[pander5]

Well my Christmas has been somewhat darkened by the apparent problems some of the pro's have experienced regarding the relative and extreme softness of BMW's Jet Black E92 paint. On 2-3 different E92's in different parts of N. America (US and Canada) it has been well documented that there are difficulties in long term maintainability of a swirl or marr free Jet Black paint on the E92. I placed a Buyer's Order for a Jet Black E92 with Cream beige leather just last week and the production will be submitted sometime this week.

I have dreamed of a Jet Black new coupe for the past 4 years. My current ride is an 04 Orient Blue and I have no problem keeping it swirl free with weekly washes and Zaino. When I was at the dealer this past week they had a Jet Black Z4 M Coupe in the showroom and I pointed it out to the dealer saying I don't expect that at my PCD delivery - it was swirl city and brand spanking new! Now I'm rethinking my color choice after researching some of the issues posted on other detailing forums.

Any other JB owners here want to share your experience with this color? Having looked at several Black Sapphire Metallic's I'm not as drawn to that color because it looks too greyish at times. While it is still black, nothing looks as mirror like as a perfectly maintained Jet Black finish - something I thought I would have no problem doing!!!

Sorry for bringing the holiday down a bit but needless to say I'm disappointed after hearing from other's I highly respect having problems with this color.

[ADHD]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36189

[Ascension]

Originally Posted by pander5

Well my Christmas has been somewhat darkened by the apparent problems some of the pro's have experienced regarding the relative and extreme softness of BMW's Jet Black E92 paint. On 2-3 different E92's in different parts of N. America (US and Canada) it has been well documented that there are difficulties in long term maintainability of a swirl or marr free Jet Black paint on the E92. I placed a Buyer's Order for a Jet Black E92 with Cream beige leather just last week and the production will be submitted sometime this week.

I have dreamed of a Jet Black new coupe for the past 4 years. My current ride is an 04 Orient Blue and I have no problem keeping it swirl free with weekly washes and Zaino. When I was at the dealer this past week they had a Jet Black Z4 M Coupe in the showroom and I pointed it out to the dealer saying I don't expect that at my PCD delivery - it was swirl city and brand spanking new! Now I'm rethinking my color choice after researching some of the issues posted on other detailing forums.

Any other JB owners here want to share your experience with this color? Having looked at several Black Sapphire Metallic's I'm not as drawn to that color because it looks too greyish at times. While it is still black, nothing looks as mirror like as a perfectly maintained Jet Black finish - something I thought I would have no problem doing!!!

Sorry for bringing the holiday down a bit but needless to say I'm disappointed after hearing from other's I highly respect having problems with this color.

If you take care of your car, it should last you a lifetime

[850CSi]

Is the problem only with E92s in particular?

No problems with the Jet Black here...

[dmboone25]

I have only had my E92 three months, but so far it has been ok. You kind of know going in that the JB is going to be a pain in the ass to keep perfect, but as others have said if you take care of your car it should last a long time.

I think by always doing the washing/drying/detailing yourself, you can ensure that each step is being completed correctly, thus minimizing the liklihood that swirls and other problems will surface. I am really happy with the JB so far--if that is the color you want, I would go for it! Loving the color of your car is definately better than settling for something.....

[pander5]

Originally Posted by 850CSi

Is the problem only with E92s in particular?

Apparently. Some guys have reported working on E90's and not experiencing the same softness issues and I mean procedure or material altering soft on the E92's. I was wondering about the M Coupe I saw at my dealer last week too because it was pretty severely swirled. Nothing like I've seen before on a new car and it was Jet Black. Glad to hear you're not experiencing any problems.

[pander5]

dmboone25 - Thanks for the feedback. Do you notice any soft paint issues? For example, after a wash and dry do you inspect for newly added marring? Is it more difficult to buff and polish to get that perfect finish?

The appeal of Jet Black to me is I am a perfectionist and do detail my vehicles to as near flawless conditions that I can get. With that said, in my opinion nothing looks better than perfect Jet Black. It's just that I don't want that at the expense of inordinate amounts of time spent paint correcting. You did nail it with your comment about loving the color of the car and not compromising or settling.

Love the pics at the Speedway, BTW. Great photos and thanks again.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by pander5

...............) it has been well documented that there are difficulties in long term maintainability of a swirl or marr free Jet Black paint on the E92. .............I have dreamed of a Jet Black new coupe for the past 4 years. .................I don't expect that at my PCD delivery - it was swirl city and brand spanking new! Now I'm rethinking my color choice after researching some of the issues posted on other detailing forums.

Any other JB owners here want to share your experience with this color? Having looked at several Black Sapphire Metallic's I'm not as drawn to that color because it looks too greyish at times. While it is still black, nothing looks as mirror like as a perfectly maintained Jet Black finish ...............needless to say I'm disappointed after hearing from other's I highly respect having problems with this color.

Scratches and swirls are looked more obvious on a JB, but that is only the car is under streets lights at night. Most of the times (under day light), the paino black strong reflections will take its advantage. That is the trade off for a paino black color. If your eyes tend to be bothered by small details of impecfections, SB will hide them but and then SB is still a black car and a black car is always hard to hide the dirts and faults, especially if the paint got chipped.

BTW, Sapphire Black (SB) does not appear to be greyish, JB does. I actually found SB looks more like a matte black. But that is just my view.

Here is a recent photo of my JB E90 after detailing with Mothers 3-step.

[picus]

Hey guys, I just want to point out that the problem pander5 is talking about isn't that the car is black and shows swirls. That's a given, of course. Abused black will look bad.

The issue is a couple detailers (me included) have worked on a few black e92s (this does NOT include e90s I've worked on ~10-15 black e90s without this issue), and have found the paint to be *more* soft than the other colors. Make sense? My Sparkling Graphite e92's paint is about average in terms of hardness, it polishes will and will not marr under the pressure of a microfiber (and it isn't that I don't see it, I have 8x 500 and 1000w halogens in my shop), same with the alpine white, monaco blue, montego blue and space grey e92's I've detailed - the two jet blacks were just strangely soft.

It *might* have been just those two cars for whatever reason (though another detailer in Virginia reported the same problem), so if I was on order for a jet black e92 I'd probably keep the color ordered. I am just reporting on my findings so far. Cheers.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by pander5

dmboone25 - Thanks for the feedback. Do you notice any soft paint issues? For example, after a wash and dry do you inspect for newly added marring? Is it more difficult to buff and polish to get that perfect finish?

The appeal of Jet Black to me is I am a perfectionist and do detail my vehicles to as near flawless conditions that I can get. With that said, in my opinion nothing looks better than perfect Jet Black. It's just that I don't want that at the expense of inordinate amounts of time spent paint correcting. You did nail it with your comment about loving the color of the car and not compromising or settling.

Love the pics at the Speedway, BTW. Great photos and thanks again.

I have not had much marring so far--the good and bad about black is that you can see everything. I just got a bunch of Zaino products for XMAS and plan on using all of them! As Picus and DavidN have said in many threads, using the methods located in the sticky at the top of the detailing page will give you great results.

I think if you protect the paint with Zaino, and always wash/dry yourself, you will be ok. I have noticed myself, and heard here, that drying is often the place where you can cause the most damage--so I am just very careful about that and so far so good.

I really think the "risk" is worth it--my car glows when it is all shined up, and that is with NO Zaino. Can't wait to see what it looks like then, with all the gloss brought out.....

Get the JB!!

[aphall]

On my e90, I can say that the paint is pretty sensitive to swirls, but at the same time, I've never had to upkeep a jet black car before. Therefore, I can't really say that my paint is "softer" than another's.

[Brunotheboxer]

sorry to hear this pander5, please keep us posted on this.

[335I talian Stallion NJ]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

sorry to hear this pander5, please keep us posted on this.

Mine is soft as heck... swirls easily showing up after my first Zaino... now I need to get an orbital and try and fix them

[smokin]

why on earth would you have bland looking flat jet black when sapphire black looks way better and is easier to maintain ?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by smokin

why on earth would you have bland looking flat jet black when sapphire black looks way better and is easier to maintain ?

I think the OP just likes JB better--it is a "real" black instead of a metallic one, and they actually look quite different. If they were closer, I would have considered getting it myself (sapphire black that is) but it just doesn't POP like the JB does IMO.

[Ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by smokin

why on earth would you have bland looking flat jet black when sapphire black looks way better and is easier to maintain ?

Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.
...
The Architect: ... As you adequately put, the problem is choice.

[IDENTITY_MOTORSPORTS]

My e90 is Jet Black. I have experienced more problems with swirls in my paint than previous black vehicles. Although, I have not taken great care of my car. (Yes I am Stupid) So I guess this really wont help you. The clear does seem softer. But I have a pre-Sept e90. Black looks awesome. I am sure it will hold up well if you take care of it. Good luck.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Ninjaneer

Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.
...
The Architect: ... As you adequately put, the problem is choice.

LOL! Perfectly said!

(easy choice for me though--love the JB and "hope" that it can withstand the tests of daily driving!)

[antidentite]

I also love JB, and while it will require a lot of care and attention to maintaining the paint, the results will be well worth it.

I just hope the paint isnt "softer" than any other color!

[musc]

It's not so much the softness of the paint that is the problem... its how its cared for. The majority of your swirls coming from washing and drying. Anything can scratch the clearcloat, even microfiber. Black
is obviously going to show the swirls easier than lighter colors. A new car on a dealer showroom can easily get swirled from the prep (taking it off the truck, probably got washed, wiped down, etc). I have seen individuals at BMW dealerships wiping off cars with dirty shop rags, washing with big hard brushes, etc. It's scary.

One way to assure that your new car does get swirled is to notify your dealer that you do NOT want your car prepped. No washing, nothing wiped down, etc. Insist that they tape a sign to your windshield stating that also. Hopefully your car will remain untouched. You should also do this when your car goes any for any service. I actually tape a sign to my steering wheel stating DO NOT WASH CAR. Don't let the swirls on some other car convince you not to get the color you really want.

Sooner or later, you'll end up getting swirls on JetBlack. If it does happen, just break out the porter cable and get to work

[picus]

Originally Posted by catm3

It's not so much the softness of the paint that is the problem... its how its cared for. The majority of your swirls coming from washing and drying. Anything can scratch the clearcloat, even microfiber. Black
is obviously going to show the swirls easier than lighter colors. A new car on a dealer showroom can easily get swirled from the prep (taking it off the truck, probably got washed, wiped down, etc). I have seen individuals at BMW dealerships wiping off cars with dirty shop rags, washing with big hard brushes, etc. It's scary.

One way to assure that your new car does get swirled is to notify your dealer that you do NOT want your car prepped. No washing, nothing wiped down, etc. Insist that they tape a sign to your windshield stating that also. Hopefully your car will remain untouched. You should also do this when your car goes any for any service. I actually tape a sign to my steering wheel stating DO NOT WASH CAR. Don't let the swirls on some other car convince you not to get the color you really want.

Sooner or later, you'll end up getting swirls on JetBlack. If it does happen, just break out the porter cable and get to work

Originally Posted by picus

Hey guys, I just want to point out that the problem pander5 is talking about isn't that the car is black and shows swirls. That's a given, of course. Abused black will look bad.

The issue is a couple detailers (me included) have worked on a few black e92s (this does NOT include e90s I've worked on ~10-15 black e90s without this issue), and have found the paint to be *more* soft than the other colors. Make sense? My Sparkling Graphite e92's paint is about average in terms of hardness, it polishes will and will not marr under the pressure of a microfiber (and it isn't that I don't see it, I have 8x 500 and 1000w halogens in my shop), same with the alpine white, monaco blue, montego blue and space grey e92's I've detailed - the two jet blacks were just strangely soft.

It *might* have been just those two cars for whatever reason (though another detailer in Virginia reported the same problem), so if I was on order for a jet black e92 I'd probably keep the color ordered. I am just reporting on my findings so far. Cheers.

I hope this clears up what we're talking about. The issue isn't that black will show marring, it's that this particular color on this particular car is abnormally soft.

[jgannonloans]

i got a JB e92 and totally notice major swirls after two washes, i admit that i did not know of how detailed the process was. i used good quality stuff and microfiber and its still has a lot of swirls and looks almost stratched in certain light....totally sux, but i will use the advice of ADHD and try his system