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[ACZakka325i]

I bought the Blizzaks, and i assume that since they have more "channels" to get rid of rain/snow from underneath the tire that they will be better in the rain. Can anyone confirm this. I am concerned that in colder weather conditions, such as in december, that even in temps just above 32 degrees, that the summer tires will not be as good as the snows in the rain?

thoughts?

[ACZakka325i]

Come on guys, i know someone out there knows about this. Or i could just wait and see how they do in these situations.

[jcoo085]

I've read a few reports that say snow/winter tyres are not as good in the wet/dry as summer tyres. Some have also said that this 'below 7 deg' stuff is a bit of a myth.

Nevertheless, I also have the Blizzaks (LM-22's) and I have the feeling they're on par with my Continental summers in the wet, but marginally less grippy in the dry (although not that much less that it's a worry).

[voltron1011]

Snow tires are made of a much harder compound than traditional tires and work much like an ice-breaker ship. It's not so much the water/ice channeling/displacing properties as it is the ability to crush into the snow/ice to get better grip, like spiked rally tires. Hope this helps.

[ACZakka325i]

So the snows are about the same in the rain as the summers.

I put the Blizzaks on today and i notice a much smoother ride. I feel like im riding on cotton. But, even though i havent pushed it on these tires, i do sense much less grip than my super sticky summer tires.

[snapper]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

Snow tires are made of a much harder compound than traditional tires and work much like an ice-breaker ship. It's not so much the water/ice channeling/displacing properties as it is the ability to crush into the snow/ice to get better grip, like spiked rally tires. Hope this helps.

Ummm, that doesn't sound quite right. Winter tires have a softer compound so they are more pliable in the cold, but will burn up much faster in the summer heat. Summer tires turn hard in the cold and are said to be like hockey pucks.

If you look at a good summer tire (Bridgestone S03s) against a good winter tire (Dunlop WS M3s), you'll see the channels on the summer tire running more vertically (direction of travel) while the winter tire channels run more horizontally & have fine horizontal cuts (sipes) in the tread blocks.

The vertical channels gives a path for water to go (sideways) when the leading edge of the rubber rolls over it. You only need the vertical channels for water since the remaining part of the rubber will follow on the same clean pavement the leading edge just squeegeed clean. Horizontal channels are a waste here (and just means you have less rubber on the road) since there is no water to channel anymore after the first tread block hits and displaces it already.

In snow and ice, however, you want horizontal channels and sipes. They do 2 things: 1) they create lots of square edges that sink slightly into the softer snow and bite and 2) the sipes provide a place for slightly melted water to go so the rubber can grip the snow/ice better. Its actually not the rubber on ice/snow that causes you to slide, it's an instantaneous melt and thin film of water between the rubber and snow/ice that you end up surfing on. But in the end the winter tires need to be good in both snow and water, so you'll see a mix of both horizontal/vertical channels.

But to your question, in warm weather, the summer tire with vertical channels will definitely be better in the wet. But in winter, and 34 F water, you are up against too hard rubber compound somewhat offsetting better water channeling.... perhaps its even in winter

[Hornet]

Originally Posted by snapper

Winter tires have a softer compound so they are more pliable in the cold, but will burn up much faster in the summer heat.

That's true, the compound is much softer in the winter tires. It helps on a slippery surface (icy/snowy) but the traction on a dry road is worse.

Had 16" summer Conti's for a couple of months and now 16" studded Nokian's. The ride/handling feels a bit softer with the winter tires and you can notice a decrease of grip on dry roads. I think the summer tires are better in rain.

[voltron1011]

That's strange because I had a set of snow tires on one of my cars in the past and it felt like I was driving on Tonka Truck Wheels. Thanks for the correction anyway.

[Tierfreund]

Snow tires are not as good on a wet road as good performance summer tires. Snow tires have big grooves so they don´t get clogged too easily by snow. Big groves are not good for wet roads though (contrary to popular belief).
For wet road grip you need lots of very fine grooves since their capillary effect will transport the water to the sides from under the tire. On the big grooves of snow tires the capillary effect does not work hence they cannot displace as much water from under the tire.

[ACZakka325i]

Well thank you very much. I found your post to be very informative.

[gdcwatt]

It still comes down to the individual tires you're comparing, but the magazines/newspapers state that there seems to be a crossover from optimal designed performance of both winter and summer tires at about 7C/40F. My 50-series Toyo Garitt HT's are great when it's cold and dry, but lose wet and dry braking, starting, and cornering performance around 37F, and by 42F (give or take) my car is just scrubbing off rubber, and skidding through stop signs in the wet.

The Blizzak WS-50's aren't known for their wet weather grip, although I'm sure their open treadpattern helps reduce hydroplaning through standing water, compared to most "summer" tires. The current generation of higher performance summer tires feature high silica content, and long carbon black strings which enhance wet weather performance, and help those tires keep their wet and dry grip as they get older (regardless of tread depth).

As you drive/park/drive/park/drive... your car, the tires heat up and cool; this heat-cycling continues the vulcanization process that originally turned the liquid rubber into hard rubber - so the tread gets hard, and loses it's wet weather grip, despite lots of tread depth remaining.

I figure that anyone can go fast in the dry, so I usually go for a tire with better than average wet weather performance, because you're more likely to get caught without enough grip at .7g in the wet than at .8g in the dry.