How do I learn how to drive my M4 properly on a track?

[Sean@PSI]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

HPDE is the best option for the initial learning, IMHO.

+1

[SteveSpy]

And this is why I started this post... I don't want to end up like this guy..

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018691

[FTS]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

And this is why I started this post... I don't want to end up like this guy..

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018691

I don't think that has anything to do with your situation. You can watch hundreds of crash vids and convince yourself that being at the track is too dangerous. Then again, you can also watch more vids of crashes on the street and ... you know where that leads.

We teach all about red mist, being in over your head and many other mental aspects of driving, but at the end it is up to the driver to listen and execute

[SteveSpy]

Originally Posted by FTS

I don't think that has anything to do with your situation. You can watch hundreds of crash vids and convince yourself that being at the track is too dangerous. Then again, you can also watch more vids of crashes on the street and ... you know where that leads.

We teach all about red mist, being in over your head and many other mental aspects of driving, but at the end it is up to the driver to listen and execute

I'm not saying that I won't go to the track because of this, I'm saying that I want to be well prepared before I go to the track...

[PrimeBMW]

Quote: "I'm not saying that I won't go to the track because of this, I'm saying that I want to be well prepared before I go to the track..."

I think a car control clinic is good start. But then there is nothing better than the real thing. Specific training or training for the specific activity you are going to do. Go in with the mindset to learn........and that you currently don't know what you don't know. You will look back in 5 track days.....20 track days and you perception will be completely different. Listen and learn the good and bad things you see at the track. Try to hang out with the guys/gals and instructors that are doing it right. Safe, proper technique and don’t forget proper maintenance. Now just go do it!

[dim635csi]

Car Control Clinic will give you initial feeling - they usually do Slalom, Braking and Skidpad with instructor sitting right to you, no helmet or comm harness required. Our BMW CCA chapter has it as prereq for HPDE.

You'll usually need Snell certified helmet for HPDE.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

I'm not saying that I won't go to the track because of this, I'm saying that I want to be well prepared before I go to the track...

M5 crashed because his ego got the best of him not letting the GT2 Porsche pass him. Started driving over his head. You'll be fine, just realize you're there to learn and let quicker guys by you.

[nsxpowered]

Any of you have problems with the seats not being able to hold you in position during high G cornering?

[Blue92]

I will add another vote for the 2 Day Performance Center M School! Believe me, all of their instructors will be able to show you how to find the limits in "your" car. They are there to help you learn and have fun at the same time. The elements you practice on day 1 will be combined on the track for day 2. They also practice a lot of lead-follow drills (it is very helpful to know that the car you are following is 100% on the correct line). Since you are driving one of their cars that is essentially the same as yours, the experience is apples to apples. Now, the best part... complete this school and you are eligible to attend the Advanced Schools held at VIR and/or Road Atlanta. Again, these will be lead-follow exercises in "your" car. Best of luck along your road to knowledge. All you need is time and money

[nicknaz]

+1 for driving school

sign up for a less crowded event, leave electronics on, be conservative with the entry speed when you enter corners

should be fine

[pkimM3r]

autox is good but I don't think full road course events and autox are too similar. autox will help you gain car control at low speed.

i started with bmw cca and an instructor where in every event they let me drive solo for the last session. learned the basic techniques and the things not to do eg. pinching.

then i went to events with buddies and applied what i learned.

then i took dsc and practiced getting the car to slide around more and power sliding and counter steering.

will continue to grow....its about growing your skillset not about hammering it and letting the car do the work for you in the name of lap times. i'm slower than my friends but as my skills develop in no time i will be gaining them bahaha

[consolidated]

Join trackjunkies.com and read up. It's a TX group, hardcore DE'ers, club racers, AX, car people.

No one will listen but best advice is to learn to drive a smaller, lower HP car hard, much easier to transition up...it's the quickest way to get good and get fast. When I get a green student in a 911 Turbo or Z06 it's harder to instruct and harder to learn....for most.

For the occasional DE drive whatever.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Join trackjunkies.com and read up. It's a TX group, hardcore DE'ers, club racers, AX, car people.

No one will listen but best advice is to learn to drive a smaller, lower HP car hard, much easier to transition up...it's the quickest way to get good and get fast. When I get a green student in a 911 Turbo or Z06 it's harder to instruct and harder to learn....for most.

For the occasional DE drive whatever.

damn! finally decided to try going to a track once he bought a 911 TURBO. classic.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Join trackjunkies.com and read up. It's a TX group, hardcore DE'ers, club racers, AX, car people.

No one will listen but best advice is to learn to drive a smaller, lower HP car hard, much easier to transition up...it's the quickest way to get good and get fast. When I get a green student in a 911 Turbo or Z06 it's harder to instruct and harder to learn....for most.

For the occasional DE drive whatever.

Completely agree, and completely did not do this myself haha

I started in an m3 which has hampered my improvement. Things get fast on the track and it's easy to get away with point and shoot style driving when slower cars reward you more for taking better and more consistent lines and maintaining speed in the corners. It's also a lot easier to learn car control in a less powerful rwd car

If I could do it again and afford to have two cars id start with an s2000, which is probably borderline too fast anyeay

[pkimM3r]

i learned dsc off in the e90 and its so easy to control.

[IN54NITY]

1) http://www.tejaschapter.org/ tell 'em #425119 sent you

2) Stop worrying about it and do it. Sign up now.

3) Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets and More Speed Secrets, want more? Going Faster by Carl Lopez. Even more? Drive to Win by Carrol Smith is one of my faves.

4) Start driving with "high eyes" and building S.A. right now, yes, even in traffic, that means you're looking not at the ass end of the car in front of you, but maybe 12, 39, 100 cars in front of you so you are always anticipating instead of reacting to what's going around you. Pretend you can see around corners. Know that the F150 3 cars back in the other lane is an aggressive driver.

5) Start driving in the streets smoothly right now. That means doing stuff like coming off the brake really smoothly, like a passenger couldn't tell when you came off the brake, but maybe they could kinda tell when you squeezed them on. Squeeze on the gas, roll off the gas. (See so many beginners coming off the gas pedal like it's burning the bottom of their foot.) Make smooth turn ins and turn outs.

6) Watch lots and lots and lots youtubes of other (HPDE or race, doesn't matter) drivers driving your track so you know ~ so you definitely know ~ what direction the next turn is and if it has any elevation changes, and maybe you can pick out camber. (Camber can be hard to tell in vids.)

You don't even have to know what an apex is, but if you practice this stuff starting ~right~ now (no need to break any laws, it all applies even to the 25mph curve), read one or two of those books, and leave your ego at the gate: You will have an especially good time on your first track day. Your instructor may even have a good time.

Edit and P.S. I bet Tejas BMWCCA will do something at http://www.texasworldspeedway.com/ before COTA, do that

[SteveSpy]

Originally Posted by aleckzandr

1) http://www.tejaschapter.org/ tell 'em #425119 sent you

2) Stop worrying about it and do it. Sign up now.

3) Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets and More Speed Secrets, want more? Going Faster by Carl Lopez. Even more? Drive to Win by Carrol Smith is one of my faves.

4) Start driving with "high eyes" and building S.A. right now, yes, even in traffic, that means you're looking not at the ass end of the car in front of you, but maybe 12, 39, 100 cars in front of you so you are always anticipating instead of reacting to what's going around you. Pretend you can see around corners. Know that the F150 3 cars back in the other lane is an aggressive driver.

5) Start driving in the streets smoothly right now. That means doing stuff like coming off the brake really smoothly, like a passenger couldn't tell when you came off the brake, but maybe they could kinda tell when you squeezed them on. Squeeze on the gas, roll off the gas. (See so many beginners coming off the gas pedal like it's burning the bottom of their foot.) Make smooth turn ins and turn outs.

6) Watch lots and lots and lots youtubes of other (HPDE or race, doesn't matter) drivers driving your track so you know ~ so you definitely know ~ what direction the next turn is and if it has any elevation changes, and maybe you can pick out camber. (Camber can be hard to tell in vids.)

You don't even have to know what an apex is, but if you practice this stuff starting ~right~ now (no need to break any laws, it all applies even to the 25mph curve), read one or two of those books, and leave your ego at the gate: You will have an especially good time on your first track day. Your instructor may even have a good time.

Edit and P.S. I bet Tejas BMWCCA will do something at http://www.texasworldspeedway.com/ before COTA, do that

Thanks for the great advice. I already signed up for tejas chapter, and intend to sign up for track days whenever they are announced. I like the reading a book idea though, this is fascinating. I just don't think that the book will do me as much good as the practical experience.

[IN54NITY]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

Thanks for the great advice. I already signed up for tejas chapter, and intend to sign up for track days whenever they are announced. I like the reading a book idea though, this is fascinating. I just don't think that the book will do me as much good as the practical experience.

There is no substitute for seat time, but reading will help you learn the "why" and gain a bigger picture so you can more easily put it all together when you ~do~ have seat time. Start with Speed Secrets (one can easily read it in three days) and then Going Faster! They just go over basic stuff, but believe me, if you do the basics really well and do them consistently without consciously having to think about what you are doing, you will be a very good driver.

[Chadfugi]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

I want to learn how to drive properly to be able to drive at COTA, I don't want to learn at COTA, that's my whole point!! Our event at COTA is in March of 2015 and I want to be ready for it...

Me too !! let me know what u find out I have an M4 coming in Oct and I will b living in Austin by then as well. I've been on a track a few times but I'd hate to mess up my new baby !

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I agree the new car may not be the best car to learn how to drive on the track. That torque wall paired to a twitchy throttle will be a barrier, or will require running with DSC on all the time, which is intrusive on the new car even in street driving. I feel it would steal a lot of the fun, but I also didn't enjoy the GTR. I mean, it was fun, but not as fun as wrestling the car under control. So YMMV.

From what some F8X folks here are saying, the entire E9X forum is on suicide watch and taking any offer you give them on their cars. Grab an old E9x as your beater track car.

huh? i love my e90 on track! we must be crazy not having dedicated track cars!

but to OP - stop listening to all this whining about a $70k car on a track. there are plenty of e9x out there going hard and there are plenty of f8x already on track not to mention ppl in 100k+ sports cars - its all about YOU.

start with events that require you to have instruction. real instruction like with cca and the likes, not to be confused with an hpde organization who has some dude whos been with them for a while "instruct" you (well there are good drivers out there but typically cca folks have been doing it for 20 some odd years and play it safe).

YOU know your own skill. you leave your ego at home. you listen in the classroom and your instructor and learn proper technique. you start slow, you gradually get faster as your skillset grows. its not about laptimes. its about learning car control and technique. dont forget track etiquette as that is often times totally ignored by beginners. I have videos of ppl stopping in the middle of the track because they were black flagged, have ppl causing traffic worse than the 405/101 junction because they weren't around of their surroundings, ppl drag racing me down the straight in their high hp monsters after giving me a pass, ppl getting out of their cars on the track?!, etc

you can drive with dsc on or mdm on but you still wont learn shit on how to properly control a car since it corrects itself like magic. I've learned a lot more on car control in 3 events with dsc off than in 2 years with mdm on (make sure you try these things in wide open spaces with no walls and plenty of runoff and not in traffic). know your runoffs at the track. know where it is safe to play around with throttle and steering in case of a spin that both you and your car are safe.

that being said, dont go jumping into it with all this sliding and recovering at first, rather work on building up your skill and guaranteed you will become faster than others just mashing their cars with all the nannies on in the near future. i should have turned off the nannies a long time ago. its fun as heck!

just keep in mind that you are not as good of a driver as you think, and that you want to actually drive your car back home from the event. those are my priorities when i go to a track day

if you play it safe and smart you will have a blast.

go to the track section on m3post for e9x there is a shit ton of info. i cant believe theres only like 10 threads in this section?!