M5 V M4 ?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

The current M3 is over 3700 pounds not sure it can make 3300 pounds due to the M4 is larger than the 3.

A base 428i is currently under 3,500lbs. Think about it. The M4 only needs to lose 200lbs to get under 3,300lbs. The weight savings will be achieved through good use of carbon fiber as in the standard Carbon Fiber CSL trunk, Carbon Fiber seats and other parts such as Carbon Ceramic brakes, CF wheels, CF windshield, and CF tires, CF steering wheel, CF shifter paddles, and of course CF iDrive screen. It's totally within the realm of possibility.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Porsche wasnt even in the conversation i was strictly comparing m3 to m5 based on comments.

So more hp equals more performance?

Straight line performance is ONE aspect.

Drive an m5 around a track and then drive the now 6 year old current m3 around the track and tell me which performs better in all ways. The way the f10 outperforms the e60, the e8x will to the e9x. New model vs new model the gap would be even more.

I love m5s! They are my dream super sedan (until the damn m6gc came out) - but to think it outperforms a smaller more nimble car in all around performance is just laughable.

It also comes down to the driver. You dont get all the performance a car brings to the table. You get as much as you can extract from it personally.

Yes indeed. I speculate the next M5 will not feature more hq and tq but rather a drastic reduction in weight as well. They're already designing a G-series 7-Series that is going to be lighter than today's F1x 5-Series. Lets not forget more advanced traction management systems that don't include AWD.

[B-1Pilot]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

The weight savings will be achieved through good use of carbon fiber as in the standard Carbon Fiber CSL trunk, Carbon Fiber seats and other parts such as Carbon Ceramic brakes, CF wheels, CF windshield, and CF tires, CF steering wheel, CF shifter paddles, and of course CF iDrive screen. It's totally within the realm of possibility.

Your comment made me think of this.. with the way people throw around the term carbon fiber: chocolate milk

[boots]

Thank you Vic. You da man! That new version is gonna be just awesome. Congrats.

[nugent]

an m5 will lap an m3 at most tracks. you'll just need a pit crew to change your tires, pads and hose down the engine every 20 minutes.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by nugent

an m5 will lap an m3 at most tracks. you'll just need a pit crew to change your tires, pads and hose down the engine every 20 minutes.

Big straight line tracks? Lol.

I will say it is a beast though im not saying its not. But its even more so of a highway destroyer/obliterator/megatron than a scapel in the turns.

But ok you guys win. See yall at the track!!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Big straight line tracks? Lol.

I will say it is a beast though im not saying its not. But its even more so of a highway destroyer/obliterator/megatron than a scapel in the turns.

But ok you guys win. See yall at the track!!

I've driven both at the track and so have many other people. The M3 is a 1000x easier to drive on the track. It takes some serious skill to produce some good lap times in the M5, but it you can still achieve as good or better exit speeds out of the apex in the F10 M5 as you can the E92 M3. I think both are equally fun though. The M3 just feels SO nimble, while the torque in the M5 is almost incomprehensible. The M4 with like 400lbs less than the M3 and almost 1000lbs less than the M5 with 400tq is going to feel like Porsche GT3 levels of excitement I'm guessing. Plus the Carbon Fiber door handles are going to help the M4 out considerably.

I think it was Rob///M5 who said he was lapping M3's at one track day he did.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I've driven both at the track and so have many other people. The M3 is a 1000x easier to drive on the track. It takes some serious skill to produce some good lap times in the M5, but it you can still achieve as good or better exit speeds out of the apex in the F10 M5 as you can the E92 M3. I think both are equally fun though. The M3 just feels SO nimble, while the torque in the M5 is almost incomprehensible. The M4 with like 400lbs less than the M3 and almost 1000lbs less than the M5 with 400tq is going to feel like Porsche GT3 levels of excitement I'm guessing. Plus the Carbon Fiber door handles are going to help the M4 out considerably.

I think it was Rob///M5 who said he was lapping M3's at one track day he did.

I mean i was lapping m3s in an f30 328i lol. And lapping f10 m5 in my e90 m3 so thats on the driver. But an old model of the m3 is pretty close to the new m5. How is the new m3/4 gonna fair agaisnt it? I would say better. We get turbos too now

When i turn my e90 into a full blown track car (yes not optimal but fun) i may need to go SC to keep up on big tracks with all the gobs of power these cars are putting out now. I can totally see the m5 gobble up the m3 on bigger tracks but not on more technical tracks with a lot of ubdulation, off camber turns, blah blah out here in california.

[nugent]

I'll be at Infineon next month, which is a pretty technical track. it has walls that are very close, off camber turns, esses, blind turns. but I'm pretty sure my lap times will be faster than in my e92. adjusting braking points to account for the higher speeds will be the challenge.

[DocMick]

id rather get a 335d

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Porsche wasnt even in the conversation i was strictly comparing m3 to m5 based on comments.

So more hp equals more performance?

Straight line performance is ONE aspect.

Drive an m5 around a track and then drive the now 6 year old current m3 around the track and tell me which performs better in all ways. The way the f10 outperforms the e60, the e8x will to the e9x. New model vs new model the gap would be even more.

I love m5s! They are my dream super sedan (until the damn m6gc came out) - but to think it outperforms a smaller more nimble car in all around performance is just laughable.

It also comes down to the driver. You dont get all the performance a car brings to the table. You get as much as you can extract from it personally.

Duh you have to drive car we all know that! If you read the threads there has been a 911 discussion going for some time on this board. This group loves the M5 and others makes good conversation. Still say the M5 pound the M3, staright line is a no brainer (:

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by nugent

I'll be at Infineon next month, which is a pretty technical track. it has walls that are very close, off camber turns, esses, blind turns. but I'm pretty sure my lap times will be faster than in my e92. adjusting braking points to account for the higher speeds will be the challenge.

Post vids! Have you guys thought of asking moderators to create a track section? Sub 1:50 would be a great time.

Honestly im in here to check out your guys' cars.

I will just be ignoring some people's posts.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by nugent

adjusting braking points to account for the higher speeds will be the challenge.

That is really the key in the M5 and M6. Also managing all of the crazy torque when coming out of the turn without breaking traction requires extremely precise throttle control. Luckily with throttle response set on Sport+, we can achieve that level of precise control.

[Stiggly]

Seems we have gone 'off beam' a little

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Yes indeed. I speculate the next M5 will not feature more hq and tq but rather a drastic reduction in weight as well. They're already designing a G-series 7-Series that is going to be lighter than today's F1x 5-Series. Lets not forget more advanced traction management systems that don't include AWD.

Good points all around! I still love the M5(:

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Um last I check the M3 never out performed the M3 sorry pal. Big brother, and lil sister. It's not a productive conversation to say th least. The M5 has 560 HP, and let's discuss when the weight on the M3 comes out. Not crazy by the way had an M3, and it was heavy by the way. 991 is the ticket if you want performance.

Big brother and lil sister? Sheesh, why all the hate? At least "lil brother" would be reasonable, but you've gotta get mean about it!

I think one of the first responses to the OP said it best when they noted, "apples to oranges." These are completely different cars for completely different purposes. The M3 is hardly a "little sister" to the M5. No one who wants an M3 for its intended purpose (somewhat luxurious mid-size vehicle with the handling and power to make a fun track-day car) is looking to "step up" to an M5. The M5 is a different beast altogether: true luxury, full-size with an incredible amount of power and great handling. When I eventually look to "step up" from the M3 it will be to a 911 C2S. The C2S is a legitimate "big brother" to the M3; a car with a very similar purpose, but at a much higher price point to account for its legendary handling and pedigree.

With that said, I'd love to have an M5 someday--it is true luxury and performance wrapped up in one elegant package. But it isn't a "replacement" for a mid-size high performance vehicle to use on the track. If you spend much time at the Nurburgring, nearly half of all the cars out there are M3s and 911s--and that's for a reason. I have an M3 right now, but someday I'll have that 911 as my "step up." If I'm lucky enough, it will be sitting in the garage next to my M5.

You have my dream garage, you lucky bastard.

[M54ccibo]

M5 vs. M4. I've always been in the M5 camp, primarily due to the heritage. When I could finally afford a BMW I couldn't get over the "3er feel" in the E9x M3. Sure, DCT and engine are freaking phenomenal The part of me that wanted a BMW also wanted some luxury.

Now, that I have been bitten by the track bug if I had to have one car, to serve as a DD and monthly track-day usage I would absolutely sell the F10 M5 and get E92 M3. But, since the M4 is going to be out shortly I am very interested in this car and see how it stacks against the E92. How light will it be? How is the tq being delivered? Would there be a small step up in creature comforts? How about the steering?

Count me in the group that will potentially be "down grading", but I don't see it that way. Pick the right tool for the job. Monster straight line speed with all of the lux items and occasion track fun == M5. Frequent track usage and a more driver's oriented focus in exchange for lux == M3/4.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by M54ccibo

How about the steering?

This is a HUGE question. The M4 will be the first true ///M car to have Electric Steering. I dunno, to early to tell about how it will be and feel. Seems that Porsche managed to nail their electric steering even in the 2014 GT3, so anything is possible. I for one am afraid though. BMW's electric steering still has much further to go.

[nybimmerfan]

From what I have read the M4 = M3, i.e. an M3 renamed as M4, period. Is is most probably a marketing ploy by BMW.

[nugent]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

That is really the key in the M5 and M6. Also managing all of the crazy torque when coming out of the turn without breaking traction requires extremely precise throttle control. Luckily with throttle response set on Sport+, we can achieve that level of precise control.

yes that will be key as well.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Sapper_M3

Big brother and lil sister? Sheesh, why all the hate? At least "lil brother" would be reasonable, but you've gotta get mean about it!

I think one of the first responses to the OP said it best when they noted, "apples to oranges." These are completely different cars for completely different purposes. The M3 is hardly a "little sister" to the M5. No one who wants an M3 for its intended purpose (somewhat luxurious mid-size vehicle with the handling and power to make a fun track-day car) is looking to "step up" to an M5. The M5 is a different beast altogether: true luxury, full-size with an incredible amount of power and great handling. When I eventually look to "step up" from the M3 it will be to a 911 C2S. The C2S is a legitimate "big brother" to the M3; a car with a very similar purpose, but at a much higher price point to account for its legendary handling and pedigree.

With that said, I'd love to have an M5 someday--it is true luxury and performance wrapped up in one elegant package. But it isn't a "replacement" for a mid-size high performance vehicle to use on the track. If you spend much time at the Nurburgring, nearly half of all the cars out there are M3s and 911s--and that's for a reason. I have an M3 right now, but someday I'll have that 911 as my "step up." If I'm lucky enough, it will be sitting in the garage next to my M5.

You have my dream garage, you lucky bastard.

Well said on all fronts(:

[clar]

Originally Posted by Sapper_M3

Big brother and lil sister? Sheesh, why all the hate? At least "lil brother" would be reasonable, but you've gotta get mean about it!

I think one of the first responses to the OP said it best when they noted, "apples to oranges." These are completely different cars for completely different purposes. The M3 is hardly a "little sister" to the M5. No one who wants an M3 for its intended purpose (somewhat luxurious mid-size vehicle with the handling and power to make a fun track-day car) is looking to "step up" to an M5. The M5 is a different beast altogether: true luxury, full-size with an incredible amount of power and great handling. When I eventually look to "step up" from the M3 it will be to a 911 C2S. The C2S is a legitimate "big brother" to the M3; a car with a very similar purpose, but at a much higher price point to account for its legendary handling and pedigree.

With that said, I'd love to have an M5 someday--it is true luxury and performance wrapped up in one elegant package. But it isn't a "replacement" for a mid-size high performance vehicle to use on the track. If you spend much time at the Nurburgring, nearly half of all the cars out there are M3s and 911s--and that's for a reason. I have an M3 right now, but someday I'll have that 911 as my "step up." If I'm lucky enough, it will be sitting in the garage next to my M5.

You have my dream garage, you lucky bastard.

I love them both and yeah, they serve different purpose indeed with different priorities in their design. However, both hail from the same gene pool and lineage, so they do share certain traits. The regular 991 C2S is hardly what i would call a big brother to the M3. I can never quite comprehend how an E9x M3 owner could ever go gaga over the current C2S. I couldn't find anything to like over my E92 M3 apart from the smaller and lighter footprint. Everything else is a step down from the M3 esp the sound!