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      11-20-2019, 02:15 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
lol come on, you're trolling. Do we get some of our premium back for not getting into an accident? Nope.

Good day
Then self-insure.
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      11-21-2019, 10:31 AM   #68
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If you find that any financial gain or damage is not worth pursuing, make it your "Life's Work" putting them on Social Media Blast. Especially on Google. Write a lengthy, detailed negative review.
Trust me, damage will be done.
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      11-21-2019, 02:27 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Then self-insure.
That's hilarious... and OSB knows why.

In California, you can post a $35,000 bond or deposit with DMV in lieu of insurance. That's the 15/30/5 minimum policy coverage that's been in effect since I took driver training in high school decades ago: $15,000 medical per person, max of $30,000 per incident, and $5,000 in property damage.

It has never been adjusted for inflation.

Anybody who drives a BMW would be a fool to carry minimum liability. A moment of inattention could cost millions in damage. A trip to the emergency room in an ambulance could cost more than $15K, and even a minor fender-bender can cost more than $5K in repairs.
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      11-21-2019, 02:34 PM   #70
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This is why I absolutely do not valet my cars, period. The only time I'm not driving my car is at the dealer for service where they drive it into the service area and back to me. At the dealer I make note of my mileage when I get in and out (to make sure it matches the sheet). I haven't yet had crazy mileage put on at the dealer, but if I did I'd raise hell since that is a hit to my warranty time and I'm not a fan of joy rides on my behalf.

The whole valet thing seems like a pure shit show. You pay someone else to damage your property and, supposedly, if you pay them a bit more they'll damage the next slob instead. All in the hopes of saving a few minutes parking? Better off paying the garage rate and parking yourself and walking 10 extra feet.

I would probably only be OK with a valet if I leased and the car was purely a rental in my eyes. Then it doesn't matter as much to me what they do as long as they don't scratch it. But I won't lease a car so I don't see them as rentals.
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      11-21-2019, 02:35 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
If you find that any financial gain or damage is not worth pursuing, make it your "Life's Work" putting them on Social Media Blast. Especially on Google. Write a lengthy, detailed negative review.
Trust me, damage will be done.
100% true. Did that with 2 car dealers & got things resolved real quick.

Also, find higher ups of companies on LinkedIn & message ALL of them. That gets things done as well.
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      11-21-2019, 02:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
That's hilarious... and OSB knows why.

In California, you can post a $35,000 bond or deposit with DMV in lieu of insurance. That's the 15/30/5 minimum policy coverage that's been in effect since I took driver training in high school decades ago: $15,000 medical per person, max of $30,000 per incident, and $5,000 in property damage.

It has never been adjusted for inflation.

Anybody who drives a BMW would be a fool to carry minimum liability. A moment of inattention could cost millions in damage. A trip to the emergency room in an ambulance could cost more than $15K, and even a minor fender-bender can cost more than $5K in repairs.
lol depends on the BMW. Some are old & worth nothing
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      11-21-2019, 02:37 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Then self-insure.
Typical response when you can't have a legit discussion about the real problem. Good day
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      11-21-2019, 02:53 PM   #74
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Let me outline this for everyone (ex-journalist here who dealt with this on a weekly, if not daily, basis for nearly 20 years):

- The law in question is an extension of the wire tapping law passed way back in the Watergate/Cold War days. Basically, a conversation between two parties cannot be recorded by a third party under any circumstances if neither party is aware of the recording. One party must give prior consent. This is Federal law.

- By extension, states were allowed to require an extra burden on top of that law that requires both parties to give prior consent. Pennsylvania is one of those states.

This law applies to any recording. Video is a recording -- even without sound.

So as much as some of you might disagree with this law, it is law. Did the valet have the right to do what he did? By law, he did. Sorry OP, but what you're doing technically breaks Pennsylvania law.

Either there is fine print somewhere in the valet's agreement that states that customers must deactivate cameras, or you needed to notify the valets that you had an operating camera in the car. One or the other had to happen -- and it's not so much an issue of what that camera would record the valet doing as much as it is what the camera would record people around your car doing. That, by definition, is double-blind recording and would likely break Federal law -- and the valey company might be as liable for that as you would be because they were not aware you had an operating camera in your vehicle.

Sorry. Flame me all you want. I really don't care. The law is the law.
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      11-21-2019, 02:57 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Let me outline this for everyone (ex-journalist here who dealt with this on a weekly, if not daily, basis for nearly 20 years):

- The law in question is an extension of the wire tapping law passed way back in the Watergate/Cold War days. Basically, a conversation between two parties cannot be recorded by a third party under any circumstances if neither party is aware of the recording. One party must give prior consent. This is Federal law.

- By extension, states were allowed to require an extra burden on top of that law that requires both parties to give prior consent. Pennsylvania is one of those states.

This law applies to any recording. Video is a recording -- even without sound.

So as much as some of you might disagree with this law, it is law. Did the valet have the right to do what he did? By law, he did. Sorry OP, but what you're doing technically breaks Pennsylvania law.

Either there is fine print somewhere in the valet's agreement that states that customers must deactivate cameras, or you needed to notify the valets that you had an operating camera in the car. One or the other had to happen -- and it's not so much an issue of what that camera would record the valet doing as much as it is what the camera would record people around your car doing. That, by definition, is double-blind recording and would likely break Federal law -- and the valey company might be as liable for that as you would be because they were not aware you had an operating camera in your vehicle.

Sorry. Flame me all you want. I really don't care. The law is the law.
Are dash cams not permitted as evidence in court? So unless the opposing party (ie. driver that ran in front of you on purpose) gives you consent to use it against them, you can't?
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      11-21-2019, 03:09 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Wolf 335 View Post
Are dash cams not permitted as evidence in court? I guess unless the opposing party gives you consent to use it against them, you can't?
My guess would be they are permitted in states with the one-party rule. My state, Texas, is one of those -- dashcams have definitely been used as key evidence in many high-profile cases.

In two-party states, they would theoretically be admissible only if the recording party somehow advertised that a recording was, or could be in progress. I'm willing to bet that LEOs in Pennsylvania have window stickers on patrol vehicles that state this -- that likely explains the existence of the Google (and other) stickers available for civilian vehicles, too.

The key is advertising that you're recording. Civilians plainly holding up an iPhone to record video is, by gesture, advertising that they are recording. Using a big honkin' video camera with a big red 'recording' LED shining bright is advertising that you're recording. Hiding equipment so that it's not easily noticed -- or not notifying those around you that you have such a device in operation -- is NOT advertising that you're recording.

Think about it this way: The entire reason home security system makers all but require you to advertise (with a yard sign, or a window sticker, or somesuch) that you have a security system -- something that sounds counterproductive on its face to many -- is to protect both the company and the owner from illegal recording liability in two-party-consent states.
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      11-21-2019, 03:17 PM   #77
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lol nothing happened to ur car.

dont valet....if your somewhere where its a must; then weigh your options. I assume everyone besides my friends or family will leave their BO nastiness and curb both my wheels.
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      11-21-2019, 07:13 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
Here is my guess. He unplugged it worried it would drain the battery. It was already parked when he saw the camera.
BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Worth noting that some states it's illegal to record without consent, especially audio recordings. Not taking sides here, just advising caution as your videos contain audio and PA is a 2 party consent state (assuming that's where the video was taken).
More BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yapakanichi View Post
This is going to be a big lesson hopefully learned. OP I say make it rain on his parade. I wouldn't allow that to happen.

I'd lawyer up too for damages (foot stomp) while the car was in their hands if they don't play nice. Maybe you have a case, maybe you don't. And if you're a lawyer, stomp em.
Get real

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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
They have every right to disconnect the camera.
Troll.
See Viffer response.

Kind regards,

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      11-21-2019, 08:54 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Let me outline this for everyone (ex-journalist here who dealt with this on a weekly, if not daily, basis for nearly 20 years):

- The law in question is an extension of the wire tapping law passed way back in the Watergate/Cold War days. Basically, a conversation between two parties cannot be recorded by a third party under any circumstances if neither party is aware of the recording. One party must give prior consent. This is Federal law.

- By extension, states were allowed to require an extra burden on top of that law that requires both parties to give prior consent. Pennsylvania is one of those states.

This law applies to any recording. Video is a recording -- even without sound.

So as much as some of you might disagree with this law, it is law. Did the valet have the right to do what he did? By law, he did. Sorry OP, but what you're doing technically breaks Pennsylvania law.

Either there is fine print somewhere in the valet's agreement that states that customers must deactivate cameras, or you needed to notify the valets that you had an operating camera in the car. One or the other had to happen -- and it's not so much an issue of what that camera would record the valet doing as much as it is what the camera would record people around your car doing. That, by definition, is double-blind recording and would likely break Federal law -- and the valey company might be as liable for that as you would be because they were not aware you had an operating camera in your vehicle.

Sorry. Flame me all you want. I really don't care. The law is the law.
IANAL

That being said, I would disagree with you that the valet was justified in unplugging the camera. Even if the valet agreement noted that the camera isn't allowed and/or the law notes the camera as illegal. The valet would have the right to refuse to valet the car, but I don't agree he would be justified in making modifications to the car as he sees fit to bring it into his interpretation of legal compliance. Who would be responsible for the repair costs if his modifications cause damage as the OP alleges here? As, after all, neither you nor I can assert what is permissible under the law unless it has been duly adjudicated by the courts.

Court adjudication is very important because there are carveouts in the PA law for recordings. Every store you walk into in PA has surveillance cameras and there are no signs or loud speaker announcements letting you know this recording is occurring. The same is true for all of the cameras placed on public transit vehicles in Philadelphia (all public transit vehicles have dash cams facing externally and on all areas internally). Many of these cameras are even hooked into the Philadelphia Police Real-Time Crime Center allowing police to monitor cameras in real time across the city. Without huge signs or loud speaker announcements or consent forms. As a non-lawyer I can't speak to the carveout the courts have adjudicated, but it isn't a claim a valet attendant can adjudicate and the car should have been refused if it violates valet company policies.
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      11-22-2019, 01:58 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
lol depends on the BMW. Some are old & worth nothing
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
That's hilarious... and OSB knows why.

In California, you can post a $35,000 bond or deposit with DMV in lieu of insurance. That's the 15/30/5 minimum policy coverage that's been in effect since I took driver training in high school decades ago: $15,000 medical per person, max of $30,000 per incident, and $5,000 in property damage.

It has never been adjusted for inflation.

Anybody who drives a BMW would be a fool to carry minimum liability. A moment of inattention could cost millions in damage. A trip to the emergency room in an ambulance could cost more than $15K, and even a minor fender-bender can cost more than $5K in repairs.
<sigh>

Note that I specifically said liability coverage, which pays for the other guy's losses, not yours.

If a kid runs into the street between two parked cars and I can't stop in time, it doesn't matter if I'm driving my BMW, my twenty year old Ford F150 pickup or my friend's Bentayga... they're going to come after me for everything I own. That's why I have several million dollars in coverage.
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      11-22-2019, 02:08 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
IANAL
No kidding. No lawyer world use versions of the word "adjudicate" four times in two paragraphs. That's what happens when people imitate what they hear on TV legal dramas.

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      11-22-2019, 03:36 AM   #82
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LMAOOOO guys come on now the LAW is up for interpretation. welcome to the harshest reailty of AMERIKA
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      11-22-2019, 07:48 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Let me outline this for everyone (ex-journalist here who dealt with this on a weekly, if not daily, basis for nearly 20 years):

- The law in question is an extension of the wire tapping law passed way back in the Watergate/Cold War days. Basically, a conversation between two parties cannot be recorded by a third party under any circumstances if neither party is aware of the recording. One party must give prior consent. This is Federal law.

- By extension, states were allowed to require an extra burden on top of that law that requires both parties to give prior consent. Pennsylvania is one of those states.

This law applies to any recording. Video is a recording -- even without sound.

So as much as some of you might disagree with this law, it is law. Did the valet have the right to do what he did? By law, he did. Sorry OP, but what you're doing technically breaks Pennsylvania law.

Either there is fine print somewhere in the valet's agreement that states that customers must deactivate cameras, or you needed to notify the valets that you had an operating camera in the car. One or the other had to happen -- and it's not so much an issue of what that camera would record the valet doing as much as it is what the camera would record people around your car doing. That, by definition, is double-blind recording and would likely break Federal law -- and the valey company might be as liable for that as you would be because they were not aware you had an operating camera in your vehicle.

Sorry. Flame me all you want. I really don't care. The law is the law.
The valet was warned. The camera said it was recording. At that point the valet if they do not consent should get out, close the door, lock it and talk w/their boss. They do not have the right to modify or damage other people's property.
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      11-22-2019, 08:50 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
No kidding. No lawyer world use versions of the word "adjudicate" four times in two paragraphs. That's what happens when people imitate what they hear on TV legal dramas.


I wasn't trying to emulate anything. My point was very simple and I don't think it takes a law degree to understand. The valet wouldn't be within his legal rights to modify a car because he thinks it isn't legal...

Why resort to personal attacks and charges that I'm emulating something or trying to pretend I'm a lawyer?
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      11-22-2019, 09:02 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
Typical response when you can't have a legit discussion about the real problem. Good day
You think insurance is a scam because if you don't have a claim, you should get your premium back. How can you have a legit discussion with someone who doesn't even understand pooling risk?

Enjoy derping through your weekend.
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      11-22-2019, 09:34 AM   #86
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I've been ferrying my mother or father to the hospital a lot lately to see the other one in the hospital. The facility has valet service and I have been letting them take my people hauler (Lexus GS350) so that I could focus on the elderly person in my care. The last two times IN A ROW I did this, the valets f**ked with my car. Windows opened, radio turned on and station changed, evidence of many buttons and controls having been operated. The last time I had to stop, get out, and close the hood! Because they had unlatched it.

No valet drives any of my cars anymore, even my 'beater' cars.
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      11-22-2019, 10:26 AM   #87
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One of my worse valet experiences.

A city suburb was reinventing itself, became popular but didn't have sufficient parking at the time. So I valeted my car. Sitting in a restaurant, window seat, I watch as the valet company drove my car from illegal parking spot to illegal spot. Then since I was staying later they handed me my key and pointed to where they parked the car. When I go leave, I see a ticket on the windshield b/c it was illegally parked. Luckily when I called the valet company they took care of the ticket, guess their cost of doing business.

Last edited by omasou; 11-23-2019 at 11:03 AM..
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      11-22-2019, 10:58 AM   #88
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I worked valet for 2 1/2 years when I was age 16-18. Dealt with a lot of crap. There are soooo many characters here in SoCal. IMO the best way to go about valeting your car is simply avoiding it. If it's the only option you pull up and treat valet employee as an equal since he/she is just another face hustling for paper, take a video of your odometer and a walk around of the car and let the valet driver know you did that and if you have a Dashcam or any radar detector let them know as well. This will ensure the driver to NOT joyride the car if they were planning to and take extra good care of it if they weren't going to already.

Quick side note: most valet employees don't know the difference between a 320 and M3CS they're just there for the paycheck. If you have a 6 speed avoid valet at all costs. This applies to SoCal mostly idk about other states but most restaurants and event venues don't have a credible valet company, they just pay people cash to park cars (don't ask how I know ).

BOTTOM LINE: No ones gonna treat your car like you so avoid valet to sleep comfortably at nights.
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