DCT vs PDK

[CityOfAngels]

Hi guys,

I had the pleasure of driving a 991S with the updated PDK system yesterday and loved it. In SportPlus, the shirts were extremely quick and sharp. Has anyone had a chance to compare this with the current DCT in the M3? Will S5 or S6 provide that same brutal jerk as it upshifts?

[CPB]

They're both excellent dual clutch boxes. Most would be equally happy with either.

[mlhj83]

I can attest that S5 and S6 are brutal at full throttle 8400rpm upshifts. Porsche's PDK was playing catchup with BMW's M-DCT and Nissan's GTR until the 991 generation PDK, which is now just as good. See Chris Harris' review on the F10 M5 and GT-R, and the 991 PDK.

[gblansten]

There is some discussion in the thread below that you might find of interest.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646832

[smmmurf]

FWIW I think PDK is better in automatic mode than DCT in the new 991/981. Shift speed... both are really quick, not sure if any perceptible difference.

The "both paddles do both things" on the Porsche is hard to get used to though. I would much rather have the left down right up setup in the DCT if I were to go with an automatic manual gearbox.

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

FWIW I think PDK is better in automatic mode than DCT in the new 991/981. Shift speed... both are really quick, not sure if any perceptible difference.

The "both paddles do both things" on the Porsche is hard to get used to though. I would much rather have the left down right up setup in the DCT if I were to go with an automatic manual gearbox.

PDK comes with separate up/down paddles as an option.

[DrSeuss99]

Originally Posted by gblansten

There is some discussion in the thread below that you might find of interest.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646832

Good info, thanks for the link

[CityOfAngels]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

PDK comes with separate up/down paddles as an option.

Correct. If I'm not mistaken, the paddles are a part of the sport chrono package.

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by CityOfAngels

Correct. If I'm not mistaken, the paddles are a part of the sport chrono package.

They're separate from the Sport Chrono Package. You can get the sport steering wheel with no buttons and real paddles as a stand-alone option, which I think is awesome



On topic:

I've driven a Panamera 4S with PDK and thought it was fantastic. The paddles have no delay (are you listening Mercedes?), the shifts are smooth, and in Sport Plus they give you a nice kick. The 400hp V8 wasn't too bad, either.

I've also been in several M3s with DCT and feel similarly. I would say that PDK is a little more comfort oriented and better around town, while DCT is a little more involving.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Mahzari

They're separate from the Sport Chrono Package. You can get the sport steering wheel with no buttons and real paddles as a stand-alone option, which I think is awesome



On topic:

I've driven a Panamera 4S with PDK and thought it was fantastic. The paddles have no delay (are you listening Mercedes?), the shifts are smooth, and in Sport Plus they give you a nice kick. The 400hp V8 wasn't too bad, either.

I've also been in several M3s with DCT and feel similarly. I would say that PDK is a little more comfort oriented and better around town, while DCT is a little more involving.

Yes If you do a build on the Porsche website you have to go under "options" then "interior leather" and choose the "sport design steering wheel" to get the paddles. This assumes you have picked the PDK transmission.

[rdollie]

I've driven the PDK setup in the Cayman and 997 but not the new 991. I felt the PDK was really about the equal of the DCT in our cars but the flat 6 combined with PDK felt even better than our V8 DCT setup and I think our setup works VERY well.

That said, while PDK might help the 991 compared to our cars I think it's more the fact that we're lugging around at least 600 more pounds!

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by CityOfAngels

Will S5 or S6 provide that same brutal jerk

Possibly, but there's this Chinese massage parlor by me where after a quick 5 minute back rub, I flip over and it's guaranteed.

[DiegoQuin]

They're both excellent dual clutch boxes

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

I have driven DCT many times and IMO BMW has been trying to play catch up with all of their software updates. Early DCT was lagging and honestly attrocious. Current state, I still think the DCT lacks the near perfection of PDK whether its in manual mode or auto. I do think with the PDK you need to buy the paddles. The push buttons arent bad but I prefer proper left and right paddles.
PDK IMO was the best when it came out and now with the 991 and the in house tuning, it is another step above and still the best and most involving dual clutch on the market.
PDK is a very large part of the reason why a 997.2 BASE 911 with only 345 hp can hit 150 mph faster than our M3s and why a 997.2 911 S with 385 hp absolutely destroys it let alone the fact that a 991S traps 118-119 mph with "only" 400 hp and lays down a Ring time that is equal to the 458 italia despite having 170 less hp.
Afterall, Porsche did create this technology, as they have many other things you see in cars today, like synchro mesh.

Some of your statements are incorrect, seeing as I own both pdk and dct I'll give a little insight to the op. Dct in my 2011 m3 if far more responsive to my commands and the shifts also feel slightly faster and I feel absolutely no loss in power when I'm up shifting in dct. In pdk there is a brief hesitation between shifts, its a great smooth transmission however it is not as responsive as dct and the only instance where pdk shifts instantly is when your pushing closer to redline, in all other scenarios pdk is less responsive and slower than dct. Pdk feels closer to a conventional automatic. It's shifts in auto mode are very smooth and almost imperceptible. To some that's a good thing but to others it may just feel like a really good auto and not feel as special as dct. IMO pdk is a great transmission but dct in my m3 is on a higher level performance wise. And as far as the m3 being slower than a base 911, that would have more to do with better aerodynamics and traction. If Pdk was geared as aggressively as dct the straight line speed would be even greater between the two cars. Porsche was dead set on better fuel
Economy then just all out performance. The fact of the matter is pdk in the 911 is geared almost identically to the manual in the 911. Where dct is geared far more aggressively than a manual transmission m3. Damn it's hard typing long responses on my iPhone!

[calintexas]

Originally Posted by rdollie

I've driven the PDK setup in the Cayman and 997 but not the new 991. I felt the PDK was really about the equal of the DCT in our cars but the flat 6 combined with PDK felt even better than our V8 DCT setup and I think our setup works VERY well.

That said, while PDK might help the 991 compared to our cars I think it's more the fact that we're lugging around at least 600 more pounds!

Also, aerodynamic drag really starts to come into play above 100 mph. According to data I found on carfolio.com an E92 M3 has a 7% higher Drag coefficient and 8% more frontal area than the 997 requiring 15.4% more power to drive an M3 at a given speed than a 997 to overcome aerodynamic drag alone.

[pharmdphd98]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Possibly, but there's this Chinese massage parlor by me where after a quick 5 minute back rub, I flip over and it's guaranteed.

Lol

[clar]

Originally Posted by KKM3

Some of your statements are incorrect, seeing as I own both pdk and dct I'll give a little insight to the op. Dct in my 2011 m3 if far more responsive to my commands and the shifts also feel slightly faster and I feel absolutely no loss in power when I'm up shifting in dct. In pdk there is a brief hesitation between shifts, its a great smooth transmission however it is not as responsive as dct and the only instance where pdk shifts instantly is when your pushing closer to redline, in all other scenarios pdk is less responsive and slower than dct. Pdk feels closer to a conventional automatic. It's shifts in auto mode are very smooth and almost imperceptible. To some that's a good thing but to others it may just feel like a really good auto and not feel as special as dct. IMO pdk is a great transmission but dct in my m3 is on a higher level performance wise. And as far as the m3 being slower than a base 911, that would have more to do with better aerodynamics and traction. If Pdk was geared as aggressively as dct the straight line speed would be even greater between the two cars. Porsche was dead set on better fuel
Economy then just all out performance. The fact of the matter is pdk in the 911 is geared almost identically to the manual in the 911. Where dct is geared far more aggressively than a manual transmission m3. Damn it's hard typing long responses on my iPhone!

Agree 100%! I tried the PDK in the 991 C2S and i was not impressed with it. As u said, there is always a little annoying lag between command input and actual shift, which is absent in my DCT!

[HotIce]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597861

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by clar

Agree 100%! I tried the PDK in the 991 C2S and i was not impressed with it. As u said, there is always a little annoying lag between command input and actual shift, which is absent in my DCT!

The pdk in the 991 is a huge improvement over the 997 pdk. Very close to the responsiveness in the current m3 dct but still falls a bit short.

[karussell]

i thought the PDK in the 991S is more direct than the DCT in my 2010 M3. the correct answer of course in either car is to get a real manual transmission.
flame suit on.

[hlmiii]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Early DCT was lagging and honestly attrocious.

With respect - this statement is unfoundingly hyperbolic. Almost silly.

(Reference: owner of 2008 E92 with DCT, since moved on to 6MT which is even slower but also manages to be not atrocious. )

[Kradi]

From personal experience, the 997 PDK shifts quicker than the DCT and doesn't throw you as the M would in S6.

When driving in automatic though, if not in Sport Plus the car short shifts even if you're aggressively on the throttle and is in a rush to climb gears. Both amazing gear boxes, but I definitely prefer the DCT.