Advice needed!!! My 2023 X7 is dead!

streborx · 08-20-2022, 09:57 AM

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

U235 · 08-20-2022, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

They’re not refusing to fix anything. You are still obligated to pay for the vehicle. Only through a court of law or other arbitrated agreement with the bank could you get unobligated from the bank.

GL · 08-20-2022, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

https://twitter.com/BadLegalTakes content here.

Orient330iNYC · 08-20-2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

please cite case law that supports your assertions.

i would especially like to know where a vehicle out of service removes a contractual obligation to make payments when the contract in question has no provision.

BMWFS will often good will waive payments, but they are under no contractual or legal obligation to do so.

and what would be the basis for suing BMWFS for filing a factual non payment report to the credit bureaus?

Do note that BMWFS does not manufacture, sell or service cars. thats a nuance that you are missing. witholding payment from BMWFS would have the same contractual impact as witholding from Chase or any other bank.
BMWNA has an obligation to repair the car and if unable to, buy back the car.

As U235 said, there are two contracts at work here with two different legal entities.

Jagu · 08-20-2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

Whoa, this is very incorrect.

3erMan · 08-22-2022, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

It's not about an obligation to pay for a defective car. The lender already paid for it. Loan payments are a result of a borrower's obligation to pay a loan debt. Secured by a defective car, in this case.

MAXKONG · 08-23-2022, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

You are wrong

mjr24 · 08-23-2022, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streborx

People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.

Keep your day job (which obviously isn't being an attorney).

mjr24 · 08-23-2022, 02:29 AM

I believe Benz also had a ton of issues with their 48V system and the same long delays/not knowing what was going on, etc......it wasn't pretty. Not sure if they have rectified it....

awesoM · 08-23-2022, 03:19 PM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Lmclaugh · 08-23-2022, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Can I asked if BMW NA was responsive and in contact with you? Aside from the initial contact, they have not returned one of my calls. I spoke to another representative by using the main number. That rep told me the customer advisor assigned to my inquiry was all over it - yet he has never called me back or provided any sort of update. I would never make a choice to default on the loan and ruin my credit. I'm a bit surprised no one at BMW has offered anything. 35 days and counting….

awesoM · 08-23-2022, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lmclaugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Can I asked if BMW NA was responsive and in contact with you? Aside from the initial contact, they have not returned one of my calls. I spoke to another representative by using the main number. That rep told me the customer advisor assigned to my inquiry was all over it - yet he has never called me back or provided any sort of update. I would never make a choice to default on the loan and ruin my credit. I'm a bit surprised no one at BMW has offered anything. 35 days and counting….

Yes they were in my case. Actually come
To think of it on the first trade assist I never called BMW dealt with the dealer directly. I would talk to the Service Manager at your dealer and be honest with them, let him know that you are not interested in the return of the vehicle and looking for a trade assist at this point. He will probably direct you to sales if he thinks you have a case. Give that a shot …

Lmclaugh · 08-23-2022, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lmclaugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Can I asked if BMW NA was responsive and in contact with you? Aside from the initial contact, they have not returned one of my calls. I spoke to another representative by using the main number. That rep told me the customer advisor assigned to my inquiry was all over it - yet he has never called me back or provided any sort of update. I would never make a choice to default on the loan and ruin my credit. I'm a bit surprised no one at BMW has offered anything. 35 days and counting….

Yes they were in my case. Actually come
To think of it on the first trade assist I never called BMW dealt with the dealer directly. I would talk to the Service Manager at your dealer and be honest with them, let him know that you are not interested in the return of the vehicle and looking for a trade assist at this point. He will probably direct you to sales if he thinks you have a case. Give that a shot …

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lmclaugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesoM

BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts.

Can I asked if BMW NA was responsive and in contact with you? Aside from the initial contact, they have not returned one of my calls. I spoke to another representative by using the main number. That rep told me the customer advisor assigned to my inquiry was all over it - yet he has never called me back or provided any sort of update. I would never make a choice to default on the loan and ruin my credit. I'm a bit surprised no one at BMW has offered anything. 35 days and counting….

Yes they were in my case. Actually come
To think of it on the first trade assist I never called BMW dealt with the dealer directly. I would talk to the Service Manager at your dealer and be honest with them, let him know that you are not interested in the return of the vehicle and looking for a trade assist at this point. He will probably direct you to sales if he thinks you have a case. Give that a shot …

Thanks. I may try it. Im really trying to be patient - just don't know how long to wait.

BMWX7m60i · 08-23-2022, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lmclaugh

Thanks. I may try it. Im really trying to be patient - just don't know how long to wait.

May I ask why you are waiting so long? Maryland Lemon Law is clear and you are past 30 days. Why not initiate the process and BMW will respond. Your dealer should also being contacting the financial division to have them send you payment reimbursement checks on your monthly payments. Suggest you take matters into you own hand and then let them react instead of waiting for them. They are not acting in your best interest. Remember that and understand the Lemon Law is there to protect you.

leightos · 08-24-2022, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lmclaugh

Can I asked if BMW NA was responsive and in contact with you? Aside from the initial contact, they have not returned one of my calls. I spoke to another representative by using the main number. That rep told me the customer advisor assigned to my inquiry was all over it - yet he has never called me back or provided any sort of update. I would never make a choice to default on the loan and ruin my credit. I'm a bit surprised no one at BMW has offered anything. 35 days and counting….

My X5 45e has been in the shop with a battery-related major fault requiring parts from Germany.
Just to add my 2 cents here - I've had great response from BMWNA. I called their service line the next day after my car went in the shop because it looked serious. Another BMWNA rep called me within 24 hours to discuss. I missed his call but called him 15 min later left a vmail. He called me within 2 min and we discussed the situation. He took notes and pushed it up a level. That new Exec level rep called me within 48 hours, and sent me an email and we've been discussing via email for 2 days.
So, my experience w/ BMWNA has been very good. Just throwing it out there because I believe they should respond and there are reps that respond immediately. My advice here is to call your rep, if you don't get thru, leave another vmail but this time to ensure he/she has your email. They may contact you that way at least. Plus, it's great to keep all this in writing.

FWIW, it's early yet for me to have final resolution. Car has been in the shop now 16 days on HV battery issues. But the parts on order are expected to take at least 3 weeks to get here, plus the full install which is a week I'm sure.

cheers

leightos · 08-27-2022, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leightos

My X5 45e has been in the shop with a battery-related major fault requiring parts from Germany.
Just to add my 2 cents here - I've had great response from BMWNA. I called their service line the next day after my car went in the shop because it looked serious. Another BMWNA rep called me within 24 hours to discuss. I missed his call but called him 15 min later left a vmail. He called me within 2 min and we discussed the situation. He took notes and pushed it up a level. That new Exec level rep called me within 48 hours, and sent me an email and we've been discussing via email for 2 days.
So, my experience w/ BMWNA has been very good. Just throwing it out there because I believe they should respond and there are reps that respond immediately. My advice here is to call your rep, if you don't get thru, leave another vmail but this time to ensure he/she has your email. They may contact you that way at least. Plus, it's great to keep all this in writing.

FWIW, it's early yet for me to have final resolution. Car has been in the shop now 16 days on HV battery issues. But the parts on order are expected to take at least 3 weeks to get here, plus the full install which is a week I'm sure.

cheers

Oops, well I cursed it. I got my estimated 4 weeks to fix from the SA on Wed: emailed BMWNA twice and called once and NO reply.

Brigitte · 09-03-2022, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leightos

Oops, well I cursed it. I got my estimated 4 weeks to fix from the SA on Wed: emailed BMWNA twice and called once and NO reply.

Anything new?

Brigitte · 09-03-2022, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancyQ

Man, good luck. We both need that. The battery or the 48v seems to have problem or maybe it's just our luck. Did you tried to talk to BMW directly (or through your dealer) about a buy back or replacement?

I texted the SA from the selling dealer. He said he has raised it to the sales manager and general manager about the situation and they will reach out to BMW NA as well to see if it can expedite things.

How long does it take for your state to get back to you if the lemon law stands in your case?

I hope you got it resolved...please keep us posted! TIA

ponylover52 · 09-03-2022, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brigitte

I hope you got it resolved...please keep us posted! TIA

Wonder why literally every auto maker doing new 48V hybrid systems are having issues. Mercedes, Volvo, and now BMW. Part issue? Or bmw software coding issue? You think something this big failing so quickly would be caught in final testing of preproduction vehicles.

Brigitte · 09-03-2022, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponylover52

Wonder why literally every auto maker doing new 48V hybrid systems are having issues. Mercedes, Volvo, and now BMW. Part issue? Or bmw software coding issue? You think something this big failing so quickly would be caught in final testing of preproduction vehicles.

Another person had the same battery issue. The dealer replaced it with a new battery..

Here is the thread about it:

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1947391

leightos · 09-09-2022, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brigitte

Anything new?

Still same status with my 45e. Waiting on parts, been 3 weeks. No word on that. Been in touch many times now w/ BMWNA who seem to be working w/ me. I let my concerns known (via email and phonecon) and they said they will evaluate the situation and provide a response to a buyback or replacement in about 20 days (that was 10 days ago).

So maybe I'll get an idea next week. But I'm still in a rental car.

Brigitte · 09-09-2022, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leightos

Still same status with my 45e. Waiting on parts, been 3 weeks. No word on that. Been in touch many times now w/ BMWNA who seem to be working w/ me. I let my concerns known (via email and phonecon) and they said they will evaluate the situation and provide a response to a buyback or replacement in about 20 days (that was 10 days ago).

So maybe I'll get an idea next week. But I'm still in a rental car.

Good luck! I hope you get it resolved soon. Please keep us posted...

08-20-2022, 09:57 AM	#89
streborx Major 653 Rep 1,078 Posts Drives: 2022 BMW X7 M50i Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	People here are complaining about BMW not responding. You have no legal obligation to pay for a vehicle that becomes inoperable due to material and manufacturing defects, and that is sitting in an indeterminant state in the dealership's service bay. If BMW dinged your credit for refusing to pay for a vehicle it can't fix, you would have a reason for legal action.
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08-23-2022, 02:29 AM	#97
mjr24 Colonel 1652 Rep 2,402 Posts Drives: M8 Comp GC, X7, AMG GT53 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wisconsin iTrader: (0)	I believe Benz also had a ton of issues with their 48V system and the same long delays/not knowing what was going on, etc......it wasn't pretty. Not sure if they have rectified it.... __________________ 2022 M8 Comp GC, 2021 AMG GT53, 2022 X5M Competition, 2021 X7 40i, 2019 M5, 2018 M550I, 2017 Audi Q7, 2014 M6 GC, 2013 Mercedes CLS550, 2011 750LI, 2008 M6 Cabrio, 2008 Porsche Cayenne S, 2004 Mercedes SL55 AMG, 2003 Mercedes SL500, 2000 Mercedes CL500, 1993 Lexus SC400, 1989 525i, 1985 318i
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08-23-2022, 03:19 PM	#98
awesoM Lieutenant 307 Rep 483 Posts Drives: 2023 i4 edrive35 2022 X7 M50 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Richmond VA iTrader: (0)	BMW FS is a different legal entity from BMW the car company. It would be no different if you financed your car from your local credit union and decided not to pay them when your car is broken in the shop for months. It is not the bank's fault the car is not working, it is the car company's responsibility to fix it for you to original specs if it is under warranty. From my personal experience, in addition to my cases opened with BMW NA, I also had to work with the dealer directly for final resolution, be it trade assist or collateral swap (I have gone through both). Each case is different, but BMW NA ultimately has always done the right thing in unison with my dealer. While you wait resolution for a situation like this, the worst thing you can do is not pay, you will ruin your credit. One can talk about law suits all day long, but in the interim you have lousy credit and would take months or years to sort out while you work through the courts. __________________ Currently: 2024 iX xDrive50 & 2022 X7 M50i In the rear view mirror: 94 325is/07 528i/08 X5 3.0/08 328i Conv/11 X5 35i Prem/12 X5 35d/12 335i Conv/15 328d/15 328GT/15 X3 28d #1/15 X3 28d #2/16 X3 35i/16 X5M/16 M4 Conv/17 330e/21 X5 45e - Arctic Grey/21 X5 45e - Alpine White /21 330e Xdrive/I4 e35
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