[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by coolhandshin

All engines get hp upgrades, even 40i had it. Of course M60i will get it's minor update sooner or later. No reason to discredit or avoid it. And it won't be a 100hp increase, rather ~30-40 max. It's not an X7M.

Pre-LCI M50i will never sell better than M60i. Hey, its cars; M50i is just an old and outdated car now and the new car on the block is the M60i with a fresh face and new technologies. Performance will no doubt be better as its upgraded naming suggest.

And I agree, putting a smile on your face is all you need really. We buy expensive cars on passion, not on logic!

I'm not going to argue with someone who is clearly pulling these statements out of thin air. If you want to drive an early LCI M60i that's missing tech & hp that a year from now will be outdated, all power to you (pun intended).

Just two *fact* corrections and why you should not avoid the M60i but wait a year to get it: The new tech is just a new screen and software but it's missing the real tech upgrade like the self driving tech. And the performance is worse than the pre LCI M50i. The M60i is heavier, which makes it slower and handle less well.

I'm just saying in light of this and the fact that you only have to wait 12-24months for these early misses to be fixed, it is not smart to acquire the LCI M60i right now.

[coolhandshin]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

I'm not going to argue with someone who is clearly pulling these statements out of thin air. If you want to drive an early LCI M60i that's missing tech & hp that a year from now will be outdated, all power to you (pun intended).

Just two *fact* corrections and why you should not avoid the M60i but wait a year to get it: The new tech is just a new screen and software but it's missing the real tech upgrade like the self driving tech. And the performance is worse than the pre LCI M50i. The M60i is heavier, which makes it slower and handle less well.

I'm just saying in light of this and the fact that you only have to wait 12-24months for these early misses to be fixed, it is not smart to acquire the LCI M60i right now.

Power bump and new tech coming in 12-24 months aren't *facts*.
Aren't those just your speculations?

And regarding, performance comparison, I haven't seen any real life comparison of M50i and M60i side by side.
Is this also your guess? Because many think M60i will perform better with the mild hybrid system filling in the turbo lag.
If you have seen such a comparison review that says otherwise, please share!

[Al Pinã]

Throttle House YouTube channel was only able to achieve 4.5 to 60mph.

[LowerEast]

^^^^^

Agreed the assumption on power increasing is just speculation at this point. I haven’t seen anything that definitively supports that, although I concede there may be something out there. It makes sense that the new engine will get incremental bumps over its lifetime and BMW has a history of doing just that, but we don’t know that with certainty at this point.

The updated hardware for the next level self driving that is coming in April isn’t speculation and is certainly supported. I guess you can take the view that until it is launched and in BMW literature it’s just speculation, but details have been posted on these forums by reliable sources who have a track record of knowing what they’re talking about and and being accurate in the details they provide for future upgrades / changes. If you want to dismiss that information though, that’s certainly your prerogative.

[LowerEast]

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

Throttle House YouTube channel was only able to achieve 4.5 to 60mph.

That’s one data point, and essentially useless without any additional context. Unless you have an M50 and M60 running under the same conditions, one time tells you absolutely nothing. Once we have a similar number of testers posting numbers for the M60 as exist for the M50, we’ll have a better idea whether it’s faster, slower or no different.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by LowerEast

That’s one data point, and essentially useless without any additional context. Unless you have an M50 and M60 running under the same conditions, one time tells you absolutely nothing. Once we have a similar number of testers posting numbers for the M60 as exist for the M50, we’ll have a better idea whether it’s faster, slower or no different.

So a well respected channel with 2.25 million subscribers and many competent people behind the scenes performing a 0-60 time is "useless"?

You think they accidentally did the run up a 6% graded hill or something?

Fact of the matter is that the additional weight of the hybrid system going to hamstring any supposed gains from the (obviously neutered) S63 motor.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

I'm not going to argue with someone who is clearly pulling these statements out of thin air. If you want to drive an early LCI M60i that's missing tech & hp that a year from now will be outdated, all power to you (pun intended).

Just two *fact* corrections and why you should not avoid the M60i but wait a year to get it: The new tech is just a new screen and software but it's missing the real tech upgrade like the self driving tech. And the performance is worse than the pre LCI M50i. The M60i is heavier, which makes it slower and handle less well.

I'm just saying in light of this and the fact that you only have to wait 12-24months for these early misses to be fixed, it is not smart to acquire the LCI M60i right now.

I agree with you Tr4ckD4ys with regards to the first sentence. Perhaps, the member coolhandshin may not have full understanding of the difference between a face-lift (aka, LCI in BMW language) and a new generation. He is referring to a vehicle that was still in production only a few months ago, as now being old outdated vehicle, only because now there is a design “refresh” or “LCI” that has different headlights, and new screen!!!!!!!! ..yet claiming that “performance is better” while he has not even read or seen any reputable review or real-life tests that all have indicated no measurable performance improvements (and in some cases, showing even the complete opposite)

[LowerEast]

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

So a well respected channel with 2.25 million subscribers and many competent people behind the scenes performing a 0-60 time is "useless"?

You think they accidentally did the run up a 6% graded hill or something?

Fact of the matter is that the additional weight of the hybrid system going to hamstring any supposed gains from the (obviously neutered) S63 motor.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you’re not being intentionally obtuse.

One data point with no context is useless. The test itself isn’t useless - Throttle House is ann amazing channel and they do great work. But they didn’t test an M50 under the same conditions at the same time. It’s just impossible to say from that one test whether the M60 is faster, slower or the same as an M50. Over time we’ll have more data points and we’ll have a better idea of whether there’s any performance difference between the two cars.

[coolhandshin]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

I agree with you Tr4ckD4ys with regards to the first sentence. Clearly, the member coolhandshin doesn’t not understand that difference between a face-lift and a new generation. He is referring to a vehicle that was still in production only a few months ago, as now being old outdated ugly vehicle, only because now there is a design “refresh” or “LCI” that has different headlights, and new screen!!!!!!!! ..yet claiming that “performance is better” while he has not even read or seen any reputable review or real-life tests that all have indicated no measurable performance improvements (and in some cases, showing even the complete opposite)

First off, I have high appreciation to member BMW5and7 for your contribution to this forum. I found them very informative and helpful and I thank you.

Most of the BMW buyers are just customers, not technicians. There is actually nothing to really 'understand' between an LCI and a full model change.

If the changes are drastic enough, like the front, back, interior design, screen and software versions and even the powertrain, then it doesn't require a structural chassis change for an ordinary customer to acknowledge it as a big step up. With such big changes, I personally feel the pre-LCI car is getting outdated and old and I reckon these values may show on used car markets few years later. And for the record, I did not say the old car was ugly, just outdated. Afterall, new cars are always the win!

Performance-wise, nobody has hard facts or comparison on which one is better. (Actually, your last sentence is what I was keep telling the other members about) I think M60i may be faster and more responsive, some may think otherwise. Just making point that there are no facts on this at this time.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by coolhandshin

First off, I have high appreciation to member BMW5and7 for your contribution to this forum. I found them very informative and helpful and I thank you.

Most of the BMW buyers are just customers, not technicians. There is actually nothing to really 'understand' between an LCI and a full model change.

If the changes are drastic enough, like the front, back, interior design, screen and software versions and even the powertrain, then it doesn't require a structural chassis change for an ordinary customer to acknowledge it as a big step up. With such big changes, I personally feel the pre-LCI car is getting outdated and old and I reckon these values may show on used car markets few years later. And for the record, I did not say the old car was ugly, just outdated. Afterall, new cars are always the win!

Performance-wise, nobody has hard facts or comparison on which one is better. (Actually, your last sentence is what I was keep telling the other members about) I think M60i may be faster and more responsive, some may think otherwise. Just making point that there are no facts on this at this time.

I appreciate it. You certainly have the right to share your opinion in any way you like. I was just making a comment that in my view, claiming that the pre lci is already now outdated and old seems to me as an exaggeration, especially with how BMW handled the X7 LCI (controversial headlights, and new screens lacking buttons, and removal of a number of features) that many users did not like. I hate that I always seem like an anti-LCI, I am really not, but am just trying to share how I feel about it. There is no reason for me to enjoy that I don't like it (because in fact I wish I can like it). We have seen BMW doing a much better LCI vehicles in the past, like the 7-series sedan, where it was a great update for the front headlights, much nicer taillights, and HUGE improvement going from Idrive 6 to a great Idrive 7. I am not seeing the same success here for BMW with the X7. There may be some improvements, but it is mostly controversial and you can easily spot many design critics around. Hence, because of that, I do not see in any way or form that the LCI will cause the pre-lci to look outdated. In fact, the LCI made the pre-LCI even better because many owners still prefer the pre-LCI (unlike many of the previous LCI reveals in the past). You can be one of those that really like the LCI, but we can not deny the fact that there is a good percentage of people who still like the pre-lci even better, which is really rare and does not happen for vehicles that got a perfect LCI refresh like we have seen on the 7-series. The majority of reviewers (as will as users) have reported that the LCI drives heavier than M50, and some have reported it is slower. While there is not many data points, we are yet to see one data point saying the opposite. As for idrive-8, certainly there are some improvements, but to me it seems to be more of a cosmetic updates (I have not seen major user-experience updates), and certainly the lack of physical buttons outweighs any improvements whatsoever. Search the forum and u will see even those LCI buyers now are starting to complain that with time it is not comfortable to always use the touch-screen with multiple steps to execute one function!.

After-all, in a forum like this, we are only sharing our opinion. No hard feelings, to offense whatsoever, we are all here to help, and sometimes to share opinion that may differ from other's opinion. In 90% of my presence and posts here, I am there to help or learn, and 10% to share my opinion...

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by LowerEast

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you’re not being intentionally obtuse.

One data point with no context is useless. The test itself isn’t useless - Throttle House is ann amazing channel and they do great work. But they didn’t test an M50 under the same conditions at the same time. It’s just impossible to say from that one test whether the M60 is faster, slower or the same as an M50. Over time we’ll have more data points and we’ll have a better idea of whether there’s any performance difference between the two cars.

You are right, I misspoke.

The 0-60 is actually much closer to 4.7 seconds.

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Well… I'm just pondering what does all this mean for the OP Riddleric who asked what's the 3-5 year ownership outlook. I would argue based on everything above, in that timeframe, it is better to buy a 40i now and then turn that into a M60i 3-5 years down the line or just wait a little bit longer.

While it truly isn't *fact* that the M60i will gain HP next year already or get the latest self-driving tech coolhandshin BMW5and7 LowerEast, the probability that it does not gain significantly in speed, performance and features in 3-5 years is very low. It is less likely the 40i will gain as quickly as the M60i given it just got the bump.

Therefore the OP should either hold off a little longer on an M60i until its caught up to its product roadmap. The current early LCI M60i's are likely to take a used car market hit (not fact but anecdotally probable if you like it or not) from BMWs cautious roll-out of the engines' performance and cars' features, making the newer M60i's 3 years down the line more desired.

And that isn't even saying anything about Al Pinã equally non-factual yet car-YouTuber-probable point that M60i performance is not good compared to M50i (another argument a future 3-year-down-the-line used car buyer will also take into account, especially since y'all's said that people only buy the M-whatever version for the smile on the face effect - well… that probability-not-fact is rather going to cause some smiles on M50i owners faces…)

[wtwo3]

I can't speak for the m50i vs m60i... but my 40i supposedly has a big hp and torque bump over the pre-LCI 40i... and I can't tell the difference. Probably because it's a big ass 3 row SUV and a couple tenths of a second are incomprehensible. I'd love to see the 2022 40i and 2023 40i in a drag race... but what would I do with that information? Stare down the family next to me in their pre-LCI 40i at a stoplight knowing I can walk them so they better not try anything?

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I can't speak for the m50i vs m60i... but my 40i supposedly has a big hp and torque bump over the pre-LCI 40i... and I can't tell the difference. Probably because it's a big ass 3 row SUV and a couple tenths of a second are incomprehensible. I'd love to see the 2022 40i and 2023 40i in a drag race... but what would I do with that information? Stare down the family next to me in their pre-LCI 40i at a stoplight knowing I can walk them so they better not try anything?

You can always give it a try and see how that goes lol

Either way, just for the heck of it, if anybody with a LCI M60i is in Chicago, I'd be willing to put my pre-LCI M50i to the test next to it - just so we can have some comparisons.

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I can't speak for the m50i vs m60i... but my 40i supposedly has a big hp and torque bump over the pre-LCI 40i... and I can't tell the difference. Probably because it's a big ass 3 row SUV and a couple tenths of a second are incomprehensible. I'd love to see the 2022 40i and 2023 40i in a drag race... but what would I do with that information? Stare down the family next to me in their pre-LCI 40i at a stoplight knowing I can walk them so they better not try anything?

Best reply... But, it wouldn't be a fair test if one had bench seats vs captain chairs.

It's sad that the majority of car reviews come down to 0-60 times.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Riddleric

which is a better choice for 3-5 years of ownership? Also debating if I should go for a used M50i, any suggestions?

You should get the 40i and embrace the X7 for what it actually is- a $100,000 luxury people mover. It's not a sportscar.

We love our X7 for just this reason. We don't have to worry about handling and twisties and suspension and all that typical BMW enthusiast nonsense. We've got other BMW's for that drama.

With the X7, it's just a relaxing experience. It's a living room on wheels, big, safe, comfortable, plush. Embrace that, embrace those elements, and it truly is the Ultimate Cruising Machine.

[BMW5and7]

it is a clear from this post that there is not one definitive answer. Most M50/60 owners are recommending the M50/40 to get the maximum of the X7, and most 40i owners are embracing the 40i based on the fact is is just a luxury SUV.

In all cases, I don't think there is a single answer. But, there is one fact only: you are not losing anything with the M60i. If you don't care about the extra power and fun, or if your budget needs a $10-20K cut, you won't miss anything by choosing the 40i too. I will not buy any of the claims that the M50/60 is heavier and not as comfortable as the 40i (don't fall into this trap, trust me, this is not true, both are equally comfortable with the same spec's, but one is more powerful). Again, there is not a one accurate answer; it is completely subjective. Just keep in mind that the M50-60 have shown better depreciation and are much easier to sell (they are hard to find and dealers are willing to pay extra for it knowing that it will sell quickly regardless). Your personal situation determines the better vehicle for your case.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

You should get the 40i and embrace the X7 for what it actually is- a $100,000 luxury people mover. It's not a sportscar.

We love our X7 for just this reason. We don't have to worry about handling and twisties and suspension and all that typical BMW enthusiast nonsense. We've got other BMW's for that drama.

With the X7, it's just a relaxing experience. It's a living room on wheels, big, safe, comfortable, plush. Embrace that, embrace those elements, and it truly is the Ultimate Cruising Machine.

If you believe that "handling and twisties and suspension" are not that important, majority if BMW owners go for BMW for those particular points, combined with luxury. If luxury is the ONLY important factor for you, you are probably in the wrong vehicle and already missing a lot. The X7 is not a true luxury-only SUV. It is a 50-50 sport-luxury SUV. This is anyway the BMW language for all of their vehicles -historically. The X7 was designed as an SUV that drives like a car; this is very well known, which is the reason it was not designed to be as big as the GLS or the other American luxury SUV. I would never consider the X7 if the "handling and twisties and suspension" were not as good as they are. I would have driven my Lincoln Navigator or kept my previous Escalade for that matter, or perhaps got a GLS; those are true commuters with less impressive "handling and twisties and suspension" factors that are making the X7 unique. The X7 is the only SUV that drives close to a sedan/car, than a lousy/bouncy SUV.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

You can always give it a try and see how that goes lol

Either way, just for the heck of it, if anybody with a LCI M60i is in Chicago, I'd be willing to put my pre-LCI M50i to the test next to it - just so we can have some comparisons.

[IM340]

No vehicles to test drive in AU yet. Head said 40d, ordered, Jan build (+ ship) ... after a week of moping around, looking at the reviews of DHP (which can't be option in on the 40d in AU) and dreaming of what could have been, wife said "just order the V8!" ... so now M60i, British Racing Green, loaded, April build so now I only have 9 months to dream of what will be!


PS: anyone got the solution to replace the ugly exhaust surrounds with twin pipes each side?

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

You should get the 40i and embrace the X7 for what it actually is- a $100,000 luxury people mover. It's not a sportscar.

We love our X7 for just this reason. We don't have to worry about handling and twisties and suspension and all that typical BMW enthusiast nonsense. We've got other BMW's for that drama.

With the X7, it's just a relaxing experience. It's a living room on wheels, big, safe, comfortable, plush. Embrace that, embrace those elements, and it truly is the Ultimate Cruising Machine.

I bought a full size flagship SUV and not primarily for “people hauling”. I would want this size vehicle if it were just for me and my wife. I want as much opulence as well as performance and handling in a full size vehicle I can buy for 4 people and their luggage for traveling. A full size luxury like A8L was just too small trunk space and I could never go back. There is only MB, BMW, and RR that makes a full size SUV at this very top tier level. Everything else in the luxury world is a mid size SUV with X5 smaller trunk space. (Cayenne Turbo, Bentaga, etc..)

If I wanted a people hauler I could have saved a lot of money and bought a Suburban or Escalade that has much roomier passenger seating and called it a day.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by IM340

PS: anyone got the solution to replace the ugly exhaust surrounds with twin pipes each side?

Easy solution: Cancel your order and buy the Alpina.