 2010:

1. Only gets 180 mile range per tank
2. 2010 model interior/exterior was near identical to my 2006 model
3. Audi didn't nickel and dime me on basic necessities like Sirius, heated seats, garage door opener, etc. It made my S4 cheaper than a 328i convertible, which I was also looking at.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

We've got a bunch of people who don't drive on the track commenting on how track capable the car might be. Thanks for helping me understand guys. If one of you makes it out there I am in big trouble according to the numbers.

Perhaps you should tell the guys at Sport Auto a thing or two about tracking then?

They use the same test facilities and drivers. That has to be one of the best sources to compare performance and lap times.

I have at least provided a source with that show the 335i and S4 does comparable lap times and that both cars are left in the dust by their M3 and RS5 counterparts.

All you have provided so far is your own opinion (and we have no knowledge of your track driving abilities, so it's hard to judge your claims based on merit) and a video showing your S4 being outpaced by a E36 M3... So, yes you allready seem to be in big trouble, proven by your own video The very least you could do is to show us some independent/reliable source that support your claim that the S4 is in M3 lap time territory.

So far we have a reliable and reputable source that contradict your lap time claims... It's up to you to prove Sport Auto wrong

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The biggest reasons I didn't buy an M3 in 2010:

1. Only gets 180 mile range per tank
2. 2010 model interior/exterior was near identical to my 2006 model
3. Audi didn't nickel and dime me on basic necessities like Sirius, heated seats, garage door opener, etc. It made my S4 cheaper than a 328i convertible, which I was also looking at.

Ok I see, so there is a little resentment on your part towards BMW. You chose another car and you have every right to do so if you feel that BMW is trying to bleed you dry. I'm not mad at you.

But why come on this message board and post S4 this or that. Are you trying to make us see the light? What is your endgame?

[mpower3330]

I think C63, RS5 are good in their own right but comparing an M3 to an S4 is laughable. The S4's direct competitor is the 335i, not m3.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

We've got a bunch of people who don't drive on the track commenting on how track capable the car might be. Thanks for helping me understand guys. If one of you makes it out there I am in big trouble according to the numbers.

That's a huge assumption. There are PLENTY of track rats on this forum. Just because they are picking apart your driving abilities (..and offering accurate performance metrics between two vehicles) doesn't mean that they don't spend time at the track themselves.

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The biggest reasons I didn't buy an M3 in 2010:

1. Only gets 180 mile range per tank
2. 2010 model interior/exterior was near identical to my 2006 model
3. Audi didn't nickel and dime me on basic necessities like Sirius, heated seats, garage door opener, etc. It made my S4 cheaper than a 328i convertible, which I was also looking at.

• Even on my worst tank I could better 180 MPG's in my E9X M3's
• Well duh! They are both 3-Series cars after all (..but there are more differences than you're willing to admit)
• So just say that you liked the price point better. Don't try to sell the S4 as being the faster car when the performance is nearly identical