chipped 335i as fast as M3?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SteelTorque

Award for Post of the Month!

Chipped M3?

How much hp does your NA V8 get from a "chip"?

Show me. Post some facts/tests/times.

Looks like he did just that.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Looks like he did just that.

Yep, just follow the link above!

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by Mack211

I think its funny that people think they keep a warranty when they go with Dinan. They loose the BMW warranty and Dinan picks up the warranty on their parts. The problem with this is BMW will ALWAYS try to blame it on the after market mod and then Dinan will claim their product had nothing to do with the problem. You will end up at a stand still with you paying for the repair out of pocket. (This happens with the BMW 'Extended warranty' as well)

Either way a small court fee might be less than say a new Engine...

[kyoko]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

The 335i with a piggyback does not accelerate the same as the M3. The numbers are close, sure, but the power delivery is so flat on the 335i. The M you got to rev.
Also, does the M3 come with the shitty runflats? Have the 335 change it's tires to some real rubber and watch those figures change. I'd take the M over the 3 any day, but the M certainly doesn't dominate the piggybacked 3.

I'll make this easy. I was pointing out a few things:

1- The differences in numbers based on a STOCK M3 VS STOCK 335. (A baseline) Of course AFTER you modify your vehicle its performance will change. You are saying change the tires to make the numbers better? Perhaps someone should run a test with identical rubber. That wasn't the point. I was simply pointing out the differences in STOCK VS STOCK. What you get from the factory. Then we can assess what adding a chip will do.

2- Pointing out that after you add the chip, the only thing that will change is the acceleration of the 335. The other areas the chip will not help you out in. (Braking/Handling/etc) Remember this is after all "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)", which I think we all agree the answer is YES(For a straight line). A Chipped 335 can be as fast/faster than an M3. Then people got on about straight line vs tracking or take it to the twisties... Then the answer to "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)" is a little different. Then it becomes at what cost does it take to modify a 335i to outperform the M3 in all categories.

3- PERFORMANCE means different things to different people. Some people like to get fast drag times, others like to track their cars, gas milage, reliability, warranty, bang for buck, others like XYZ. So again this is subjective. What brings a smile to your face, might not bring a smile to the next guys face. There are areas where the 335i will outshine the M3 just like there are areas where the M3 will outshine the 335i. It all comes down to what's your definition of Performance and how you value each area that defines performance and how these two cars stack up.

So for you to say that the 335i is faster than the M3, using your parameters, you think so and if someone uses theirs they think not.

If you really want to have an argument over which vehicle is faster, it's probably better to get the lot of you together, and define what parameters define performance, then go out there and do the tests and acquire the data to see which one really is faster.

Otherwise... It's really pointless to continue this...

The main point of the post was:
Drive whatever brings a smile to your face. I drive a '01 325ci. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. It performs perfectly for what I need it to do.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by kyoko

I'll make this easy. I was pointing out a few things:

1- The differences in numbers based on a STOCK M3 VS STOCK 335. (A baseline) Of course AFTER you modify your vehicle its performance will change. You are saying change the tires to make the numbers better? Perhaps someone should run a test with identical rubber. That wasn't the point. I was simply pointing out the differences in STOCK VS STOCK. What you get from the factory. Then we can assess what adding a chip will do.

2- Pointing out that after you add the chip, the only thing that will change is the acceleration of the 335. The other areas the chip will not help you out in. (Braking/Handling/etc) Remember this is after all "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)", which I think we all agree the answer is YES(For a straight line). A Chipped 335 can be as fast/faster than an M3. Then people got on about straight line vs tracking or take it to the twisties... Then the answer to "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)" is a little different. Then it becomes at what cost does it take to modify a 335i to outperform the M3 in all categories.

3- PERFORMANCE means different things to different people. Some people like to get fast drag times, others like to track their cars, gas milage, reliability, warranty, bang for buck, others like XYZ. So again this is subjective. What brings a smile to your face, might not bring a smile to the next guys face. There are areas where the 335i will outshine the M3 just like there are areas where the M3 will outshine the 335i. It all comes down to what's your definition of Performance and how you value each area that defines performance and how these two cars stack up.

So for you to say that the 335i is faster than the M3, using your parameters, you think so and if someone uses theirs they think not.

If you really want to have an argument over which vehicle is faster, it's probably better to get the lot of you together, and define what parameters define performance, then go out there and do the tests and acquire the data to see which one really is faster.

Otherwise... It's really pointless to continue this...

The main point of the post was:
Drive whatever brings a smile to your face. I drive a '01 325ci. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. It performs perfectly for what I need it to do.

Well said!! Thanks!

[Artz 330]

well, after thinking the M3 would actually beat a tuned 335i...

...this is what happen to me in my (Just chipped) 135i.

A guy that lives a few blocks from me has an E60 M5, I saw him on the highway the other day and came up behind him. He saw me and he punched it, I did as well. He got about 1/2 a car head start on me from 60 MPH, by 100MPH I was dead even with him. After that I started to pull on him. I thought he might have been in P400 ( I was shocked ) he wasnt he was in P500. Spoke to him earlier today, he was as shocked as I was. The next day after that I was driving to Philly and spotted a guy (Mid 30's) driving his M6 like an ass. Clean highway almost no one for the next mile. I pursed him and got next to him. At 80 MPH we both take off and hit 130mph I gained a good 1 1/4 car on him. We slowed down and he smiled and gave me the thumbs up. Than we slowed down to 60 MPH and did it again. this time we hit 150 and the out come was almost the same. That night i told my buddy about it and he didnt beleive me. (This is where it got interesting) He wanted to run me with his Kawi Ninja 636. I agreed and we went on the highway. We did 2 runs from 40 to 155mph where i hit the limiter. Both runs we were dead even the whole entire way.... Wow...

I have seen the vids of the M3 getting its ass handed to it by M5's and M6's so I strongly beleive the M3 will loose to a tuned 335i.

[KonigsTiger]

Wow!! That 135 sure is fast. Makes sense given light weight and say 365 bhp?

[Artz 330]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Wow!! That 135 sure is fast. Makes sense given light weight and say 365 bhp?

we are gonna dyno soon. But from what I am being told its more like 360-385 WHP.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Artz 330

we are gonna dyno soon. But from what I am being told its more like 360-385 WHP.

Yes, I think your right, I read about a Dinan software with intercooler etc... that can produce an amazing +/- 400bhp on the 335, don't see how that would be different on the 135.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by kyoko

I'll make this easy. I was pointing out a few things:

1- The differences in numbers based on a STOCK M3 VS STOCK 335. (A baseline) Of course AFTER you modify your vehicle its performance will change. You are saying change the tires to make the numbers better? Perhaps someone should run a test with identical rubber. That wasn't the point. I was simply pointing out the differences in STOCK VS STOCK. What you get from the factory. Then we can assess what adding a chip will do.

2- Pointing out that after you add the chip, the only thing that will change is the acceleration of the 335. The other areas the chip will not help you out in. (Braking/Handling/etc) Remember this is after all "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)", which I think we all agree the answer is YES(For a straight line). A Chipped 335 can be as fast/faster than an M3. Then people got on about straight line vs tracking or take it to the twisties... Then the answer to "chipped 335i as fast as m3(Stock)" is a little different. Then it becomes at what cost does it take to modify a 335i to outperform the M3 in all categories.

3- PERFORMANCE means different things to different people. Some people like to get fast drag times, others like to track their cars, gas milage, reliability, warranty, bang for buck, others like XYZ. So again this is subjective. What brings a smile to your face, might not bring a smile to the next guys face. There are areas where the 335i will outshine the M3 just like there are areas where the M3 will outshine the 335i. It all comes down to what's your definition of Performance and how you value each area that defines performance and how these two cars stack up.

So for you to say that the 335i is faster than the M3, using your parameters, you think so and if someone uses theirs they think not.

If you really want to have an argument over which vehicle is faster, it's probably better to get the lot of you together, and define what parameters define performance, then go out there and do the tests and acquire the data to see which one really is faster.

Otherwise... It's really pointless to continue this...

The main point of the post was:
Drive whatever brings a smile to your face. I drive a '01 325ci. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. It performs perfectly for what I need it to do.

Never said that the 335i was faster than the M3 in any respect. Faster can mean so many things, which you have pointed out.

1) Understood, a test with identical tires would narrow the gap somewhat, the runflats are crap.

2) Totally agree.

3) Agreed, performance has to be defined.

-This whole thread is a testament to both cars. The standard 3 was never similar to the "performance" of the M3 until now.

[ferrari6891]

i always had my opinion that no matter how fast a chipped 335i/xi may be, it will never ever ever feel like an M3..or an M for that matter..it just wont

[OBI_agent]

Originally Posted by Artz 330

well, after thinking the M3 would actually beat a tuned 335i...

...this is what happen to me in my (Just chipped) 135i.

A guy that lives a few blocks from me has an E60 M5, I saw him on the highway the other day and came up behind him. He saw me and he punched it, I did as well. He got about 1/2 a car head start on me from 60 MPH, by 100MPH I was dead even with him................

I think you posted a video before racing with some other 335i procede vs your 335i helix.......I would suggest you make another one with your 135i racing your new found friend who has a m5.....
Not that I dont believe you(135i) but I don't believe in highway races because sometimes the other person doesnt know your racing or not.
Just my suggestion.

[ihyln]

Originally Posted by addy85

the warranty thing sucks, wish bmw would just make a tune that didnt cost 40k also lol

I think the warranty issue is due to how close the M3 and 335i come in performance. It's not like the tunes magically appeared a few months ago, although, it did take some time to develop and proliferate through to the users I think BMW is doing this to protect the M3 brand right now. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but it sorta makes sense.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ihyln

I think the warranty issue is due to how close the M3 and 335i come in performance. It's not like the tunes magically appeared a few months ago, although, it did take some time to develop and proliferate through to the users I think BMW is doing this to protect the M3 brand right now. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but it sorta makes sense.

Possible ihyln, but its also important to keep in mind that there were folks on E90Post with modded 335i's who had engine problems but then removed their piggy back and tried to get them fixed under warranty. Some succeeded I believe. This may not be common but as more claims like this came in, BMW probably got tired of being taken for a ride. So BMW is just trying to protect themselves against this.

[footie]

Tune your car and the responsibility should fall with the owner and the tuning company, not the manufacturer. The car is designed to cope with the specced output, not with an extra 30~50% as in some cases, the clutch, gearbox, diff, in fact everything from the engine to the things that moves because of it shouldn't be covered if the car is tuned.

Call me a killjoy but I feel that is what the M3 was designed for, to fill that gap for those interested in a bit more performance. Like seriously, who here believes BMW should foot the bill for someone fucking up their car because they tuned it.

Be a man and except your responsibilities for your actions.

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by footie

Tune your car and the responsibility should fall with the owner and the tuning company, not the manufacturer. The car is designed to cope with the specced output, not with an extra 30~50% as in some cases, the clutch, gearbox, diff, in fact everything from the engine to the things that moves because of it shouldn't be covered if the car is tuned.

Call me a killjoy but I feel that is what the M3 was designed for, to fill that gap for those interested in a bit more performance. Like seriously, who here believes BMW should foot the bill for someone fucking up their car because they tuned it.

Be a man and except your responsibilities for your actions.

Word, I seriously get a little upset when I read posts about guys promoting piggybacks and other similar "tunes" for the 335/135 and how they can be removed easily to fool the dealer and keep their warranty if any engine issues arise.

If you decide to tune your car, you should be man enough to accept responsibility for engine issues that may have been caused by the tune...

Jason

[Artz 330]

Originally Posted by OBI_agent

I think you posted a video before racing with some other 335i procede vs your 335i helix.......I would suggest you make another one with your 135i racing your new found friend who has a m5.....
Not that I dont believe you(135i) but I don't believe in highway races because sometimes the other person doesnt know your racing or not.
Just my suggestion.

He was on it, he saw me comin up behind him.. He lives like 2 blocks from me, next time I see him outside im gonna ask him. Would love to make a vid.

Heres a quick pick of my car gettng ready for the aka rally.

Mods so far...

Helix Attache, H&R Race Springs, GTS-R Wheels.
This coming week: FMIC, Intake, Downpipes, Forged DV's and possibly an exhuast depending on how much power I put down and how loud the car is with the DP's

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Artz 330

He was on it, he saw me comin up behind him.. He lives like 2 blocks from me, next time I see him outside im gonna ask him. Would love to make a vid.

Heres a quick pick of my car gettng ready for the aka rally.

Mods so far...

Helix Attache, H&R Race Springs, GTS-R Wheels.
This coming week: FMIC, Intake, Downpipes, Forged DV's and possibly an exhuast depending on how much power I put down and how loud the car is with the DP's

Now that looks like it means business!

[th3Stig]

That is the baddest 135i I've ever seen. Chipped _35i will beat a new M3 hands down... now why must this thread go on FOREVER?!?!

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Here is the reality. The simple answer is "YES" a chipped 335i can be as fast as an M3 in a straight line.

The reality is that the chip also brings with it a voided warrenty (if your honest), frequent limp modes (check out the FI section of E90post.com), and questionable reliability over the life of the car. And, you are still left with a car that looks like the other 200,000+ 335i's and 328's (I guess some would like that).

To make a 335i on par with an M3 (in my opinion)...You would need to go the Dinan software route ($2000) which requires the Dinan oil cooler ($2000) but comes with Dinans engine warrenty. However, the Dinan tune is a milder tune and the car would still struggle to keep up with the M3 so you would need the stage 2 which includes an Intercooler (another $2000) and the exhaust (another 1-2K) as well as the install costs (probably $500 at this point). Then to have a unique looking 335 you would at least need the Aero kit ($2000?). After that you have to consider the fact that the 335i still wont keep up with the M3 at the track but a new coilover suspension ($2000) might help with that. Then, at the very least, you would need to switch from run flats to a real performance tire ($1500).... in the end I figured I would have spent at least $12,000 on upgrades alone and that doesnt include aftermarket wheels an LSD or any paint work that might be required. So basically I would have spent at least 62K (give or take a few K) on my ideal 335i. I am telling you all this because I struggled with the 335i vs. M3 argument. I have also driven both, the M3 is far and away a different car.

In the end I figure I get all the speed of a chipped 335i with better handling and more aggresive looks, along with a full warrenty and factory reliability for what amounts to a small premium over a fully modded 335i.

And, dont forget, if you just want a fast car, buy an 89 Mustang 5.0 and put a supercharger on it.

Jason

Give me 12k and I could find the parts to make the 335i faster than an M3. I wouldn't want one as much as an M3, but to make a vehicle with par performance, I dunno, say 8-10k.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

Give me 12k and I could find the parts to make the 335i faster than an M3. I wouldn't want one as much as an M3, but to make a vehicle with par performance, I dunno, say 8-10k.

It is poor etiquette to bump a thread this old. Especially when its a 335 owner doing it on M3post to promote the 335. Just very poor form.

Regardless, give me 12k, and you will be nowhere near my M3.

[Advskier]

Put 12 grand into a mustang (or WRX) and how will it do against a 335 stock?
The only difference is those cars are made for mods, and if you want a fast BMW you can buy one from the factory..... they have M's on them.