[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by kirkx5m

horner made the 100% right call. RBR had P2 and P3 and a bad move from webber and we coulda had both cars DNF. glad webber held position and let vettel take P2 and him P3

It was the right decision, but you can't help but feel for Webber. He had the pace at the end.

I thought Alonso and Hamilton were the drivers of the day. Hamilton flew up the order (like usual) and was unfortunate to have the fuel consumption issue. A thumbs-up as well to Rosberg, Perez, and Schumacher. Perez just seems to put in these strong, quiet drives out of nowhere.

Those of you who think Alonso was lucky - his pace was brutally quick, and he was already catching Vettel before the 2nd to last pit stop. I think it would have been a great battle between the two of them, if Vettel hadn't had the pitstop issue.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Lastly, RBR is a great team. But I find it funny at one of the few times they are in a challenging position that they fail to deliver excitement.

Vettel COULDN'T pass Hamilton to challenge Alonso because of ONE dry racing line (AND at the one point on the track where he could actually give it a go) which Hamilton defended quite well. SV ate up his tires in the process and FA was gone.
I think he delivers excitement each time he suits up. Check out the way he cares for his tires better than anyone else in the field (except maybe Perez), not to mention usually having a great strategy.
Unless you call excitement what MSC is up to as of late. 13th to 8th, penalty, back to 9th etc. Exciting, but no brains

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by johanness

Vettel COULDN'T pass Hamilton to challenge Alonso because of ONE dry racing line (AND at the one point on the track where he could actually give it a go) which Hamilton defended quite well. SV ate up his tires in the process and FA was gone.
I think he delivers excitement each time he suits up. Check out the way he cares for his tires better than anyone else in the field (except maybe Perez), not to mention usually having a great strategy.
Unless you call excitement what MSC is up to as of late. 13th to 8th, penalty, back to 9th etc. Exciting, but no brains

You said it yourself, Vettel chewed his tires up while behind Hamilton. Every car on the grid is designed with clean airflow in mind. But during a race, typically only 1 driver will get such a luxury. Today, that wasn't Vettel as he was not in the lead for the latter part of the race.

I would say probably at least 1/3 of his abilities with tire preservation are just due to the car;s down force and having clean air. Look at Mercedes to see the polar opposite. They are probably the worst on their tires of the top teams, openly admitting they have rear tire degradation issues.

[raisemyrent]

did anybody else think that the penalty on The Legend (Schumacher) was a bit harsh? maybe if he had kept going, but he got a double penalty because he had to come in for a new nose cone. So he paid for his mistake (DRS - outbreaked himself), then they give him a stop and go. By the way, hadn't seen a stop and go in ages, but the reasoning was that going through the pitlane is actually faster even with the speed limiter. Either way, a great drive back through the field, but disappointed he couldn't pass Heidfeld at the end, probably out of tyres or running out of fuel.
Anyhow, my 2 cents.

side rant - Hamilton had the same issues with the DRS a couple of times, it just didn't result in a crash. Why on earth did the FIA establish the DRS well into a corner like that, with one racing line? sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Also, this track needed a double zone.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by raisemyrent

did anybody else think that the penalty on The Legend (Schumacher) was a bit harsh? maybe if he had kept going, but he got a double penalty because he had to come in for a new nose cone. So he paid for his mistake (DRS - outbreaked himself), then they give him a stop and go. By the way, hadn't seen a stop and go in ages, but the reasoning was that going through the pitlane is actually faster even with the speed limiter. Either way, a great drive back through the field, but disappointed he couldn't pass Heidfeld at the end, probably out of tyres or running out of fuel.
Anyhow, my 2 cents.

side rant - Hamilton had the same issues with the DRS a couple of times, it just didn't result in a crash. Why on earth did the FIA establish the DRS well into a corner like that, with one racing line? sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Also, this track needed a double zone.

It was harsh, however the reason it was a stop-go and not a simple drive through is that the length of the pit lane was short and took less time than actually driving on the circuit. So, a drive-through wouldn't have really penalized him and at best would have given him back a few seconds.

The stewards also states that if any driver attempted to take advantage of the short pit lane during the race there would be a penalty.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Blake, did all the locals bad-mouthing Lewis know he had fuel issues? (From very early on it sounded, maybe up to 20 laps before the end.) Seems a bit odd that they were all annoyed at him.

oh everyone knew. most people were wearing radio headsets or headphones. but the PA announced certain team radio transmissions and it was very known. no love for RBR there amongst the british fans, obviously. they cheered more for vettel giving up the lead than anything. to my left, a couple guys from denmark that were ferrari fans, to my right and everywhere in front of me were mclaren fans, and behind me were a bunch of german vettel fans. everyone was very civil though. i was surprised at the lack of overall shit talking (there was virtually none) like there would be at any sporting event in america, especially since this was a highly contested race.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by Blake

oh everyone knew. most people were wearing radio headsets or headphones. but the PA announced certain team radio transmissions and it was very known. no love for RBR there amongst the british fans, obviously. they cheered more for vettel giving up the lead than anything. to my left, a couple guys from denmark that were ferrari fans, to my right and everywhere in front of me were mclaren fans, and behind me were a bunch of german vettel fans. everyone was very civil though. i was surprised at the lack of overall shit talking (there was virtually none) like there would be at any sporting event in america, especially since this was a highly contested race.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by raisemyrent

did anybody else think that the penalty on The Legend (Schumacher) was a bit harsh? maybe if he had kept going, but he got a double penalty because he had to come in for a new nose cone. So he paid for his mistake (DRS - outbreaked himself), then they give him a stop and go. By the way, hadn't seen a stop and go in ages, but the reasoning was that going through the pitlane is actually faster even with the speed limiter. Either way, a great drive back through the field, but disappointed he couldn't pass Heidfeld at the end, probably out of tyres or running out of fuel.
Anyhow, my 2 cents.

side rant - Hamilton had the same issues with the DRS a couple of times, it just didn't result in a crash. Why on earth did the FIA establish the DRS well into a corner like that, with one racing line? sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Also, this track needed a double zone.

Also the penalty was not judged by the result of the incident, regardless if MSC required a new nose cone or not. The incident where he collided with KOB will grant him a drive thru/stop and go penalty anyways.

For example, Vettel crashed into Button in Spa last year, SV required a new nose, but then he still need to serve his penalty when the stewards completed their investigation.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Blake

oh everyone knew. most people were wearing radio headsets or headphones. but the PA announced certain team radio transmissions and it was very known. no love for RBR there amongst the british fans, obviously. they cheered more for vettel giving up the lead than anything. to my left, a couple guys from denmark that were ferrari fans, to my right and everywhere in front of me were mclaren fans, and behind me were a bunch of german vettel fans. everyone was very civil though. i was surprised at the lack of overall shit talking (there was virtually none) like there would be at any sporting event in america, especially since this was a highly contested race.

[escobar929]

great race, FA and LH had an amazing race. Too bad for LH, McLaren didnt get the fuel right or he could have def finished in the podium.

That Ferrari really came alive when the track dried out, FA pace was nasty, even when he was due to pit, his laps were still blazing fast.

Too bad for SV, the pit crew really did him in but I cant feel too bad for a guy who is pretty much set to win this years world tittle for a second time. but i think UltimateBMW is right, the RB7 really struggles in dirty air, much more than any others. They are truly amazing in clean air but if you can somehow pass one, its very hard for them to overtake. And I dont wanna hear about how SV couldnt pass LH cause of one dry line, LH passed FA in the wet line when it was much wetter out

[E90SLAM]

.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by escobar929

great race, FA and LH had an amazing race. Too bad for LH, McLaren didnt get the fuel right or he could have def finished in the podium.

That Ferrari really came alive when the track dried out, FA pace was nasty, even when he was due to pit, his laps were still blazing fast.

Too bad for SV, the pit crew really did him in but I cant feel too bad for a guy who is pretty much set to win this years world tittle for a second time. but i think UltimateBMW is right, the RB7 really struggles in dirty air, much more than any others. They are truly amazing in clean air but if you can somehow pass one, its very hard for them to overtake. And I dont wanna hear about how SV couldnt pass LH cause of one dry line, LH passed FA in the wet line when it was much wetter out

It wasn't a dirty air issue, IMO. The red bulls were lacking in straight line speed compared to Ferrari and Mclaren in particular. This has been a trend for red bull over the past few years...probably a combination of the renault powerplant and their higher level of downforce (more drag)

[KingOfJericho]

Congrats to Ferrari for having enough influence to have the rules changed twice in the middle of a season to help them gain some ground. While other teams concentrate on technological innovation to win races, they rely on political influence. They are treated with these kid gloves just because of their historical significance to the sport. The car is not as well rounded, not as consistent, and not as technically advanced as the others so they get the rules changed to bring the other teams back to their level. It's fucking pathetic.

That being said, it wasn't the stop that caused Vettel to fall back. That cost him a few seconds, for sure, but certainly not the 20 seconds that separated the two.

[raisemyrent]

Originally Posted by johanness

Vettel COULDN'T pass Hamilton to challenge Alonso because of ONE dry racing line (AND at the one point on the track where he could actually give it a go) which Hamilton defended quite well. SV ate up his tires in the process and FA was gone.
I think he delivers excitement each time he suits up. Check out the way he cares for his tires better than anyone else in the field (except maybe Perez), not to mention usually having a great strategy.
Unless you call excitement what MSC is up to as of late. 13th to 8th, penalty, back to 9th etc. Exciting, but no brains

MSC: well, what do you mean brains? or do you mean because he ran into KOB? I think his start was exciting, somewhere in the spray he passed about 4 cars, including what must have been a clueless teammate. Also, the pass on Petrov was brilliant, Hamilton did it and everyone got excited. Schumacher does stuff like that sometimes, and people go like 'oh'. Then after the crash he came back through the field, mostly off camera, in the dry with a Mercedes that is not that good. So yeah, disappointing, but exciting IMO.

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Also the penalty was not judged by the result of the incident, regardless if MSC required a new nose cone or not. The incident where he collided with KOB will grant him a drive thru/stop and go penalty anyways.

For example, Vettel crashed into Button in Spa last year, SV required a new nose, but then he still need to serve his penalty when the stewards completed their investigation.

true enough. thanks

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Congrats to Ferrari for having enough influence to have the rules changed twice in the middle of a season to help them gain some ground. While other teams concentrate on technological innovation to win races, they rely on political influence. They are treated with these kid gloves just because of their historical significance to the sport. The car is not as well rounded, not as consistent, and not as technically advanced as the others so they get the rules changed to bring the other teams back to their level. It's fucking pathetic.

The Ferrari has been great on pace since Monaco. Two podiums and qualifying second and third at the other race. You don't really think it was solely Ferrari that influenced the rule change do you?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

The Ferrari has been great on pace since Monaco. Two podiums and qualifying second and third at the other race. You don't really think it was solely Ferrari that influenced the rule change do you?

There have been several seasons as of late where Ferrari has been outclassed technically by other teams and then magically halfway through the season the advantage get banned.

Think of the Brawn GP car, the RB6 and RB7 for recent examples and any win ing Lotus or Williams car from the 1960s on.

Colin Chapman made the first mid engined F1 car...Ferrari bitched, then they copied it

Lotus made first use of the engine as a structural component...Ferrari bitched then decided to copy it

Tyrell made a 6 wheeled car...Ferrari bitched, car was banned

Ferrari bithes and the rules are changed, or they simply copy the design. It's a pattern.

When was the last time that Ferrari came out with a tech that was so much better than the competitions that it was banned?

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Congrats, you just the won The Most Unintelligent Post of the Thread Award!!!

The Ferrari has been great on pace since Monaco. Two podiums and qualifying second and third at the other race. You don't really think it was solely Ferrari that influenced the rule change do you?

Completely unnecessary and reported.

As far as what I posted, this was discussed by the commentators on Speed during the race about how every time another team comes up with something really creative and within the current rules, a few races later after Ferrari has trouble getting their version of said innovation to work, it's magically banned. Coincidence? I don't think so. As BrokenVert just posted, it's been happening for years. Oh, and Jean Todt, the former CEO of Ferrari and employee for 15 years, is the current head of the FIA. Nothing shady there at all...

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Oh, and Jean Todt, the former CEO of Ferrari and employee for 15 years, is the current head of the FIA. Nothing shady there at all...

LOL. Tru dat!

[xbook]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Congrats to Ferrari for having enough influence to have the rules changed twice in the middle of a season to help them gain some ground. While other teams concentrate on technological innovation to win races, they rely on political influence. They are treated with these kid gloves just because of their historical significance to the sport. The car is not as well rounded, not as consistent, and not as technically advanced as the others so they get the rules changed to bring the other teams back to their level. It's fucking pathetic.

That being said, it wasn't the stop that caused Vettel to fall back. That cost him a few seconds, for sure, but certainly not the 20 seconds that separated the two.

Wow, cynical much? That is one dumb comment, it is pure speculation and not rooted in any fact whatsoever.

Ferrari were just the better team on Sunday. Did you watch live timing during the race? Did you see the Alonso was significantly faster once the track started drying out? Setup has a whole lot to do with how a 1300 pound car handles. Set it up with too much of a bias towards handling in the wet and you'll be slow in the dry. Set it up for handling in the dry, and you'll be screwed when it gets wet.

How about giving credit where credit is due, rather than slag the winning driver.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

When was the last time that Ferrari came out with a tech that was so much better than the competitions that it was banned?

To name a few; 2007 Movable floors. 2006 Flexing wings.

Teams always find clever loopholes in the rules, then other teams who didn't come up with it either copy it or try to get the rule "clarified" to remove the advantage. As of late, Renault had the mass dampers, Ferrari the movable floors/wings, Brawn the double decker diffuser, McLaren the F-Duct, Red Bull the flexing front wing, Renault the blown diffuser... I'm sure I'm missing a few notable ones.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by xbook

Wow, cynical much? That is one dumb comment, it is pure speculation and not rooted in any fact whatsoever.

Ferrari were just the better team on Sunday. Did you watch live timing during the race? Did you see the Alonso was significantly faster once the track started drying out? Setup has a whole lot to do with how a 1300 pound car handles. Set it up with too much of a bias towards handling in the wet and you'll be slow in the dry. Set it up for handling in the dry, and you'll be screwed when it gets wet.

How about giving credit where credit is due, rather than slag the winning driver.

I'm not slagging the winning driver one bit. If you read my whole post you would see that i pointed out how it was more than the bobble in the pits that caused RB to lose pace. I am definitely calling out the FIA and their clear bias when it comes to the success of the Ferrari team. They have a staggering amount of influence and it comes to light every season. Again, this is not a feeling unique to me. Speed quietly whispered it during their coverage on Sunday as well and I am simply agreeing with them.

Think about it though, you've got two teams (Mclaren and Red Bull) who have similar innovations that lead to increased race success over another team that happens to have a great deal of influence at the highest levels of the powers that be. Instead of waiting until the end of the season to write up clearer rules, they are changed between races leaving no time to realistically rethink their clearly better technology. The whole thing stinks to high hell, but hey, I'm just the village idiot apparently.

Is the wool getting itchy?

[KingOfJericho]

This article and this article might be of some interest to those who think I'm making things up.