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      02-25-2020, 07:31 AM   #1
Valentino15
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Need Advice - Please help - May be cancelling order

I'm a new poster to the board but a loyal follower as I have eagerly been awaiting my X7 M50i order. A few events have developed over the past two weeks that has me on the brink of cancelling my order:

-Up until a week ago, I was the happy owner of a 2014 550ix. Probably the best, most reliable car I've ever owned. The only lingering issue was the engine seemed to "consume" a lot of oil. Alwasy told "its a thirsty engine" by service area.

-I religiously serviced the car at the dealership where I purchased and had an extended warranty and service plan that carried me into late 2019. Never missed any service on the, only topped with BMW oil.

-Knowing that my car was coming out of warranty, I decided to order a X7 M50i in late December with an expected delivery in about 3 weeks (had some IND options).

-Last week, I noticed my low engine oil light was on again and I took the 550 in for a look.

-I get a call that night and the service manager I have dealt with for years says " Well, it looks like you have several oil leaks, what are you doing with the car one X7 comes in?" I said "Trade it in." He says "I'm estimating $13,000+ in repairs to drop the engine and fix the issue" I asked if they would just take it and he said "we may not take it, in fact, you may have some Valve Stem work needed as well up above that figure." Basically he branded my car as worthless at the dealership.

-Needless to say I left furious and, long story short, have been offered a price of 12k at Carmax as they noticed the issue as well. May be best I can get at this point.

-After digesting for the last few days, I am leaning towards not buying the X7 at this time and likely not doing business with the dealership moving forward. I have a call into the sales manager to discuss... at this point I don't care if they keep my $2,500 deposit. I'm livid just typing this. It has nothing to do with the X7, I just cant do business in good faith with these people.

So part of this was just to vent but also wanted to get opinions on:

1) Am I overreacting? It just feels like they should have recognized issue.
2) Any advice to deal with dealership?
3) I see no issue with walking away form order but have never done that before, any issues to consider?
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      02-25-2020, 07:58 AM   #2
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So, I'm showing a normal 2014 550ix would be selling around $24k or so, give or take a $1k-$2k, depending on mileage and condition, in my area. So if you sell to CarMax you are leaving at least $10k-$12k on the table (assuming the issue was fixed). $13k to drop an engine seems expensive to me, do you have a local trusted independent mechanic who knows BMW's and can do the work (which would likely be much cheaper?). Then you could have the car fixed and then either trade in for a higher value or sell on your own.

If this isn't an option, try Carvana to sell. I'm in the process of selling a 2015 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite in very good condition and CarMax only offered me $19,000 for it. Carvana is offering $22,137 (which is the going rate in my area) and I'm taking it to them on Friday to hopefully get it sold.

Regarding your deposit, did you sign up for a non-refundable deposit? I mean, these aren't hard cars to sell, and I balk at any dealer that chooses to use a non-refundable deposit (my local BMW did the same to me, wanted to charge me a $5k non-refundable deposit for an X7 order and I ended up dealing with a dealer 120 miles away that never even asked for a deposit). I'm definitely a man of principle as well, but $2,500 is a lot of money. However, if you did choose to go through with a purchase of an X7 you may see if you can get a better deal from another dealer. You may be able to find a deal with another dealer that saves you more than $2,500 that you have on your current deal so that essentially you don't lose your deposit.

No matter what happens, I would fight to get that $2,500 back, and tell them that them not telling you previously about the service issues on your current BMW means you cannot do business with them again in good faith. Get the general manager involved if need be because I'm sure they don't want one of their customers out badmouthing them in the community.
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      02-25-2020, 07:58 AM   #3
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I don't think you're overacting at all if you had a warranty that carried you to late 2019 and had noted the issue before. Do you have the service records where the SA noted your complaint of consuming oil from before the warranty period ended? If so, I would think you have a fairly strong case to argue they should be covering it under warranty.

The 12k carmax offer is quite a bit light, but you're certainly not talking about a 13k difference from what the trade in value should be. Perhaps get the dealer's trade-in value for the car as-is now, then bring it up to the GM so he at least has two options (give you more for the trade as-is, or help to make sure they get the claim covered under warranty so they could give you the full value).

If you do decide to walk, you could likely get another dealer to intercept your build so you could still get the same car in the same time-frame.

Good luck.
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Last edited by unfoundnemo; 02-25-2020 at 08:07 AM..
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      02-25-2020, 08:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachos Libres View Post
So, I'm showing a normal 2014 550ix would be selling around $24k or so, give or take a $1k-$2k, depending on mileage and condition, in my area.
Keep in mind that's what they're selling for at the dealers... Private party sale would be a bit less, and KBB trade-in value for that car in "Good" condition with only 50,000 miles is around $18k.
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Last edited by unfoundnemo; 02-25-2020 at 08:17 AM..
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      02-25-2020, 08:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfoundnemo View Post
Keep in mind that's what they're selling for at the dealers... Private party sale would be a bit less, and KBB trade-in value for that car in "Good" condition with only 50,000 miles is around $18k.
True. That's the downside with these luxury cars, their values drop like a rock.
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      02-25-2020, 09:08 AM   #6
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Why would they keep your deposit? All deposits I ever made were fully refundable? Worst case if you put down with credit card you can dispute and just say I never received product.
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      02-25-2020, 09:21 AM   #7
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Not saying they will keep, I just recall them saying something about only refunding if I didn't qualify for financing.

I'm not one to walk away from an agreement but the recent events just don't make me feel comfortable moving forward with them at this time.
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      02-25-2020, 09:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
Not saying they will keep, I just recall them saying something about only refunding if I didn't qualify for financing.

I'm not one to walk away from an agreement but the recent events just don't make me feel comfortable moving forward with them at this time.
Put a lock on your credit. When they can't finance you they'll refund? Maybe
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      02-25-2020, 10:21 AM   #9
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So let me get this straight: you had a warranty that went until late 2019. You let it expire and didn't get service before the end. You had serviced almost 6 months after expiration and you're complaining about a oil problem.

It's possible the oil problem started Jan 1 2020. Unlikely but still it's not the fault of the dealership. They sold your a car and you were happy until it fell apart after the warranty period. Sales and service are 2 different departments and often have nothing to do with each other.

My advice, which I'm sure don't want to hear, is to sell your car that's falling apart and take the hit. It's like you held a bad poker hand or such. You gambled and lost. Time to roll with the punches and move on.

My advice going forward to avoid this problem is to Lease. You want a new car every 3 years with fully warranty and all coverage? Just lease.

Now for the x7. Buy it or find something else like a q5 or GLS or Cayennes or something. But if you want a big SUV, and like Bmw's in general; lease an x7 and take it to a different service dealership for services.

I'm sure there's ten dealerships near you that might be a bit further driving, but a different service center.
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      02-25-2020, 10:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
So let me get this straight: you had a warranty that went until late 2019. You let it expire and didn't get service before the end. You had serviced almost 6 months after expiration and you're complaining about a oil problem.

It's possible the oil problem started Jan 1 2020. Unlikely but still it's not the fault of the dealership. They sold your a car and you were happy until it fell apart after the warranty period. Sales and service are 2 different departments and often have nothing to do with each other.

My advice, which I'm sure don't want to hear, is to sell your car that's falling apart and take the hit. It's like you held a bad poker hand or such. You gambled and lost. Time to roll with the punches and move on.

My advice going forward to avoid this problem is to Lease. You want a new car every 3 years with fully warranty and all coverage? Just lease.

Now for the x7. Buy it or find something else like a q5 or GLS or Cayennes or something. But if you want a big SUV, and like Bmw's in general; lease an x7 and take it to a different service dealership for services.

I'm sure there's ten dealerships near you that might be a bit further driving, but a different service center.
Harsh, but that’s the right interpretation and advice.
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      02-25-2020, 10:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddwalton View Post
Harsh, but that’s the right interpretation and advice.
I disagree. What kind of engine issue can realistically develop in such a short period of time, assuming you didn’t do some serious damage to the car yourself? The car always tells you that the engine oil is low so I presume you didn’t drive your car for many miles after and if the warning message was on? If you serviced your car right before your warranty expired and no issues were raised, I would call bullshit and reach out to BMW NA with a complaint. Something is fishy.

With respect to your deposit, as others said, unless you signed a different piece of paper, most or all of them are fully refundable. The dealership may give you a hard time but it’s refundable nevertheless so I would not give it up.

Lastly, if I had an experience like this, I would probably never buy another expensive car, but lease instead. This is my 4th BMW in a row and my first 2 had oil consumption issues as seems normal for the BMW V8s. I lease and usually don’t have to worry for any out of warranty issues.
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      02-25-2020, 01:41 PM   #12
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Yikes! Tough crowd. I agree that I technically took the risk by owning the car out side of warranty, it just feels a bit suspicious that the issue was just noticed as I have been consuming oil at a crazy pace with immediate visits to the dealership to follow. My belief is that they were not inspecting the car to any level of meaningful detail during service visits.

I also agree with the idea of leasing (we lease my wife's GLS 450), I was just hoping to buy a car I could rely on to own for the next 5-7 years without fear of major mechanical breakdown or sever devaluation (Both of which hit me this time!)

UPDATE: I spoke to the Sales Mgr and he is pissed! Not at me, just at the service folks for not bringing the situation to his attention. He said "Of course, we would have taken it on trade" No mention of how much, have to assume it would be an ugly figure based on the most recent diagnosis. he said he "Really hated to lose a good customer to the dealership and the brand." I said "I might be back one day, sh*& happens, this was just a rough sequence of events"

He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
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      02-25-2020, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
I mean, $20k for your trade, 11-14% + Incentives off MSRP, and base MF on a new lease would probably make it right... It seems you have made up your mind, though.
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      02-25-2020, 02:04 PM   #14
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Ha, he offered me an extended warranty at cost.
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      02-25-2020, 02:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
Yikes! Tough crowd. I agree that I technically took the risk by owning the car out side of warranty, it just feels a bit suspicious that the issue was just noticed as I have been consuming oil at a crazy pace with immediate visits to the dealership to follow. My belief is that they were not inspecting the car to any level of meaningful detail during service visits.

I also agree with the idea of leasing (we lease my wife's GLS 450), I was just hoping to buy a car I could rely on to own for the next 5-7 years without fear of major mechanical breakdown or sever devaluation (Both of which hit me this time!)

UPDATE: I spoke to the Sales Mgr and he is pissed! Not at me, just at the service folks for not bringing the situation to his attention. He said "Of course, we would have taken it on trade" No mention of how much, have to assume it would be an ugly figure based on the most recent diagnosis. he said he "Really hated to lose a good customer to the dealership and the brand." I said "I might be back one day, sh*& happens, this was just a rough sequence of events"

He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
I see what's going on.

Service and Parts have their own P&L vs sales at dealerships.

Both are commission based compensation.

The service department used "scare tactics" to try to get you to pay of up for repairs. Most likely they listed all the possible or likely places for your engine to leak oil and threw in the possibility of the stems being bad too.

The sales guy got pissed because they might lose out on a sale.
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      02-25-2020, 03:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
Yikes! Tough crowd. I agree that I technically took the risk by owning the car out side of warranty, it just feels a bit suspicious that the issue was just noticed as I have been consuming oil at a crazy pace with immediate visits to the dealership to follow. My belief is that they were not inspecting the car to any level of meaningful detail during service visits.

I also agree with the idea of leasing (we lease my wife's GLS 450), I was just hoping to buy a car I could rely on to own for the next 5-7 years without fear of major mechanical breakdown or sever devaluation (Both of which hit me this time!)

UPDATE: I spoke to the Sales Mgr and he is pissed! Not at me, just at the service folks for not bringing the situation to his attention. He said "Of course, we would have taken it on trade" No mention of how much, have to assume it would be an ugly figure based on the most recent diagnosis. he said he "Really hated to lose a good customer to the dealership and the brand." I said "I might be back one day, sh*& happens, this was just a rough sequence of events"

He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
If you want to buy for the longer term past warranty but you still have a bad taste in your mouth afther the post warranty issues with your 5-series, then I would recommend you go with the 6-cyl engine in the 40i and not the V-8. The reliability of the V-8 (N63/S63) is not as good as the I-6 in general (in this case the B58 in the 40i). If you do a basic internet search you will see what I mean. Not saying that the N63/S63 is a turd of an engine, it is not from a performance perspective. But it has had it's share of more reliability issues in general than it's smaller siblings in the I-6 family of BMW engines.
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      02-25-2020, 03:51 PM   #17
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Have you read up on the Bang vs BMW lawsuit regarding the N63 engine? I just had my entire engine replaced at no charge under this settlement. 2013 550xi w/ 40k miles.

Basically, BMW will pay for a percentage (mileage dependent) of your engine replacement if your vehicle fails the oil consumption test.

https://f10.5post.com/forums/showthr...074012&page=19
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      02-25-2020, 04:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfoundnemo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
I mean, $20k for your trade, 11-14% + Incentives off MSRP, and base MF on a new lease would probably make it right... It seems you have made up your mind, though.
I agree, let them make it right by something like 20k trade and 20k credit or 15% off and base Rates.

Unfortunately it's too late and with BMW prepaid maintenance everything is included which makes it a disincentivized to go anywhere else. HOWEVER, if you do get another BMW from them:
I'd encourage you to go to an independent mechanic every 2 or 3 services or in between big services.

For all my previous cars (none of which Bmw or Mercedes): I took them to my neighbors shop for services so he could check them. If he found a problem, I'd then take it to 2 different dealerships to get prices quotes or warranty or major work done.

Time consuming and sometimes redundant, but it's worth it to me having flawlessly maintained multiple vehicles over time.
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      02-25-2020, 04:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
Yikes! Tough crowd. I agree that I technically took the risk by owning the car out side of warranty, it just feels a bit suspicious that the issue was just noticed as I have been consuming oil at a crazy pace with immediate visits to the dealership to follow. My belief is that they were not inspecting the car to any level of meaningful detail during service visits.

I also agree with the idea of leasing (we lease my wife's GLS 450), I was just hoping to buy a car I could rely on to own for the next 5-7 years without fear of major mechanical breakdown or sever devaluation (Both of which hit me this time!)

UPDATE: I spoke to the Sales Mgr and he is pissed! Not at me, just at the service folks for not bringing the situation to his attention. He said "Of course, we would have taken it on trade" No mention of how much, have to assume it would be an ugly figure based on the most recent diagnosis. he said he "Really hated to lose a good customer to the dealership and the brand." I said "I might be back one day, sh*& happens, this was just a rough sequence of events"

He did say he would do what he can to make it right, I just think I want to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
Yikes! Tough crowd. I agree that I technically took the risk by owning the car out side of warranty,

own for the next 5-7 years without fear of major mechanical breakdown or sever devaluation (Both of which hit me this time!)

move on.

Also, respectfully the reason all new cars have "sever devaluation" is not because of magical'depreciation' ; it's because of new car warranties that cover these "major mechanical breakdowns". Using your words.

A new BMW x7 costs $80k+ and a used one out of warranty will probably cost $30-40k because of the risk of those major break down issues. And with any high performance and high electronics, like your 1990s cell phone; it will eventually break down or not be as modern as today's equipment.
I personally just recently got ride of my Blackberry, but I can't blame Blackberry that the battery finally died.
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      02-26-2020, 07:49 AM   #20
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So, my wife thinks I should consider a lease with the car. I was dead set on buying this one but I think I would consider a lease if I knew it was a good deal. I leased a 7 series about 5 years ago and it seemed easier to find the money factors and residuals. Can anyone point me to that info? Would be looking at 15k/yr lease for 3 years.
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      02-26-2020, 10:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
So, my wife thinks I should consider a lease with the car. I was dead set on buying this one but I think I would consider a lease if I knew it was a good deal. I leased a 7 series about 5 years ago and it seemed easier to find the money factors and residuals. Can anyone point me to that info? Would be looking at 15k/yr lease for 3 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino15 View Post
So, my wife thinks I should consider a lease with the car. I was dead set on buying this one but I think I would consider a lease if I knew it was a good deal. I leased a 7 series about 5 years ago and it seemed easier to find the money factors and residuals. Can anyone point me to that info? Would be looking at 15k/yr lease for 3 years.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24193698

it's here
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      02-26-2020, 12:47 PM   #22
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This is the fundamental issue I have with BMW - we are all scared of owning a BMW out of warranty due to stories like this ... so we end up rewarding them by buying another product from them every few years. If they can’t make a product that is reliable, at this cost, for 75k miles - let’s leave. I really enjoy driving their cars - but the ownership experience is not fun and flat out scary over 60k miles.
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