M4 GTS as an Investment?

[Mario_Kart]

Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture

i agree



its been announced already? its already being tested, Not sure why doubt BMW when they have indeed announced it

where and when did BMW announced a M4 CSL? Show me.

[MB London]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I think that all depends on if the purported CSL models start rolling out. The 'ring time and performance of the GTS is undeniable, but perhaps the small amount of produced is what is driving the cost.

If I were going to invest, I would want to be sure that other comparable models were sure not to be released as not to dilute the desirability of the GTS.


Rumor has it there will be CSL models of all coupe M's. If the GTS is a gap-car to carry us into the era of more extreme M's, I would be uber pissed off if I stretched for the GTS only to see cars as desirable for less money, even if they are produced in slightly higher numbers.

That is why I pulled my deposit on the GTS yesterday. That, and I do not think I could swing the price if it's coming in over $100k.

they wont be doing a CSL and a GTS line, as per the e9X there will only be the GTS. I really wouldn't hold your breath for a CSL F82

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture

its been announced already?

No.

its already being tested, Not sure why doubt BMW when they have indeed announced it

A concept is coming later this year. Nothing is known yet regarding if and when it will become an actual product you can buy.

[jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by Mario_Kart

where and when did BMW announced a M4 CSL? Show me.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1167857

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1167857

But as you know, that's not an official BMW announcement. Furthermore, in the past there have been plenty of ideas brought forth by SCOTT that don't come to pass or play out differently than originally presented.

There is no product yet. Period.

[jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

But as you know, that's not an official BMW announcement. Furthermore, in the past there have been plenty of ideas brought forth by SCOTT that don't come to pass or play out differently than originally presented.

There is no product yet. Period.

No problem

I'm just passing along what ever information I've seen

My rep who has been on point about the gts has hinted at the csl also

I hope it does come! Would be very cool

And if it's supposed to be that different of a car then the gts I don't see it impacting the pricing at all

[MB London]

the isn't enough space in the market segment to have two mad variants of a mad car

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by teapotc

I'm going to invest in some limited edition car. I think the 991 GT3 was built around 2000-3500 copies. And M4 GTS only goes around 700, which is 1/3 of gt3. I am considering ordering two as inventory. Do you guys think M4 GTS is collectable? I can't find any reselling price of 2011 M3 GTS as reference. Thanks for all opinions.

No, cars are crap investments. If you invest your 100k elsewhere at a meager 5% interest 10 years turns it into $162,889 and 20 years turns it into $265,369.77.

Compound interest is your friend, investing is cars is not. If you want the car then get it, but never consider any automobile an "investment" unless you have a hangar sized garage and its already a collectible, and make sure you also factor in the cost of running such an elaborate facility if you are so lucky.

[RPChan]

Originally Posted by brianeck

No, cars are crap investments. If you invest your 100k elsewhere at a meager 5% interest 10 years turns it into $162,889 and 20 years turns it into $265,369.77.

Compound interest is your friend, investing is cars is not. If you want the car then get it, but never consider any automobile an "investment" unless you have a hangar sized garage and its already a collectible, and make sure you also factor in the cost of running such an elaborate facility if you are so lucky.

Dang! I guess I should get rid of my Alpina Z8. It's only gone up by 100% in 12 years. Should have stuck with compound interest!

[M4chiavellif82]

Originally Posted by adc

Try getting a GT3 RS - the previous gen 4.0 if you can swing it. 991 RS too only if you can get in the first wave, meaning buy from dealer.

These could bring you an easy $100k in just a few years.


The GTS is unknown. I'd only buy an original M1 as the only BMW investment, nothing else. 1M is worthless as investment IMO.

why is 1m worthless as an investment? anyone who bought this car in 2011 have been driving it and putting miles on it and can sell it for more than they originally paid for. In Europe the supply is abundance and isn't an investment but here in the usa I have only seen prices going up. I personally don't think it's anything super special but the market is dictating otherwise.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by RPChan

Dang! I guess I should get rid of my Alpina Z8. It's only gone up by 100% in 12 years. Should have stuck with compound interest!

That's roughly equivalent to 5% compound interest, so you're really not proving anything at all.

50k after 12 years at 5% compounding is $89,972.

Factor in the "garage space rent" (or the % value of your mortgage added by the garage etc.), heating/AC (climate dependent), maintenance, etc and you're probably well under the figure quoted above as your bottom line once again, further validating my point.

I love when people add fuel to the fire without understanding the concepts involved. I'm trying to help the OP not make an unsound financial decision and here you are being sarcastic and still not seeing that you didn't make a GREAT investment either.

For anyone else who has any bright ideas about how their car was a "great investment" first please use this simple calculator to determine whether or not its post worthy: https://www.investor.gov/tools/calcu...est-calculator

THEN please factor in other costs associated with keeping and maintaining a car for the length of time in question. While there are a *very select few situations where you may come out on top, over all, 99.9% of cars are crap investments. You can get lucky buying just about any type of property, security, or asset in the entire world, cars included. . . But if you're looking at investing for long term capital game please do your research. On the other hand if you're looking to buy a car and enjoy it go right the heck ahead and do so!

[RPChan]

Originally Posted by brianeck

That's roughly equivalent to 5% compound interest, so you're really not proving anything at all.

50k after 12 years at 5% compounding is $89,972.

Factor in the "garage space rent" (or the % value of your mortgage added by the garage etc.), heating/AC (climate dependent), maintenance, etc and you're probably well under the figure quoted above as your bottom line once again, further validating my point.

I love when people add fuel to the fire without understanding the concepts involved. I'm trying to help the OP not make an unsound financial decision and here you are being sarcastic and still not seeing that you didn't make a GREAT investment either.

For anyone else who has any bright ideas about how their car was a "great investment" first please use this simple calculator to determine whether or not its post worthy: https://www.investor.gov/tools/calcu...est-calculator

THEN please factor in other costs associated with keeping and maintaining a car for the length of time in question. While there are a *very select few situations where you may come out on top, over all, 99.9% of cars are crap investments. You can get lucky buying just about any type of property, security, or asset in the entire world, cars included. . . But if you're looking at investing for long term capital game please do your research. On the other hand if you're looking to buy a car and enjoy it go right the heck ahead and do so!

100% improvement is $130k. So the car is now worth $260k. I think my masters in finance helped me understand the concepts of compounding interest. The fact is limited production cars can be a great investment. The costs of your garage (heating, cooling, mortgage interest, etc) are sunk costs that will occur regardless of your purchase. To try to spread them into your automobile cost is stretching it.

I can't think of a better way to enjoy my money. I watched my father pass on two Gullwing Mercedes in 1972, his choice for $12k. Looking at the value of those cars over the past 10 years I doubt he would be thankful he saved his $12k rather than spending it, enjoying the ownership and selling in a seven digit market.

Are all exotics good investments? Heck no! Neither are equities that u think are "sure things". It is all speculative but with cars it is a lot more fun!

[Jet Mech]

I bought mine new for 48k. I just turned 9000 miles of smiles.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bm...ther-m-models/

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by RPChan

100% improvement is $130k. So the car is now worth $260k. I think my masters in finance helped me understand the concepts of compounding interest. The fact is limited production cars can be a great investment. The costs of your garage (heating, cooling, mortgage interest, etc) are sunk costs that will occur regardless of your purchase. To try to spread them into your automobile cost is stretching it.

I can't think of a better way to enjoy my money. I watched my father pass on two Gullwing Mercedes in 1972, his choice for $12k. Looking at the value of those cars over the past 10 years I doubt he would be thankful he saved his $12k rather than spending it, enjoying the ownership and selling in a seven digit market.

Are all exotics good investments? Heck no! Neither are equities that u think are "sure things". It is all speculative but with cars it is a lot more fun!

Totally fair response. I never said equities are a "sure thing" but with a well diversified group of them you'd struggle not to make 5% over 10+ years. . . With a well diversified group of cars, even limited production ones, you'd likely struggle to break even. An m5 also does not nearly classify as an exotic, and without actually having the numbers I would say there are likely quite a few more of them (in great shape as well) floating around then the Alpina Z8s which you were lucky enough to turn a pretty penny on (which was a rare car).

Like I said, there are totally, 100% super rare cars that you can make bank on if you make the right move at the right time. A high production factory model like an m5 is probably on the less likely side of the spectrum. It's more about scarcity, and your car and the 1M are two examples of appreciation in a sea of literally hundreds of BMW models which would have resulted in a net loss "as investments."

I don't mean to knock your know-how just provide a more "realistic" expectation for the OP, and I don't think you'd argue with my underlying point which is just that most cars are crap investments.

[RPChan]

Originally Posted by brianeck

Totally fair response. I never said equities are a "sure thing" but with a well diversified group of them you'd struggle not to make 5% over 10+ years. . . With a well diversified group of cars, even limited production ones, you'd likely struggle to break even. An m5 also does not nearly classify as an exotic, and without actually having the numbers I would say there are likely quite a few more of them (in great shape as well) floating around then the Alpina Z8s which you were lucky enough to turn a pretty penny on (which was a rare car).

Like I said, there are totally, 100% super rare cars that you can make bank on if you make the right move at the right time. A high production factory model like an m5 is probably on the less likely side of the spectrum. It's more about scarcity, and your car and the 1M are two examples of appreciation in a sea of literally hundreds of BMW models which would have resulted in a net loss "as investments."

I don't mean to knock your know-how just provide a more "realistic" expectation for the OP, and I don't think you'd argue with my underlying point which is just that most cars are crap investments.

Good points. I wouldn't buy any car that was a normal production car thinking it was ever going to be a break even or better proposition. People that own e30 M3's, old Porsche 930 turbos or old muscle cars are reaping the rewards of good luck.

I do think though that over the past 10 years the perspective on rare or limited production vehicles has changed and many people are looking at them speculatively. To a great degree they are creating their own market with a small number of potential buyers that are artificially driving up prices (see 70's vintage Porsches). There are a few cars though that might be a home run or at least have a much slower market depreciation. Some cars it is all about timing like the older NSX's. If you own one sell it now! When the new car is out in volume its market value will drop like a rock and so too will the old cars value again.

Cars like the 80's EVOII of BMW and Mercedes are limited enough they will continue to rise. If the GTS truly is limited to 700 cars worldwide and it remains BMW's fastest production car for a reasonable time it may very well have some upside or at least very limited downside. Agreeing with you that the majority of new cars are crap investments the potential limited downside of the GTS is fairly appealing. Of course BMW could kill that by bringing out an even faster GTS a year from now. Then all bets are off.

In every investment scenario a fool and his money will soon be parted (how much over MSRP?) but for a few (maybe our children 30 years from now) it will be a fun ride.

[hockey21]

buy a land rover defender or early 90's porsche if you want an investment.

[TT1351]

Remember the 95 BMW M3 LTW, pricey at the time, less than $50K, and other than a slightly different rear axle ratio, aluminum doors, a supposedly hand picked engine, no A/C. Radio, Sunroof, dual pick-up oil pump with associated oil pan, strut brace, cross brace, extendable front splitter, big rear wing, cloth seats, some fancy graphics and cloth interior and a few cf trim pieces and special badging, and forged wheels, they really didn't offer anything earth shattering as does the M4 GTS. With that said, I bought one new, still have it, still love it and have watched it increase to $100,000+ car for a decent, low mileage example. Back in the day these were not flying out the doors, but look at them now. Similarly there appears to be a glut of unsold GTS's available, I can only guess history may repeat itself, not overnight, but I suspect as these get thrashed, beaten on, tracked and race, an stolen good examples overtime will show an increase in value. Just my thoughts. Fran

[Sedan_Clan]

Hell, buy a 1M if you want an investment. I don't think the GTS will appreciate in cost.

[M2MG17]

Originally Posted by TT1351

Remember the 95 BMW M3 LTW, pricey at the time, less than $50K, and other than a slightly different rear axle ratio, aluminum doors, a supposedly hand picked engine, no A/C. Radio, Sunroof, dual pick-up oil pump with associated oil pan, strut brace, cross brace, extendable front splitter, big rear wing, cloth seats, some fancy graphics and cloth interior and a few cf trim pieces and special badging, and forged wheels, they really didn't offer anything earth shattering as does the M4 GTS. With that said, I bought one new, still have it, still love it and have watched it increase to $100,000+ car for a decent, low mileage example. Back in the day these were not flying out the doors, but look at them now. Similarly there appears to be a glut of unsold GTS's available, I can only guess history may repeat itself, not overnight, but I suspect as these get thrashed, beaten on, tracked and race, an stolen good examples overtime will show an increase in value. Just my thoughts. Fran

I agree market will be at or slightly below MSRP and in 5 years prices will start to climb again.

The production numbers are much lower than 1M and also GT3 RS so that will be the main driver for appreciation.

[jpdchicago]

To me, any car that maintains its original value is a good investment. Drive it, enjoy it and sell it 5 or ten years later for the same price. I think the gts is one of those.
Most cars lose 20% or more as soon as you leave the dealership and you are lucky if they are worth 50% of their value within 3 years. I believe the M4 gts will maintain its value.
In the mean time, the smile on my face for the next 5 years (at least) as I drive it to work and back: priceless!

[Efthreeoh]

As an investment?

[overcoil]

Not as an investment.
But I'd buy one as a collector car or prize possession.