[Madsen203]

Originally Posted by rjabend

I'll see if I can find you a course on Respectful Disagreement.

Just want to make sure other readers are not influenced by this dudes ignorance and BS. It’s one thing to dislike ASS and the goal of eliminating pollution but it’s another to sell a load of crap to others who may be influenced in passing.

[Caveno]

Originally Posted by Madsen203

Just want to make sure other readers are not influenced by this dudes ignorance and BS. It’s one thing to dislike ASS and the goal of eliminating pollution but it’s another to sell a load of crap to others who may be influenced in passing.

Which one of my bullets is false? I admit 5 and 6 could be interpreted as opinion fine, but the rest are facts.


1) There are no alternatives to oil.
2) Electricity comes from coal and gas.
3) Your electric car isn’t much greaner, if any, than a gas car.
4) Producing lithium is terrible for the environment
5) The government wants us to depend on electric cars because they control the power plants.
6) the whole green agenda is just a gimmick to convince us to give up our rights.

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by Madsen203

All of those comments read straight from Fox News with zero basis or fact behind them except #4 which is equally as bad as the fracking to get that “plentiful” fuel you speak of.

Do TELL! If they're all false with the exception of #4 where's your documented "FACTS" stating otherwise? Here's a documented fact for number #2.

Your turn. Documented facts only please.

[streborx]

I've found most of the 176 posts in this thread informative and thought provoking. But c'mon fellas - we're all adults and we can agree to disagree without the ad hominems. Let's keep it professional and non-personal.

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by Caveno

Which one of my bullets is false? I admit 5 and 6 could be interpreted as opinion fine, but the rest are facts.


1) There are no alternatives to oil.
Oil cannot currently be replaced, but future developments could change that
2) Electricity comes from coal and gas.
And nuclear, but again, the future could be different
3) Your electric car isn’t much greaner, if any, than a gas car.
Probably true since generating electricity can come from oil and coal
4) Producing lithium is terrible for the environment
5) The government wants us to depend on electric cars because they control the power plants.
6) the whole green agenda is just a gimmick to convince us to give up our rights.

-

[Caveno]

Originally Posted by mitch57

Do TELL! If they're all false with the exception of #4 where's your documented "FACTS" stating otherwise? Here's a documented fact for number #2.

Your turn. Documented facts only please.

I’m an engineer and studied physics. So let me be clear on my generic bullet points.

1) There is no alternative to oil.
Yes, there are other energy sources. Nuclear, wind, etc. However there is not an alternative energy source cleaner than fossil fuels that is sufficient for us to maintain our standard of living. Therefore there is no alternative to oil.

2) Thank you for pointing out, yes there is more than gas and coal, nuclear and renewables. This chart is misleading I think. True we get 13% of electricity from renewables, however most of this is hydroelectric not wind/solar. We get less than 7% of our electricity from wind/solar. That’s great, but this just isn’t enough to charge our cars and heat our houses.

3) your electric car isn’t much cleaner than gas
Here is a study from Harvard - you need to drive an electric car for 28k-68k miles until you start to get any net carbon benefits. The range depending on where you get your electricity from. Most of us will fall closer to the 68k range.

Not to mention the harm to the environment non carbon related. (Too be fair same goes for oil)

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...bon-footprint/

4) lithium sucks for environment - we all agree here

5 and 6) i believe our government is chopping away at our rights. Control your healthcare, food, house, what car you drive. Fine it’s my opinion and many others. I’m American. Liberty for all.


I’m all for an alternative energy source. I generally believe in climate change. I just don’t believe we have any real solutions and creating silly rules to slightly reduce our carbon output just wastes money and engineering talent.

And for those of you say you care and “we” should change, but drive high powered gas cars, you’re a hypocrite, elitist, or just need to be guided to the right perspective.

Please BMW, let us disable ASS. I love everything about my ride except ASS

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by Caveno

When we breath we also produce CO2. We should all hold our breath when we can.

Citric acid cycle. They should ban all foods with added/excess sugar. And, overweight people contribute more to greenhouse gasses than normal BMI individuals. There are actual studies on the subject.

[JJacksonIII]

Can somebody nuke this thread now?

[blutob2]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Can somebody nuke this thread now?

What, you want to debate nukes now?

[Wiedzmin]

No nuke please, each and every potential buyer of the X7 should stumble upon this thread and think twice whether they are sure they want to buy a car without an ASS off button. BMW is not ashamed of their new feature, aren't they?

[streborx]

Originally Posted by Wiedzmin

No nuke please, each and every potential buyer of the X7 should stumble upon this thread and think twice whether they are sure they want to buy a car without an ASS off button. BMW is not ashamed of their new feature, aren't they?

You ask a very interesting question. The folks who have bought EVs and PHEVs know what form of locomotion they're purchasing (although a few have experienced an unpleasant surprise when they find out how much a Level 2 charger installation in their garage is going to cost). How many LCI buyers experienced sales associates who promoted the mild hybrid technology and its interaction with ASS as a fuel savings feature, and as a clear benefit/advantage/improvement over the pre-LCIs that were not comparably equipped? And how many buyers made their purchasing decision based on the inclusion of mild hybrid tech?

[blutob2]

Originally Posted by streborx

You ask a very interesting question. The folks who have bought EVs and PHEVs know what form of locomotion they're purchasing (although a few have experienced an unpleasant surprise when they find out how much a Level 2 charger installation in their garage is going to cost). How many LCI buyers experienced sales associates who promoted the mild hybrid technology and its interaction with ASS as a fuel savings feature, and as a clear benefit/advantage/improvement over the pre-LCIs that were not comparably equipped? And how many buyers made their purchasing decision based on the inclusion of mild hybrid tech?

Well mild hybrids actually started in the late 21s, at least for the 40i's and my 2022 has it. But looking back, I don't recall my salesman really talking about it. But then again, I researched it myself and found a dealer over 250 miles away that had one with the options I wanted already in production. When we picked it up, he went over every feature which took about an hour, and I only remember him saying it had the 48V mild hybrid but that was it. He was a great salesman and was one of the better ones I've ever had briefing and setting up all the features.

Also when researching it, we went to our local dealer, but they didn't have an X7 on the floor and we just drove the X5. They never mentioned any of those features either. and we even built one there but it was going to take several months to build. I'm sure there might be dealers that push this stuff, idk, just my experience.

Also funny, it took 6 months to realize we didn't even have the ASS button. It just never really bothered us. I never thought for once to turn it off.

In the end, we only hear mostly negatives on here and the FB forums when in reality there are countless others that don't mind this stuff. That's just how it works with everything. Heck we just passed a contract and if one was to read the forums, you would think it would fail massively. There was so much negative but really it was just the same ones. Ultimately, our contract passed with well over an 80% Yes vote.

[gsobol]

I think this entire thread is like the ASS in our cars. I really wish there was a button to turn it off .....

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by blutob2

Well mild hybrids actually started in the late 21s, at least for the 40i's and my 2022 has it. But looking back, I don't recall my salesman really talking about it. But then again, I researched it myself and found a dealer over 250 miles away that had one with the options I wanted already in production. When we picked it up, he went over every feature which took about an hour, and I only remember him saying it had the 48V mild hybrid but that was it. He was a great salesman and was one of the better ones I've ever had briefing and setting up all the features.

Also when researching it, we went to our local dealer, but they didn't have an X7 on the floor and we just drove the X5. They never mentioned any of those features either. and we even built one there but it was going to take several months to build. I'm sure there might be dealers that push this stuff, idk, just my experience.

Also funny, it took 6 months to realize we didn't even have the ASS button. It just never really bothered us. I never thought for once to turn it off.

In the end, we only hear mostly negatives on here and the FB forums when in reality there are countless others that don't mind this stuff. That's just how it works with everything. Heck we just passed a contract and if one was to read the forums, you would think it would fail massively. There was so much negative but really it was just the same ones. Ultimately, our contract passed with well over an 80% Yes vote.

You don't go to a psychologist to talk about how great your life is either. What are we supposed to talk about? How comfortable the front seat is?

[Caveno]

Originally Posted by streborx

And how many buyers made their purchasing decision based on the inclusion of mild hybrid tech?

After much research I can answer this:

0

[streborx]

Originally Posted by Caveno

After much research I can answer this:

0

Actually, the answer is at least 1. I decided to purchase my '22 X7 M50i based on the LCI having mild hybrid tech and the '22 not having it (lol).

[Caveno]

Originally Posted by streborx

Actually, the answer is at least 1. I decided to purchase my '22 X7 M50i based on the LCI having mild hybrid tech and the '22 not having it (lol).

Why?

[huskerdoc2020]

Climate change…yes it changes. The weather varies day to day. It’s also been determined that the average co2 levels since mammals walked the earth was 3x more ppm than today. We play a negligible part. It’s called a money grab and it’s working.

[G05_galore]

Originally Posted by Caveno

I hate the auto start stop. My wife has it on her x7 and I ordered a 24 760i and have anxiety thinking about it shutting off in the middle of the road. Unfortunately almost all cars do this now but also almost all cars you can code it off but not bmw.

It’s ridiculous I agree and have dealt with warm air blowing when the engine shuts off. Like I’m buying a 500+ horsepower car and care about fuel economy.

I’m thinking of canceling my order and just getting a gmc Yukon hd with a giant diesel engine instead….I don’t want to deal with auto start stop.

This 760i will compliment it better.

[streborx]

Originally Posted by Caveno

Why?

While I believe an electrically assisted ICE is conceptually sound, and the second generation mild hybrid implementation is far superior to the belt coupled scheme that was initially deployed, I still have reservations about the complexity and reliability of the 48 volt lithium power system. For now and for me, mild hybrid tech benefits don't warrant the potential problems and inconveniences.