[DB_Cooper]

Originally Posted by ChrisM3

Test drove the Q7 and MB 350 and 450 GLE tonight.

Q7 had the most room but the UI touchscreens/interface seemed a bit dated. Driving dynamics were pretty decent but the motor wasn’t terribly strong.

The MB was nice…quiet and tank like but the 4 banger was weak and the handling was very floaty and truck like. The six cylinder was better but the MB overall didn’t have the driving dynamics of the X5. The interior of the MB was very nicely done but again the touchscreens are annoying to use.

I’m seriously thinking about just picking up one of the last new ‘23 X5s and foregoing the 3rd row. Will have the best UI and mix of touchscreen/buttons, it handles great and good overall performance.

Will make a decision soon…

Mazda CX90. Try it out before biting the bullet on the x5/x7

[cfm56d7b]

Even with LCI changes attracting its fair share of fans and not-so-fans, X7 remains a category leader. Nice job, BMW.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

In the same boat. At some point something will be bought but the tentative list really is a Mazda CX90 (been really impressed w/ Mazda since owning a 2019 mazda3 hatch), GX (not a 3 row but bulletproof), X7 or Landcruiser/LX.

Waiting on the reviews and a demo to drive for the CX90, but I’m really optimistic.

About a month ago I bought a 2023 Mazda CX-9 due to its reliability. So far I love it. I was debating whether or not to wait for the 2024 CX-90. I decided not to wait as the first year model normally would have some issues. If the feedback from the owners is positive I can always trade my CX-9 (almost fully paid) for a CX-90. It is very impressive based on what I read about it...

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by ChrisM3

Test drove the Q7 and MB 350 and 450 GLE tonight.

Q7 had the most room but the UI touchscreens/interface seemed a bit dated. Driving dynamics were pretty decent but the motor wasn’t terribly strong.

The MB was nice…quiet and tank like but the 4 banger was weak and the handling was very floaty and truck like. The six cylinder was better but the MB overall didn’t have the driving dynamics of the X5. The interior of the MB was very nicely done but again the touchscreens are annoying to use.

I’m seriously thinking about just picking up one of the last new ‘23 X5s and foregoing the 3rd row. Will have the best UI and mix of touchscreen/buttons, it handles great and good overall performance.

Will make a decision soon…

That’s what I would do. Forget this “newer is better” idea because manufacturers are moving in a different direction with too many outside influences like future emissions standard and transitional styling. They are trying to build a better vehicle for the government and not a better vehicle long term for the customer.

[JMD]

I actually like the X7's new front-end design,...and think it adds a different look in character for the X7. As for the SG's channel,...I use to watch his channel a lot,...then I picked up on all of the snotty comments about BMWs and reviews in general, etc. His snobby and low energy reviews just weren't for me. ijs

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

Mazda CX90. Try it out before biting the bullet on the x5/x7

The only way I'd think about the XC90 instead of an X5 is if I need a PHEV. The PHEV variant in the new CX90 gets a generous EV range (enough for most facilities for in-town daily trips). However, the Mazda PHEV variant is only available with their 4-cylinder engine and can't be ordered with the 6-cylinder engine which was a big miss on Mazda's end. I think they could have attracted a lot of clients in that price range if the PHEV comes with a 6-cylinder engine (it's a family car and a higher hp power engine is a must have on an midsize SUV of that size). Their drive assist is very good, and the reliability of Mazda vehicles has always been great, but again, there are not many Mazda dealers for maintenance/service in many cities across the US so that is another issue (not as spread as Toyota). I may consider one but the wife had already decided to get an X5 instead of her 22' X7 that we finally sold 2 weeks ago.

[PinkNinja400Guy]

Originally Posted by JMD

I actually like the X7's new front-end design,...and think it adds a different look in character for the X7. As for the SG's channel,...I use to watch his channel a lot,...then I picked up on all of the snotty comments about BMWs and reviews in general, etc. His snobby and low energy reviews just weren't for me. ijs

In his "best cars of 2022" video, the (pre-LCI) X3, X5, and X7 were his choices for best small/midsize/large SUV. I think he might have also chosen some of the BMW sedans for other categories. And he also chose the iX for best sound system. And while he hated on iDrive 7 in his initial ~2019 reviews, he eventually considered it to be the best infotainment system in the industry.

So I don't think it's fair to claim that he's biased against the BMW brand itself. He personally cares about reliability, maintainability, repairability, usability, and long term value, so he touches on that in his reviews (especially in the iX video). But you can ignore those comments if those factors aren't relevant to you; the rest of his review content seems pretty balanced and reasonable to me.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by PinkNinja400Guy

In his "best cars of 2022" video, the (pre-LCI) X3, X5, and X7 were his choices for best small/midsize/large SUV. I think he might have also chosen some of the BMW sedans for other categories. And he also chose the iX for best sound system. And while he hated on iDrive 7 in his initial ~2019 reviews, he eventually considered it to be the best infotainment system in the industry.

So I don't think it's fair to claim that he's biased against the BMW brand itself. He personally cares about reliability, maintainability, repairability, usability, and long term value, so he touches on that in his reviews (especially in the iX video). But you can ignore those comments if those factors aren't relevant to you; the rest of his review content seems pretty balanced and reasonable to me.

So in other words, in four years he'll be talking about how iDrive 8 is the best infotainment system in the industry. LOL.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

That’s what I would do. Forget this “newer is better” idea because manufacturers are moving in a different direction with too many outside influences like future emissions standard and transitional styling. They are trying to build a better vehicle for the government and not a better vehicle long term for the customer.

There’s some smoke that Germany and Italy could put the skids on the movement to kill ICE in Europe. I think the world is currently reverting back to common sense, as we speak. And not in a smooth fashion. There will always be emissions regs. But hopefully they will make more sense.

[Tyriondo]

You might be disagreed, but BMW made the rest of the family look obsolete with the new split light design applied to 7 and X7 models. Even the new 2024 X5 and X6 didn't cover my visual expectation.

I believe X7 LCI front design was a small touch, but it made a huge impact to the whole BMW family.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by Tyriondo

You might be disagreed, but BMW made the rest of the family look obsolete with the new split light design applied to 7 and X7 models. Even the new 2024 X5 and X6 didn't cover my visual expectation.

I believe X7 LCI front design was a small touch, but it made a huge impact to the whole BMW family.

The flip side is if you don’t like the new look, you may now consider a X5M or more conventional BMW look and keep all 7 series off the table.

[Saejin]

I’ll jump in here having owned a 2021 M50i and now own a 2023 M60i. Had a brief affair with an Audi SQ5 in between.

Looks - I like it and that’s all that matters. I haven’t actually seen another LCI on the road yet so don’t know what it looks like in that perspective.

Everything else - it’s pretty much the same, but more refined, and less distracting to drive. I’m really starting to love the fact there are less buttons. I can basically get in and drive without having to adjust any of the climate controls which was always a thing to do in the pre-LCI. Now when it’s cold out the seat and steering wheel heaters are on automatically, then turn off when it warms up, the air temp is warmer initially, then adjusts.
Radio and entertainment all controlled via steering wheel now.

Just don’t get why everyone seems to hate the lack of buttons. It’s not perfect, but BMW is trying to get it to where you don’t have to mess with the settings to be comfortable. Isn’t that the epitome of luxury, to get in and the car just knows how everything should be set and let’s you relax.

The only reason I touch the screen now is due to Apple CarPlay.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Saejin

Everything else - it’s pretty much the same, but more refined, and less distracting to drive. I’m really starting to love the fact there are less buttons. I can basically get in and drive without having to adjust any of the climate controls which was always a thing to do in the pre-LCI. Now when it’s cold out the seat and steering wheel heaters are on automatically, then turn off when it warms up, the air temp is warmer initially, then adjusts.
Radio and entertainment all controlled via steering wheel now.

Just don’t get why everyone seems to hate the lack of buttons. It’s not perfect, but BMW is trying to get it to where you don’t have to mess with the settings to be comfortable. Isn’t that the epitome of luxury, to get in and the car just knows how everything should be set and let’s you relax.

The only reason I touch the screen now is due to Apple CarPlay.

Pre LCI automatically turns on that stuff, too. How about when you’re going 70 on the highway and want to turn on recirc? Lack of buttons absolutely sucks. Especially the lack of presets. The software is more like a computer, very distracting unless you learn the voice commands. Also glitchy. How many times did I have to try to pull down my favorites and the screen didn’t respond? Bottom line is it’s ergonomically deficient relative to preLCI.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

That’s what I would do. Forget this “newer is better” idea because manufacturers are moving in a different direction with too many outside influences like future emissions standard and transitional styling. They are trying to build a better vehicle for the government and not a better vehicle long term for the customer.

I’ve contacted my sales rep to see if we can still order a ‘23 X5. I think we’re able to through early March but waiting to hear.

The Q7 is likely the other leading option right now. Price wise it’s a bit more attractive and it comes with the 3rd row. I can’t put my finger on it but there’s something about the GLE450 that I don’t particularly like.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Pre LCI automatically turns on that stuff, too. How about when you’re going 70 on the highway and want to turn on recirc? Lack of buttons absolutely sucks. Especially the lack of presets. The software is more like a computer, very distracting unless you learn the voice commands. Also glitchy. How many times did I have to try to pull down my favorites and the screen didn’t respond? Bottom line is it’s ergonomically deficient relative to preLCI.

I feel like this will be a never-ending argument, but just want to second what Saejin had to say. I have owned my X7 for six months now and have never felt the need to search for something in the infotainment system while driving. I don't think people understand how well the automation works on the HVAC system. And you do still have physical buttons for the front and back defrosters. The temp buttons are on the screen and never hidden, so if you're a little warm you push the temp down a degree or two. That adjusts evertything. Seat heat, steering wheel heat, air temp, etc... Works awesome. Even with Apple car play I use the selecter wheel, so I barely ever touch the screen for anything. But I have to remind myself that it isn't only the X7 that has iDrive 8, all the bimmers will have this system in the next few years and then everyone will understand how well it works and stop bitching about lack of buttons.

Sidenote: Did it ever occur to anyone that the car's dashboard would look like a soviet era nuclear power plant if they tried to give you physical buttons for everything iDrive 8 can do for you? Go buy one of those old Lexus' if that's what turns you on.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

I feel like this will be a never-ending argument, but just want to second what Saejin had to say. I have owned my X7 for six months now and have never felt the need to search for something in the infotainment system while driving. I don't think people understand how well the automation works on the HVAC system. And you do still have physical buttons for the front and back defrosters. The temp buttons are on the screen and never hidden, so if you're a little warm you push the temp down a degree or two. That adjusts evertything. Seat heat, steering wheel heat, air temp, etc... Works awesome. Even with Apple car play I use the selecter wheel, so I barely ever touch the screen for anything. But I have to remind myself that it isn't only the X7 that has iDrive 8, all the bimmers will have this system in the next few years and then everyone will understand how well it works and stop bitching about lack of buttons.

Sidenote: Did it ever occur to anyone that the car's dashboard would look like a soviet era nuclear power plant if they tried to give you physical buttons for everything iDrive 8 can do for you? Go buy one of those old Lexus' if that's what turns you on.

Ok. But i had the iD8 for 9k miles. It’s livable but suboptimal. Enjoy your love affair with it and keep drinking the cool aid (cost savings for BMW, pain in the arse for us)

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by ChrisM3

I’ve contacted my sales rep to see if we can still order a ‘23 X5. I think we’re able to through early March but waiting to hear.

The Q7 is likely the other leading option right now. Price wise it’s a bit more attractive and it comes with the 3rd row. I can’t put my finger on it but there’s something about the GLE450 that I don’t particularly like.

At this point, get the vehicle you real want with all the options you want regardless of the brand. It’s not about money anymore. It’s parts shortages everywhere and every manufacturer is having major issues. The Lexus is a soulless vehicle and that is what you are feeling.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

At this point, get the vehicle you real want with all the options you want regardless of the brand. It’s not about money anymore. It’s parts shortages everywhere and every manufacturer is having major issues. The Lexus is a soulless vehicle and that is what you are feeling.

MystroX5 ... The last real Lexus they had was the 2001-2005 LS430.... The best vehicle I ever had (in it's time). Things have changed a lot since then. All it takes is one new engineer or VP, or a sudden/quick change in the a manufacturer's design language, and all of a sudden a ton of fans walk-away. In 2003/2004, Lexus hired a new design team and lead; and things changed to the worse since the introduction of the 2006/2007 vehicles. They still offer nice vehicles, but they are not reliable anymore (especially the new LS), and you feel you are driving a car that is basically a dead-body, plus most of their infotainment system stuff is a carryover from a Toyota Corolla up to Lexus LS. The 360-camear on 2023 Lexus cars alone is a shame (can't believe they still couldn't figure out a nice 360 camera system view; same crap since 2010). MBenz did the right thing by offering the weird-looking EQ-variant cars for younger or Tesla-like-fans group of people to be separate from their solid ICU cars luxury design language, but BMW is now trying to make it "one-fits-all" type of a design and it's not going to work! BMW nowadays is all about de-contenting, cost-cutting, removing features/packages, removing buttons/physical components, and looking after cheapest way of building all cars together with same parts/components.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Pre LCI automatically turns on that stuff, too. How about when you’re going 70 on the highway and want to turn on recirc? Lack of buttons absolutely sucks. Especially the lack of presets. The software is more like a computer, very distracting unless you learn the voice commands. Also glitchy. How many times did I have to try to pull down my favorites and the screen didn’t respond? Bottom line is it’s ergonomically deficient relative to preLCI.

Exactly my point. If the pre-LCI does it automatically anyway, then why the need for all the HVAC buttons. I don’t recall my 2021 being as good as my 2023 with the auto settings though. Have to agree on the recirc, but it always goes back to auto anyway and the filters are the best I’ve seen in a vehicle so no real need very often to turn it on.

And for favorites, I use the steering wheel buttons and the HUD.

I would say as the system/software gets better and most things are automatic, it will result in a safer drive as less distractions. Even the buttons cause you to take your eyes off the road sometimes.

Not saying it’s perfect now and some buttons make sense. It works for me, cleans up the dash, and overall makes for a better experience when I drive the vehicle.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Ok. But i had the iD8 for 9k miles. It’s livable but suboptimal. Enjoy your love affair with it and keep drinking the cool aid (cost savings for BMW, pain in the arse for us)

My 2021 costed the same as my 2023 with same options, so if removing the buttons allowed BMW to keep the MSRP even over a 3 year period then I thank them.

The 2024 is seeing a $4k-$6k bump in base price, no real changes except service pack and software, so guess they are catching up now.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

but BMW is now trying to make it "one-fits-all" type of a design and it's not going to work! BMW nowadays is all about de-contenting, cost-cutting, removing features/packages, removing buttons/physical components, and looking after cheapest way of building all cars together with same parts/components.

I’ve read some articles that BMW’s design language is catering more to the Chinese market especially in the lux segment. Overall BMW sales in China surpass the US by double right now and will probably grow even more over the next decade.

Specifically to the X7.
I believe a lot of the de-contenting from 2020-2021 resulted in low take rates for those options from the threads I read back then on this forum.

Think any manufacturer looks at ways to become more efficient in their product line in order to save costs and not have to pass it along to the buyer. From 2021 to 2023, X7 saw no increase in price for me with the same options, but now my 2023 comes with a new engine, new tranny, new interior screen/dash, and exterior refresh.
I’m pretty sure the engineering and design behind all of that wasn’t cheap.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by Saejin

I’ve read some articles that BMW’s design language is catering more to the Chinese market especially in the lux segment. Overall BMW sales in China surpass the US by double right now and will probably grow even more over the next decade.

Specifically to the X7.
I believe a lot of the de-contenting from 2020-2021 resulted in low take rates for those options from the threads I read back then on this forum.

Think any manufacturer looks at ways to become more efficient in their product line in order to save costs and not have to pass it along to the buyer. From 2021 to 2023, X7 saw no increase in price for me with the same options, but now my 2023 comes with a new engine, new tranny, new interior screen/dash, and exterior refresh.
I’m pretty sure the engineering and design behind all of that wasn’t cheap.

Chinese market is the biggest market for MBenz vehicles, especially the S-class and GLS. I am not surprised that it's also true for BMW.

I get the de-contenting approach, and it's good, but there are certain de-containing practices that should have never ever been adopted by BMW (one example out of many: rear-door comfort access sensor!!!). A feature that even cheapest vehicles nowadays have!.. This is just one example. Doing de-contenting is fine but BMW took it to some extreme levels. While the 7-series is getting auto-opening doors as if its a Rolls Royce , the X7 is not even getting a cheap door handle sensor than a 3-series used to have!. Let's not fool ourselves; it is still a good SUV, but it does not have the WOW factor anymore especially with the lack of packages we used to always have on luxury cars.