[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Saw one in south beach. Road presence is tremendous. Wish it came in 7 speed manual tranny.

There's a reason it doesn't and why mannys are fading into obscurity.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

There's a reason it doesn't and why mannys are fading into obscurity.

So y'all can text and drive?

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

So y'all can text and drive?

No because even with a Bionic Arm, you have zero chance of beating a DCT in a proper car.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

No because even with a Bionic Arm, you have zero chance of beating a DCT in a proper car.

Because driving is about beating another car. Sure.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

There's a reason it doesn't and why mannys are fading into obscurity.

Really?! Checked manual Fezza prices recently? 550/575 manuals sell for more than 599 or even F12's. Same is going on with manual F430 Scuds.

Rumor has it that Ferrari is considering offering three pedals as a (comically expensive) option again. The primary reason for the shift towards automatics is actually efficiency, not performance. With tightening fleet averages, the manual just doesn't make sense for smaller volume manufacturers.

[TXSTYLE]

That too.

Hey... I took my driver's license test in a manual way back in the day. And have owned at least 5 cars with it. Just not my thing anymore. Maybe on a occasional Sunday only but I can honestly say that if I never drive one again, no biggie at all.

[David70]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

When you are spending 150k for a car, it better be top notch.

Considering the cars in the same price as the GT S you are looking at some stiff competition. McLaren came out with a supercar you can get for 20k more. P turbo is a better car as well.

Now, even if you are not looking to compare shop this car with a z06, it doesn't help your bragging rights if you are spanked by a car so much cheaper.

If I was shopping for an m3, but say it can easily be beat in all performance numbers- acceleration, handling, etc by a car costing 20k less, for instance a Chevy Malibu, I would maybe hold on to my money for a few months and wait for a better car.

Keep in mind, it would be my fun car and not a DD. It is exactly what is happening to the GT S. It is a 2nd or 3rd car and it is a non essential purchase.

I think the Mercedes is "top notch". I think it starts at $130k, what Mcclaren can you actually buy here for $150k? and then assuming buying/service will be a major issue and possibly involve long distance towing. Getting my car serviced and it taking a 6 hour drive to get to the dealership would be something worth considering.

How did you determine the P Turbo is a better car (back to winning races?)? I think it's starting price is also considerably higher. I would say it does some things better but as far as being interesting and different it doesn't do much for me.

I also don't believe the M3 was the best performance/dollar and think other attributes were more important to you. If you can eventually get the GT350 for $55k and it has comparable track numbers to the M3 do you automatically get it or would other things come into play?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by David70

I think the Mercedes is "top notch". I think it starts at $130k, what Mcclaren can you actually buy here for $150k? and then assuming buying/service will be a major issue and possibly involve long distance towing. Getting my car serviced and it taking a 6 hour drive to get to the dealership would be something worth considering.

How did you determine the P Turbo is a better car (back to winning races?)? I think it's starting price is also considerably higher. I would say it does some things better but as far as being interesting and different it doesn't do much for me.

I also don't believe the M3 was the best performance/dollar and think other attributes were more important to you. If you can eventually get the GT350 for $55k and it has comparable track numbers to the M3 do you automatically get it or would other things come into play?

ring times for the turbo are much faster than the amg gt s.

many reviewers love the gt s, but say the p car (comparing the 991 gts/4s vs amg gt s) is a better sports car. 150k is about what your budget would be with the amg. You can get at least the 991 gts for less than that.

if the gt350 was out when I bought my m3, I would have considered it, although- I was really talking about a sedan because 4 doors is what i wanted. nonetheless, I would have test drove the stingray and the gt350 had i been shopping for a m4. of course the gt350 is a limited prod car and probably would be marked up and impossible to test drive.


for reference p cars vs gt s- all p cars win vs the gt s.

[hellrotm]

I got to drive a AMG GT at the AMG driving academy. No question I would take it over any 911, except the GT3. But the GT3 is in a whole different category.

I would like to see the breakdown of 911 sales. How many are Turbo sales vs base 911's that start at $89k. 991 Turbo is the true AMG GT competitor, as is cars like the R8.

Is the R8 a sales failure? In 2013 Audi sold 813 units and in 2014 it sold 735 units. Benz has exceeded that in 6 months. AMG GT is a lower volume car. First car built solely by AMG, it isn't built along side other models like the E63, C63, etc...

I must have missed the press release somewhere, that said Benz was going to out sell the 911. The most well established German sports car in history.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by David70

How did you determine the P Turbo is a better car (back to winning races?)? I think it's starting price is also considerably higher. I would say it does some things better but as far as being interesting and different it doesn't do much for me.

We have a magazine racer here. Plus he has a record for being negative towards anything Benz.

We will have to wait on his sales failure thread for the R8 Mk2.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I got to drive a AMG GT at the AMG driving academy. No question I would take it over any 911, except the GT3. But the GT3 is in a whole different category.

I would like to see the breakdown of 911 sales. How many are Turbo sales vs base 911's that start at $89k. 991 Turbo is the true AMG GT competitor, as is cars like the R8.

Is the R8 a sales failure? In 2013 Audi sold 813 units and in 2014 it sold 735 units. Benz has exceeded that in 6 months. AMG GT is a lower volume car. First car built solely by AMG, it isn't built along side other models like the E63, C63, etc...

I must have missed the press release somewhere, that said Benz was going to out sell the 911. The most well established German sports car in history.

It would only be a failure if we knew the mb sales goals.

However we do know the inventory and if the inventory is sitting. In fact if you click on my links today, you will see that there is even MORE inventory since i posted it.

We also know that MB heavily advertised the AMG GT S based on the article by bloomberg.

Based on this it is a fair assumption that they do not have the demand for the supply at least in LA.

Again, not bashing the car itself, it deserves its place among the best drivers cars out there. The point is that despite this, the car is not selling very well. Again, based on the bloomberg article, the sales rate and the inventory on hand.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

We have a magazine racer here. Plus he has a record for being negative towards anything Benz.

We will have to wait on his sales failure thread for the R8 Mk2.

I have provided a commentary on an article written by bloomberg. As I have also provided additional facts including rate of sale, as well as inventory.

That is the point of the thread.

There is no need to personally attack people.

I have personally had all makes of cars and do not get paid by any of them.

2 mazdas
1 ford
2 infinitis
1 audi
2 mercedes benz including AMG
2 lexus
1 acura

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

We have a magazine racer here. Plus he has a record for being negative towards anything Benz.

We will have to wait on his sales failure thread for the R8 Mk2.

Here was my collection, excuse the mess. same garage. I've moved since these photos were taken.

[dkhm3]

just replaced my wife's 2010 E350 with this to further my point

2015 f sport gs350



retired my old MDX for the x5 a couple years back.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Based on this it is a fair assumption that they do not have the demand for the supply at least in LA.

I will be back in LA next month. Might take a roll through Fletcher in Newport if I have time, see if they actually have that many units on their lot. Is it actual physical inventory, I doubt it. A good friend of mine in Dallas had to get in line for an allocation.

Honestly I hope it is all true, I would be very happy in a couple years if you can get one for less $100k. I just don't see that happening. Used ones right now go for msrp or higher.

Just the fact that they are more rare on the streets is appealing to me. 911's are a dime a dozen.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I will be back in LA next month. Might take a roll through Fletcher in Newport if I have time, see if they actually have that many units on their lot. Is it actual physical inventory, I doubt it. A good friend of mine in Dallas had to get in line for an allocation.

Honestly I hope it is all true, I would be very happy in a couple years if you can get one for less $100k. I just don't see that happening. Used ones right now go for msrp or higher.

Just the fact that they are more rare on the streets is appealing to me. 911's are a dime a dozen.

sweet. my neck of the woods, let me know if you are free for coffee, as would love to share time with a fellow car nut, even if i don't agree with him.

I think you will find a ton of inventory for most sports cars these days. Including m3/m4's- C63S per mb's site there are 50 of them available in the la county area. As I have stated in other threads, there are too many choices these days, and they are all good or great cars... I wish I was in a market for one of them now.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Just the fact that they are more rare on the streets is appealing to me. 911's are a dime a dozen.

So, why aren't you driving something rare today? 911s aren't a dime a dozen. Porsche just has awesome retention. Stop being facetious. That's like saying Rollie's are a dime-a-dozen.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

So, why aren't you driving something rare today? 911s aren't a dime a dozen. Porsche just has awesome retention. Stop being facetious. That's like saying Rollie's are a dime-a-dozen.

They are a dime a dozen were I am from, LA and Malibu area. My high school parking lot even had 911's in it. They are literally everywhere. Not sure why you took that comment in such a negative light. But yes that is one aspect about the AMG GT that is appealing to me, they are more rare on the street. There are many other things I like about the car, as like I said was fortunate enough to drive one at AMG driving academy. Spending $130k+ on a sports car, exclusivity is something I would take into consideration. Driving a M3(fairly inexpensive sports car), I don't really give a sh*t. It is basically a 3-series to most non-car people. And no that is not like saying Roll's are dime a dozen. Why would he even make an analogy like that? I guess I could have used a different saying than "dime a dozen". I can go for a drive in LA and see 20 911's in a half and hour. While I see 1 to 2 AMG GT's in a week, if that. Hell I am more likely to see Ferrari's. But that could support the fact that they are not selling like the Bloomberg article implies. I do know they are out selling the old SLS by a large margin, but that was a more expensive car. By the way I am a huge P-car fan.

[48Laws]

Firstly, the Merc is a new model. Conversely, the 911 has many variants spanning decades. You will see more of them. Likewise, it's a brand many car enthusiast just love and are very loyal to it as far as the sports car/GT segment goes. How about saying your car is popular in your area. That's far more accurate. And "Rollie" is referring to the watch, Rolex. No worries. And I do get your point. If you want the wow factor, the Merc is the way to go.

[David70]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

ring times for the turbo are much faster than the amg gt s.

many reviewers love the gt s, but say the p car (comparing the 991 gts/4s vs amg gt s) is a better sports car. 150k is about what your budget would be with the amg. You can get at least the 991 gts for less than that.

if the gt350 was out when I bought my m3, I would have considered it, although- I was really talking about a sedan because 4 doors is what i wanted. nonetheless, I would have test drove the stingray and the gt350 had i been shopping for a m4. of course the gt350 is a limited prod car and probably would be marked up and impossible to test drive.


for reference p cars vs gt s- all p cars win vs the gt s.

You keep going back to lap times as the determining factor yet you bought a sedan because you cared about other features besides lap times. You, like almost everyone else, look at at lap times as one of many determining factors and once I start racing for money, small differences in performance will matter a lot more to me.

Compare a Rolex to a Timex and I would also say the Timex blows away a Rolex based on number of features and price. No logical reason to get the new Rolex.

Two cars sitting in a parking lot, 911 T and the Merc. No question which one I would prefer to see up close.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by David70

You keep going back to lap times as the determining factor yet you bought a sedan because you cared about other features besides lap times. You, like almost everyone else, look at at lap times as one of many determining factors and once I start racing for money, small differences in performance will matter a lot more to me.

Compare a Rolex to a Timex and I would also say the Timex blows away a Rolex based on number of features and price. No logical reason to get the new Rolex.

Two cars sitting in a parking lot, 911 T and the Merc. No question which one I would prefer to see up close.

I brought up the sedan thing because you asked why I didn't consider the GT350. They don't make mustangs, camaros, or corvettes in sedan format. If they did, you'd be damn sure I would consider it over the M3. There is simply no reason a sports car costing 84k (mine) not perform better than those costing 1/3 cheaper. I already have the X5 for luxury/utility. I use the M only for fun. I could care less if it was a BMW.

I brought up lap times and reviews because it is what is best used to attempt to objectively judge sports cars. You asked me what my parameters were for p cars.

Like someone else said on this forum, subjective opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I can't argue about your preference for the AMG, the point of the thread is the slow sales.

Timex vs Rolex, is straying from the point of the thread. If Rolex came out with a new type of Diving watch say the Submariner II, and it did not sell, then this thread would be discussing the sales. It is not a AMG v porsche thread, nor anything vs anything thread. It is a simple thread on the slow sales of the GT S.

[48Laws]

You implied that Porsche's are a dime a dozen as to imply they are of lesser value. Rolex's are ubiquitous yet aren't seen as lesser value in the watch community by any stretch of the imagination. The 911 has a loyal following.