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      Yesterday, 12:58 AM   #1
rjabend
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Tesla Self Driving

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Looks like Elon is engaging at a hefty price with actual hands-free driving.

https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/03/tesla...will-trust-it/
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      Yesterday, 06:10 AM   #2
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I guess the real heart of the question is ….Why do you want a fully autonomous driving car in the first place? The liabilities far outweigh any advantages.
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      Yesterday, 07:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
I guess the real heart of the question is ….Why do you want a fully autonomous driving car in the first place? The liabilities far outweigh any advantages.
I guess, at some point, self-driving vehicles could be safer than people driving. It probably already is in some specific cases
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      Yesterday, 07:50 AM   #4
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I guess we've come a long way from "The Ultimate Driving Machine", sadly............
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      Yesterday, 07:51 AM   #5
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I guess we've come a long way from "The Ultimate Driving Machine", sadly............
The "Ultimate Self-Driving Machine"
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      Yesterday, 09:16 AM   #6
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I guess, at some point, self-driving vehicles could be safer than people driving. It probably already is in some specific cases

Who do I sue when the self driving car rear ends me?
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      Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ledphut View Post
Who do I sue when the self driving car rear ends me?
Right now the driver is still responsible but in the case of true self-driving cars like Waymo, you sue the company (in this case Waymo as an example). There are discussions whether you would need your own insurance at all in that situation if all the liability is on the carmaker. Interesting discussions going on regarding legal issues around self driving cars
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      Yesterday, 09:43 AM   #8
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Tesla isn't self driving anytime soon.

A few years ago Tesla decided to remove all radar sensors and go completely with a visual camera-based system for self-driving. This likely saved Tesla a few thousand $$ per vehicle. Unfortunately, a camera-only based system will never be able to be fully self-driving. In fact, Tesla's FSD is rated at Level 2 (out of 5) for vehicle automation. Nowhere near ready.

Contrast to BMW's self driving system which includes cameras and radar sensors.

Full autonomous driving won't ever happen without LIDAR sensors included-and those are not cheap at all.
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      Yesterday, 06:34 PM   #9
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Who do I sue when the self driving car rear ends me?
I am not a Lawyer, but probably the vehicle manufacturer = my best guess.
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      Today, 08:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjabend View Post
I guess, at some point, self-driving vehicles could be safer than people driving. It probably already is in some specific cases
I 100% fully agree. Also, for highway, drive-assist as well as full self driving is already much much safer than people driving, no doubt about it especially in conservative mode.
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      Today, 08:24 AM   #11
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Yup… in fact the most recent AI-based Tesla FSD update 12.3 is insane and truly close and enough in my view to be acknowledged as the best drive assist system ever existed.

It’s almost too good that I don’t care if it improves more or not, just as good as I need it to be.

I’ve captured about 4-5 short 15 secounds examples/moments on YouTube posted by others that I thought are insane AND PROBABLY better than most human

https://youtube.com/shorts/xkl2ZmPVA...zdRyfqERRA8B6o

https://youtube.com/shorts/NxloAweI6...I4jo4syeEdZdZ-

https://youtube.com/shorts/fh4OzgtAj...5IzxnBUOuN8Jbn

https://youtube.com/shorts/ydMbqmovX...hRfJh8RXlvCuU2

https://youtube.com/shorts/fh4OzgtAj...5IzxnBUOuN8Jbn

Last edited by BMW5and7; Today at 08:29 AM..
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      Today, 11:23 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=BMW5and7;31025684]Yup… in fact the most recent AI-based Tesla FSD update 12.3 is insane and truly close and enough in my view to be acknowledged as the best drive assist system ever existed.

It’s almost too good that I don’t care if it improves more or not, just as good as I need it to be.

I’ve captured about 4-5 short 15 secounds examples/moments on YouTube posted by others that I thought are insane AND PROBABLY better than most human

Thanks - Truly Impressive!!
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      Today, 11:43 AM   #13
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The problem will be is when you are so impressed and your guard will go down, fully trusting the system and a malfunction happens. The human conditioning in getting complacent is unavoidable. That will be the ultimate stumbling block with implementing this kind of tech to the general population. How can we keep the driver still engaged and supervising is going to be tough.
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      Today, 11:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
The problem will be is when you are so impressed and your guard will go down, fully trust the system and a malfunction happens. The human conditioning in getting complacent is unavoidable. That will be the ultimate stumbling block with implementing this kind of tech to the general population.
So if the system drives better and safer than a human, isn't complacency a good thing?
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      Today, 11:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
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So if the system drives better and safer than a human, isn't complacency a good thing?
You’re assuming the system is infallible at all times, which is technically impossible. That is why overconfidence will be its downfall with implementing this to the general public.
Full autonomy verses aids like emergency collision braking are miles apart in their implementation. One steps in as an aid to help the drive compartmentalize tasks when overwhelmed or not paying attention. The other lures the driver in to relinquishing full control.
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      Today, 11:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
You’re assuming the system is infallible at all times, which is technically impossible. That is why overconfidence will be its downfall with implementing this to the general public.
Good point! Even if the system drives better than a human, a driver paying attention as a team player could improve the overall result.
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      Today, 11:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjabend View Post
Good point! Even if the system drives better than a human, a driver paying attention as a team player could improve the overall result.
That is going to be a challenge as overconfidence in its ability tends to go hand in hand with the general public. Look at the early demonstrations of people trying to take naps or get in the passenger seat just to show off. People are idiots and not to be trusted as if they are a highly trained pilot knowing how to use the tool in the right context.

It is not a bad idea for owners of fully autonomous capable vehicles to compete a mandatory training course for these features and then after completion, the tech can be turned on at that point in their vehicles.
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      Today, 12:19 PM   #18
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Lots of dead Tesla drivers that relied too heavily on the autonomous driving feature.

And then there’s the people literally asleep at the wheel…
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      Today, 01:37 PM   #19
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Taking advantage of all features of the current Tesla FSD system is only possible with vehicles that have interior cameras that monitors the driver. Driver has to be awake, looking at the road. As soon as u pick up your phone, or even look around it will star beeping at you and if u don’t listen: 1. It will stop and pull over, 2. You will get striked and will be banned from FSD for some time.

The photos shared above are all from older Tesla cars, or of which are also operating under older auto-pilot, or standard auto-pilot, not the most recent AI FSD for cars with interior camera. Even for older cars with regular standard Auto-pilot, nowadays u can’t drive long without the system asking u to keep shaking the steering wheel. There is no way on earth to go sleep like that while the system continuing to operate. People used to trick the system by installed a weigh on the wheel or a controller that adjusts volume up and down to trick the system that u are awake, all of which Tesla have completely eliminated. If someone is that STUPID to keep trying to trick the system, then I bet I’d rather be around him while FSD works than someone like that driving the car without a backup system anyway (though again that’s not possible).

I am not a big fan of FSD, but for those who are skeptical, simply one can argue that the chances someone will die while driving is of higher probability and eve riskier than the FSD system itself failing while you are alive and not yet able to take over the car. Yes I believe it’s already safer than the majority of drivers. In fact, on the highway, I have no doubt that it’s already safer when used as intended, as compared to a regular human driving the car himself.
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      Today, 01:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
That is going to be a challenge as overconfidence in its ability tends to go hand in hand with the general public. Look at the early demonstrations of people trying to take naps or get in the passenger seat just to show off. People are idiots and not to be trusted as if they are a highly trained pilot knowing how to use the tool in the right context.

It is not a bad idea for owners of fully autonomous capable vehicles to compete a mandatory training course for these features and then after completion, the tech can be turned on at that point in their vehicles.
I think the issue am seeing here on this thread that most people are just not that aware of how far the tech has come in the past few years and even just weeks. All of that has already been resolved and done already. As an example, before taking any Tesla car now for FSD, Tesla made it mandatory for the owner to go for a drive with a Tesla employee to take training on FSD before being able to use FSD when u go pick up the car your purchased. This was done just this month after the implementation of this new AI FSD system. Same for taking a nap or going to the other seat which is impossible to do now as I explained in my previous comment. We can refer to many mistakes in the past, but the technology has already truly moved forward and it’s more of an assist system with FSD characteristics. This is just good enough in my view to make roads safer.
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