[Taktix1]

Can't wait for the first person to post on here that their dealership has the fix lol. Having the car be at the dealership but not being able to pick it up truly sucks.

[Ace6180G07]

Originally Posted by joerockt

I really doubt this. They can't sell any X7's until this is fixed. Would think they have engineers working 24x7 to do so. My GF's X7 arrived last Friday, she was going to pick it up Sat morning and got the call. Bank financing was already locked in and she had to pickup the check otherwise her interest rate would for sure go up. Horrible timing

You should read the post I replied to. It was taken to mean I don’t think it’s going to be late October. I believe it will be much quicker.

[joerockt]

Originally Posted by Ace6180G07

You should read the post I replied to. It was taken to mean I don’t think it’s going to be late October. I believe it will be much quicker.

Ah gotcha, read what you wrote again. Yeah, fingers crossed.

[3to5toX5toX7]

Mine did flip to Stop Sale this morning after being on a truck for a couple days. Left QC last Monday, dispatched Saturday. Stop sale this morning.

[coolerbythelake]

I called and spoke with BMW's Consumer Relations folks today to ask a few questions. Giant grain of salt here as they're not able to officially confirm or deny anything. A few takeaways:

One of my thoughts was with mine and others like me, is there any wiggle room because my vehicle was produced after the 20th? There isn't. The dates are not all encompassing; some builds may fall outside of the date range provided. They suspect that recall was written on the 20th and those were just the dates listed. The rep said that while normally recalls are VIN specific (this one still is) and don't always apply to every vehicle, when it's software he highly suspects it will apply to every single 2023 X7 produced up until the moment a software update is released, which makes sense. The factory doesn't have some secret software update that they've been applying since 9/21 and not releasing to the dealers.

I asked if from his experience he thinks BMW will hold newly built vehicles there in QC or release. He said he suspects BMW will continue to release vehicles because the dealer will be able to update the software quicker versus creating a backlog at the factory.

Again he couldn't confirm anything but did say it looks like all X7s nationwide are impacted so the thought is that this is a very high priority for them. I brought up the specific verbiage from the document posted, that they expect a fix "later in October." Sounds like it could be quicker or it could be longer but that it would be quicker if he had to guess.

I asked if we have any recourse in the meantime. He said there's really nothing we can do. A recall automatically triggers a stop sale as federal law prohibits a new vehicle from being sold to a customer with an open recall. Kind of frustrating that a recall would be issued with no resolution, especially one that isn't a huge safety concern (though I'm sure there are some who would disagree with me on this). He said we should have our CAs and Sales Managers be sure to send emails to their regional reps expressing concern for the timeline and pressing for a quicker resolution. Mine already did this on Friday. Dealer also told me I'm one of seven X7 orders currently sitting on their lot unable to be sold with more incoming.

[danbone7]

It looks like the stop sale in October/November of 2021 took about a month to resolve itself. ARGH.

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1867624

[lcd123]

Originally Posted by Ace6180G07

Not going to be late October for the fix. And you run the risk of getting held up in QC again.

My build date was 9/6.. still in QC….

Do you think it will be sooner on the fix? Actual recall says "Software is expected to be available later in October."

[Taktix1]

Originally Posted by danbone7

It looks like the stop sale in October/November of 2021 took about a month to resolve itself. ARGH.

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1867624

yikes, looks like it took 6 weeks. I have until nov 15th before my rate lock expires, looks like there's a possibility it might reach that point if this doesnt get resolved sooner.

[lcd123]

Originally Posted by Ace6180G07

Not going to be late October for the fix. And you run the risk of getting held up in QC again.

My build date was 9/6.. still in QC….

Do you think it will be sooner on the fix? Actual recall says "Software is expected to be available later in October."

[coolerbythelake]

Originally Posted by danbone7

It looks like the stop sale in October/November of 2021 took about a month to resolve itself. ARGH.

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1867624

Hopefully it won't take that long. That stop sale looks to have involved parts whereas this one is software. But I never downplay BMW's ability to take its time so who knows.

I don't know what's involved in the resolution for this one but I definitely lean towards it happening sooner rather than later.

[Ace6180G07]

Originally Posted by lcd123

Do you think it will be sooner on the fix? Actual recall says "Software is expected to be available later in October."

I do… and here is why. Once the vehicle leaves the plant it goes into the receiving dealers floor plan. Once it’s on the dealers floor plan the dealer starts paying daily interest on the vehicle until it is sold. Keep in mind that the amount of money the dealers pay is interest only. They do not assume the whole value of the car. Just pay the interest on… let’s say 100k per day. It’s really not that much. But it does add up.

In this stop sale they can not complete any transactions (with X7’s) therefore they are paying money to their funding bank (not BMW because each dealer is a franchise) each day the vehicle sits on the lot. I am now dealing with the general manager for my dealership. My car is still in QC. However he said he’s been on the phone all day with BMW headquarters in NJ to try to get this escalated before the end of October.

So it’s unlikely that this will be a month. I’m sure every dealer is screaming right now and taking heat from all the people that ordered their X7 and it’s now in and they can’t have it.

Also since it’s just a software revision it should be quick. I’m sure the feds will have to sign off on it also. And that’s where the delay could be.

[coolerbythelake]

Originally Posted by Ace6180G07

I do… and here is why. Once the vehicle leaves the plant it goes into the receiving dealers floor plan. Once it’s on the dealers floor plan the dealer starts paying daily interest on the vehicle until it is sold. Keep in mind that the amount of money the dealers pay is interest only. They do not assume the whole value of the car. Just pay the interest on… let’s say 100k per day. It’s really not that much. But it does add up.

In this stop sale they can not complete any transactions (with X7’s) therefore they are paying money to their funding bank (not BMW because each dealer is a franchise) each day the vehicle sits on the lot. I am now dealing with the general manager for my dealership. My car is still in QC. However he said he’s been on the phone all day with BMW headquarters in NJ to try to get this escalated before the end of October.

So it’s unlikely that this will be a month. I’m sure every dealer is screaming right now and taking heat from all the people that ordered their X7 and it’s now in and they can’t have it.

Also since it’s just a software revision it should be quick. I’m sure the reds will have to sign off on it also. And that’s where the delay could be.

I never thought about the floor plan and the financials involved on the dealer's side. That's an excellent point. I'm with you, I think the fix happens sooner than they're eluding to. I guarantee BMW is hearing from nearly all of their US Dealers.

[lcd123]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure they're scrambling.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Ace6180G07

I do… and here is why. Once the vehicle leaves the plant it goes into the receiving dealers floor plan. Once it’s on the dealers floor plan the dealer starts paying daily interest on the vehicle until it is sold. Keep in mind that the amount of money the dealers pay is interest only. They do not assume the whole value of the car. Just pay the interest on… let’s say 100k per day. It’s really not that much. But it does add up.

In this stop sale they can not complete any transactions (with X7’s) therefore they are paying money to their funding bank (not BMW because each dealer is a franchise) each day the vehicle sits on the lot. I am now dealing with the general manager for my dealership. My car is still in QC. However he said he’s been on the phone all day with BMW headquarters in NJ to try to get this escalated before the end of October.

So it’s unlikely that this will be a month. I’m sure every dealer is screaming right now and taking heat from all the people that ordered their X7 and it’s now in and they can’t have it.

Also since it’s just a software revision it should be quick. I’m sure the feds will have to sign off on it also. And that’s where the delay could be.

last year bmw had a stop sale due to a software issue and the crash safety module, so NHTSA was involved. that took a month (10/18-11/16) for the fix to be available. i believe someone linked to that issue in this thread.
i suspect that having NHTSA or whomever is the gov agency to sign off will make this not as quick as the 10 days or so it took for bmw to write software for the no touchscreen cars last year.

as for the financing end, i thought bmwfs or one of its arms provided dealer financing, their notes have been securitized under BMW Floorplan Master Owner Trust . either way they would comp the dealers for the stop sale costs in terms of financing.

[coolerbythelake]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

last year bmw had a stop sale due to a software issue and the crash safety module, so NHTSA was involved. that took a month (10/18-11/16) for the fix to be available. i believe someone linked to that issue in this thread.
i suspect that having NHTSA or whomever is the gov agency to sign off will make this not as quick as the 10 days or so it took for bmw to write software for the no touchscreen cars last year.

as for the financing end, i thought bmwfs or one of its arms provided dealer financing, their notes have been securitized under BMW Floorplan Master Owner Trust . either way they would comp the dealers for the stop sale costs in terms of financing.

You're correct. I skimmed that post and started seeing parts being ordered but didn't notice there was in fact a software fix available at the end. I hope that was one of those last resort options but who knows. It isn't like BMW communicates the details with us. Any idea of if the NHTSA is involved as an approving party in the case of a voluntary recall? I found this listed as an FAQ on their website:

Do Manufacturers Ever Initiate Recalls Without a
Government Order?

Yes. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA. Through their own tests, inspection procedures, and information-gathering systems, manufacturers often discover that a safety defect exists or that the requirements of a Federal safety standard have not been met. The manufacturer is obligated to report such findings to NHTSA and take appropriate action to correct the problem. However, as vehicles age with use, certain design and performance problems may occur that prompt vehicle owners to file complaints with NHTSA. The many reports received by the public form the basis for NHTSA’s defect investigations, which often result in significant safety recalls.

^I wonder what their involvement is for something like this and what approval, if any, they give before BMW releases an update to their dealers?

[srix7]

Originally Posted by coolerbythelake

You're correct. I skimmed that post and started seeing parts being ordered but didn't notice there was in fact a software fix available at the end. I hope that was one of those last resort options but who knows. It isn't like BMW communicates the details with us. Any idea of if the NHTSA is involved as an approving party in the case of a voluntary recall? I found this listed as an FAQ on their website:

Do Manufacturers Ever Initiate Recalls Without a
Government Order?

Yes. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA. Through their own tests, inspection procedures, and information-gathering systems, manufacturers often discover that a safety defect exists or that the requirements of a Federal safety standard have not been met. The manufacturer is obligated to report such findings to NHTSA and take appropriate action to correct the problem. However, as vehicles age with use, certain design and performance problems may occur that prompt vehicle owners to file complaints with NHTSA. The many reports received by the public form the basis for NHTSA’s defect investigations, which often result in significant safety recalls.

^I wonder what their involvement is for something like this and what approval, if any, they give before BMW releases an update to their dealers?

The recall notice says the issue was found in QC, not necessarily detected by NHTSA and this is a voluntary recall for not complying with the rules. Not sure if that means they need an approval for the fix. Does NHTSA test and certify every part/software ?

[RecklessOne]

Pretty horrendous showing for BMW on this issue. I understand recalls that involve parts that wear over time or conditions that are only met in the real world.

This is just outright incompetence on the part of the manufacturer…

I’m guessing this is why so many cars were held up in QC but who knows.

[danbone7]

Pretty much a disaster at this point.

[GeorgiaBMWFan]

Originally Posted by RecklessOne

Pretty horrendous showing for BMW on this issue. I understand recalls that involve parts that wear over time or conditions that are only met in the real world.

This is just outright incompetence on the part of the manufacturer…

I'm guessing this is why so many cars were held up in QC but who knows.

Agreed. This has to be the reason for the crazy long QC issues.

[SHARMAATL]

My car just hit QC with a prod date of today. We'll see if it progresses any more.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by RecklessOne

Pretty horrendous showing for BMW on this issue. I understand recalls that involve parts that wear over time or conditions that are only met in the real world.

This is just outright incompetence on the part of the manufacturer…

I’m guessing this is why so many cars were held up in QC but who knows.

QC holds were, from all accounts, due to parts shortages. and atrocious (from the end user perspective) parts allocations

if this was the cause of the QC holds, they would not have been able to release them, since they still dont have a fix. and you wouldn't have had some cars that breezed through qc while others sat for varying amounts of time. they also would not have taken this long to find the issue and report it to NHTSA, there were cars in QC hold for 30+ days (and there are still cars) if it was this issue, all cars would be released at this point to be held at the dealer for the software update. its many times faster to, if its the software issue, just send the cars to the dealer and let them update in the field. you have X dealers with multiple diagnostic heads that can do updates.

[RecklessOne]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

QC holds were, from all accounts, due to parts shortages. and atrocious (from the end user perspective) parts allocations

if this was the cause of the QC holds, they would not have been able to release them, since they still dont have a fix. and you wouldn't have had some cars that breezed through qc while others sat for varying amounts of time. they also would not have taken this long to find the issue and report it to NHTSA, there were cars in QC hold for 30+ days (and there are still cars) if it was this issue, all cars would be released at this point to be held at the dealer for the software update. its many times faster to, if its the software issue, just send the cars to the dealer and let them update in the field. you have X dealers with multiple diagnostic heads that can do updates.

Fair point... the rollout seems like it's been a total disaster. Not sure if this is typical for BMW.

[somewhat in jest] I believe there is an easy fix for the issue -- pull the fuse for the daytime running lights. They are not mandated in the US. No DRL = no interactions with the turn signals to worry about. Put the fuse back in when the software is ready.