BMW
X7 and XM
forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) 2014 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-25-2014, 08:59 PM   #133
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 328ihp View Post
I am a Hamilton fan and i do think he is the more skilled driver but you are also wrong.. some of the moves hamilton has done on him to defend and overtake have crossed the line and rosberg has been very conservative about it.What Rosberg did at spa was just horrible driving and he has copped criticism about it from everyone.There was simply no explanation for it and i think it was more out of frustration because hamilton overtook him fair and square and nico knew at that point he was not going to win the race.
I dunno, someone who can navigate Monaco at speeds to win an F1 race ( twice ) should easily be quick enough in the head and hands to calculate the move to avoid hitting Hamilton here, if he wants and it's a priority. If you look at Rosberg's right front wheel he does straighten up when Hamiltion changes direction to avoid getting over run by his left rear wheel. He could just have stayed there until clear, I don't think he is even at full braking power, just a bit more brake and Ham would clear in a blink of an eye. Again the brain processes these situation with lighting speed and these guys are experienced experts. The streets of Monaco for a full race demands much, much more than to avoid hitting HAM here. Furthermore he is fresh and alert at lap 2 and HAM does absolutely nothing unexpected or sudden, his driving is very predictable here. It does look like he cuts straight for the tire and his body language and comments after the race was not from someone confident in it being a 50/50 racing incident. I.e I think there's more to it than just bad driving.

Last edited by solstice; 08-25-2014 at 09:50 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2014, 10:07 PM   #134
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
154
Rep
4,528
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2020 M2 CS  [10.00]
2020 M240i  [0.00]
Hopefully karma catches up with ROS at the last race of the season.
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2014, 10:46 PM   #135
M_Six
Free Thinker
M_Six's Avatar
United_States
16537
Rep
7,447
Posts

Drives: 2016 MB GLC300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

iTrader: (0)

The sweetest irony would be to see Ricciardo take the crown at the last race.
__________________
Mark
markj.pics

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."
-UncleWede
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2014, 11:49 PM   #136
Aapparition90
Captain
Aapparition90's Avatar
Australia
193
Rep
806
Posts

Drives: 2016 lci m3 mw
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 bmw 328i  [0.00]
2012 bmw 328i  [0.00]
The problem with conspiracy story's is that there was only a 10 % chance according to the pirelli of their being a puncture and a 100% chance of nico losing his front wing and thus losing a lot of time overall in the race.Rosberg is a smart driver he would not intentionally do something that that has more risk involved for him compared to lewis.. his mind was simply clouded with frustration after being overtaken so cleanly and easily by lewis.Any lewis fan knows that from that point on unless there was a technical failure lewis had the win in the bag.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 02:02 AM   #137
Mtxzptlk
Driving Dog
Mtxzptlk's Avatar
871
Rep
1,218
Posts

Drives: 635/1815, X3M Comp
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: That somewhere over the rainbow

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
The sweetest irony would be to see Ricciardo take the crown at the last race.

Not a Red Bull fan, but I'd LOL if that happens.

RIC deserves it if he does.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 05:51 AM   #138
ptack
Brigadier General
ptack's Avatar
United_States
266
Rep
4,469
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 135i  [6.50]
It's too bad Schumi isn't well and hanging around the Mercedes team. I think he'd likely give them some quiet perspective on this, particularly about "teamwork". Any team that has 2 potential champions is going to feel like their riding two tigers, but that's what they get for wanting to double their chances. Having them at each other's throats is no surprise at all. What's surprising is Mercedes lack of professionalism in dealing with this. They should have issued both drivers strict gag orders immediately and limited their comments to "we're discussing it". Airing their laundry in public turns their team into a soap opera which will definitely not help win races, but more importantly, it reveals a lack of discipline by the team leaders. I don't expect it from the drivers, but you absolutely need it from the top or things on the track will become very dangerous indeed.
__________________
135i, SGM, Coral, Sport Package, Auto, Premium Hifi, USB/ipod, Apex EC-7s, PPK Stage II
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 05:55 AM   #139
SonnyJack
Captain
United_States
323
Rep
872
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 M3/'18 F83 M4
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Laurel, MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
The sweetest irony would be to see Ricciardo take the crown at the last race.
I could live with that.
__________________
AA Gen 2 Lvl 2 w/Meth; MagnaFlow catless x-pipe; Dinan Underdrive Pulley; VAC Coated Bearings; ARP Rod Bolts; Oil Diverter Valve; Dinan Strut Braces; Dinan Rear Toe Links; ECS Rear Trailing Arms; MCS 2-Way NR w/700F-1000R; GC Camber Plates; AKG 75D MM & 95A TM; CAE Shifter; Titan T-S5; StopTech ST60 380mm/ST40 355mm; MFactory DS; Zebulon Splitter; Zebulon 330 Rear Wing; Gutted w/Piper Motorsports Custom Cage; OMP WRC-R Seats
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 06:18 AM   #140
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
1543
Rep
4,512
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptack View Post
It's too bad Schumi isn't well and hanging around the Mercedes team. I think he'd likely give them some quiet perspective on this, particularly about "teamwork". Any team that has 2 potential champions is going to feel like their riding two tigers, but that's what they get for wanting to double their chances. Having them at each other's throats is no surprise at all. What's surprising is Mercedes lack of professionalism in dealing with this. They should have issued both drivers strict gag orders immediately and limited their comments to "we're discussing it". Airing their laundry in public turns their team into a soap opera which will definitely not help win races, but more importantly, it reveals a lack of discipline by the team leaders. I don't expect it from the drivers, but you absolutely need it from the top or things on the track will become very dangerous indeed.
I love me some Schumi but if he were there then Mercedes would be even more confused than they are now about who is in charge
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 07:56 AM   #141
Tonifyd
Lieutenant
Tonifyd's Avatar
41
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 JB E90M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Korea

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I dunno, someone who can navigate Monaco at speeds to win an F1 race ( twice ) should easily be quick enough in the head and hands to calculate the move to avoid hitting Hamilton here, if he wants and it's a priority. If you look at Rosberg's right front wheel he does straighten up when Hamiltion changes direction to avoid getting over run by his left rear wheel. He could just have stayed there until clear, I don't think he is even at full braking power, just a bit more brake and Ham would clear in a blink of an eye. Again the brain processes these situation with lighting speed and these guys are experienced experts. The streets of Monaco for a full race demands much, much more than to avoid hitting HAM here. Furthermore he is fresh and alert at lap 2 and HAM does absolutely nothing unexpected or sudden, his driving is very predictable here. It does look like he cuts straight for the tire and his body language and comments after the race was not from someone confident in it being a 50/50 racing incident. I.e I think there's more to it than just bad driving.
+ 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by ptack View Post
It's too bad Schumi isn't well and hanging around the Mercedes team. I think he'd likely give them some quiet perspective on this, particularly about "teamwork". Any team that has 2 potential champions is going to feel like their riding two tigers, but that's what they get for wanting to double their chances. Having them at each other's throats is no surprise at all. What's surprising is Mercedes lack of professionalism in dealing with this. They should have issued both drivers strict gag orders immediately and limited their comments to "we're discussing it". Airing their laundry in public turns their team into a soap opera which will definitely not help win races, but more importantly, it reveals a lack of discipline by the team leaders. I don't expect it from the drivers, but you absolutely need it from the top or things on the track will become very dangerous indeed.
Im thinking it was Schumi who gave him the idea in the first place. Just like when Vettel went from humble kid to cold and greedy.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 08:03 AM   #142
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
1543
Rep
4,512
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 954Stealth View Post
Toto Wolff:

“If Lewis has said that it’s going to be a slap on the wrist, and that there’s going to be no consequence, then he’s not aware of what consequences we can implement.”

“Today we’ve seen the limits of the slap on the wrist. Maybe the slap on the wrist is not enough,” warned the Mercedes motorsport boss.
But it won't happen right away.

"There will be no knee-jerk reaction,” Wolff said. “We have to consider what will happen. We are going to sit down with everybody and decide what to do, when everybody is in a cooler, calmer frame of mind.”

and

"We're all fans and we owe it to ourselves and everybody out there to let them race … that philosophy has ended in Mercedes losing many valuable points and we don't want to end up in Abu Dhabi, with a season where we lost the championship, be it constructors' or drivers', because we're too much race fans.

“We've probably not hit the self-destruct button yet but there is a lot at stake, and if you don't manage this properly now it could end up at that point. It's one thing enjoying great races and letting them fight with each other, but if you look like a fool at the end of the season then you haven't won anything.”
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 08:38 AM   #143
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1957
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
What we need is a leader like Ross Brawn.
Remember Malaysia last year? Although was team-order, but his reasoning was convincing and confident.

Now all I can see was PR disaster and different bosses running around.
Mercedes got a good businessman (Wolff), a good technical director (Lowe), and an experienced world champion (Lauda). What's missing is a Leader IMO.

I can actually see Brawn cover the entire issue last weekend into race incident, and asked the drivers to kept it internal before anyone shouts anything. And PR doing its work to dilute media sensation. Or divert the attention to dangerous Ferrari act of allowing mechanics on the grid after the 15 second mark. And only receive minimal penalty.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 08:40 AM   #144
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1957
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
The sweetest irony would be to see Ricciardo take the crown at the last race.
That kind-of happened before. Remember 2007 how Kimi won?
HAM and ALO was fighting neck to neck within McLaren, then at the end, Kimi caught up and won the WDC.

Never say never!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 08:53 AM   #145
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
1543
Rep
4,512
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
What we need is a leader like Ross Brawn.
Remember Malaysia last year? Although was team-order, but his reasoning was convincing and confident.

Now all I can see was PR disaster and different bosses running around.
Mercedes got a good businessman (Wolff), a good technical director (Lowe), and an experienced world champion (Lauda). What's missing is a Leader IMO.

I can actually see Brawn cover the entire issue last weekend into race incident, and asked the drivers to kept it internal before anyone shouts anything. And PR doing its work to dilute media sensation. Or divert the attention to dangerous Ferrari act of allowing mechanics on the grid after the 15 second mark. And only receive minimal penalty.
I agree with that. If HAM and Nico kept their opinions in-house, this would've been discussed, possibly penalty handed down by the FIA and that would've been that (from the outside). It's like what we saw in Canada with Massa and Perez.

But they didn't do that and allowed opining and malicious intent to spill out of the paddock. and now it's a much bigger "mess" (if you will) than it ever needed to be.

I don't think they'd bring in Schumacher even if he was healthy right now. 2 former drivers and one who raced with a current driver would create too much added confusion. Brawn might have been good now, too bad he retired
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 08:58 AM   #146
jkoral
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1016
Rep
1,960
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 LBB 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MA

iTrader: (7)

Excellent article by David Coulthard: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/28928608
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 09:02 AM   #147
spencers
Captain
Isle of Man
199
Rep
649
Posts

Drives: Sthrizzle
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I think F1 fans the world over should be thanking Rosberg if he acted intentionally. In fact, I say let the two Mercedes drivers ram each other at the start of every race. It actually makes the next hour or so of my life watching the "race", not a complete bore and snooze fest.
Yes!
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 09:07 AM   #148
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 954Stealth View Post
Brawn might have been good now, too bad he retired
He didn't actually retire, he was shuffled out so that Niki and Toto could take full control.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 09:34 AM   #149
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
1543
Rep
4,512
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
He didn't actually retire, he was shuffled out so that Niki and Toto could take full control.
too bad he "was retired"
is that better phrasing?


**********
Just found this excerpt:

But former driver and regular F1 steward Derek Warwick told British radio that even though Rosberg's driving was "silly", it is "an internal problem" for Mercedes rather than "a problem for the FIA or the stewards".

And an FIA spokesman told the Daily Mail: "The FIA will not intervene in this issue.

"Only a 'new element' that would have appeared after the results became final could justify us opening an investigation. A comment alleged to have been made in an internal briefing and later denied by the team itself does not constitute such a 'new element'," he official added.

What is clear is that what was left of the tattered relationship between Rosberg and Hamilton is now probably irreparable.

Asked if the pair can be civil for the rest of the 2014 battle, Mercedes team chairman Niki Lauda told Welt newspaper: "When I think of how the meeting went on Sunday, I doubt it.

"But this is precisely the task of the leadership team now -- to establish this relationship again."

Whatever the outcome, Bernie Ecclestone is happy.

"What it has done is created a lot of interest," he told the Indian news source PTI. "That is very good for the sport."

Last edited by 954Stealth; 08-26-2014 at 09:52 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 09:58 AM   #150
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
17346
Rep
10,597
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

I cringe every time I hear somebody talk about Hamilton being out of the Championship now. It's as if they all forgot the last race of the year is double points. One last gimmick to finish the year.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 10:05 AM   #151
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1957
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
For Bernie, just like Ryanair's boss Micharl O'Leary, there's no bad publicity.
Anything that can stir the pot, will improve awareness in the media is a good thing.

Sometimes I just don't get the FIA stewards. In the past we saw drivers being penalized with similar clumsy move like Rosberg did. Stating "Causing an avoidable collision" or just simply "Causing a collision".

Oh well, unless Mercedes decide to penalize Rosberg internally. I don't see anything will happen. Mercedes is not going to press the suicide button and give FIA any evidence when they don't needed to.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 11:13 AM   #152
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I cringe every time I hear somebody talk about Hamilton being out of the Championship now. It's as if they all forgot the last race of the year is double points. One last gimmick to finish the year.
Your exactly right.
I like both Hamilton and Rosberg - hope they get a chance to really go out after one another for the majority of a race.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 11:26 AM   #153
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Benz management has put themselves in a situation where it's pretty much impossible to not hand a significant and visual to the public punishment to Rosberg.

How do you keep your authority and respect within the team and the outside if you let it go by a slap on the wrist after the speeches post the race? You can't. Let it go and a Mercedes "unacceptable" suddenly means acceptable not only to ROS and HAM but to the rest of the world as well. It will be interesting to see what they do.

Last edited by solstice; 08-26-2014 at 11:40 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2014, 12:57 PM   #154
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
1543
Rep
4,512
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

So I guess the question now is what will they do? What type of punishment will it be?
Financial? He's been making 8, 10, 14 million a year for a while. Whatever they give him can't hurt that bad.
Withhold pay for Monza? Then what? He sandbags and hurts MB's WCC points.
They can't do anything with his endorsement deals either.
So what can they do then, take away his BlackBerry? lol

I'm very curious about this next step.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST