Teaser: M4 GTS vs 911 GT3 at Hockenheim (Sport Auto)

[dgp]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The Carrera S did 7:44 and the new turbo'd 991.2 Carrera S did 7:34 (Sport Auto Supertest lap times)

And 991 GT3 in sport auto test did 7:32, we'll see what M4 GTS will do

[Captain Unknown GT4]

If you read the test on sachenring, they dyno the GTS, its a bit under 500hp!

It might be a mistake from your part, as you say 4 seconds?! Thats a lifetime! Its 4 tenths, thats less than 0,5 seconds, and yes that much faster I agree. Becuse after 20 laps a solid driver would be far, far in front.

Still 137kg is Killing time on track. Please understand that if you load the 991 GT3 with 137kg pork it would be slower than GTS as it only 0,4 sec faster when 137kg less than GTS. There is One reason they have penalty pork kg in racing, its to slow cars down!

As a matter of fact, last track event I was on had F1 driver Markus Ericsson join us. He spoke alot o how pork effect a car on track.

Turbo got awd, that is not same same as rwd cars. As well I just look up that turbo s in sport auto test, its 1595kg, thats same same as GTS. Still turbo s is 750nm and 560hp, dunlop sport maxx tire. Please see sport auto app, all data right there. The time 1.08,7 is turbo s! Please see GTS test on here, its same kg, like 1591kg or something?!

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I disagree with your logic. GTS may be heavier but it's also making a lot more torque (which is a huge advantage) and in reality I'd venture to say it's very underrated giving it a significant hp advantage too (dyno suggests 550 hp).
Both cars with equal power to weight, I'd put my money on the GT3. .4 seconds on hockenheim may not sound like a lot of time, but on a lap that short, it's significant. Just like a 1 second gap on a 2-3 min circuit would be a big difference.
Overall I'd say the GT3 and the RS even more so are the more special fees.

Just food for thought, a regular 911 turbo, which is heavier than the GTS and only 520 hp does Hockenheim in 1:08.7.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by dgp

And 991 GT3 in sport auto test did 7:32, we'll see what M4 GTS will do

Yes, I discussed the 2s difference in lap time between the GT3 and Carrera S a few posts back

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by VCP

From performance perspective the Carrera S was the focus. 7:52 M4 7:50 Carrera S

991 Carrera S is 7:37. 7:50 was for the 997.2 from 2009. Again not close.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

If you read the test on sachenring, they dyno the GTS, it under 500hp!

It might be a mistake from your part, as you say 4 seconds?! Thats a lifetime! Its 4 tents, thats less than 0,5 seconds, and yes that much faster I agree. Becuse after 20 laps a solid driver would be far, far in front.

137kg is Killing time on track. Please understand that if you load the 991 GT3 with 137kg pork it would be slower than GTS. As a matter of fact, last track event I was on had F1 driver Markus Ericsson join us. He spoke alot o how pork effect a car on track.

Turbo got awd, that is not same same as rwd cars. As well I just look up that turbo s in sport auto test, its 1595kg, thats same same as GTS. Still turbo s is 750nm and 560hp, dunlop sport maxx tire. Please see sport auto app, all data right there. The time 1.08,7 is turbo s! Please see GTS test on here, its same kg, like 1591kg or something?!

I said .4 seconds, not 4. I agree it's a lot and lap after lap it becomes even bigger.

I also was taking about the regular turbo which only has 520 hp. A turbo S is even faster. 1:08.7 is the base turbo. Turbo S was 1:08.5.

[VCP]

Nope. Not close.

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

991 Carrera S is 7:37. 7:50 was for the 997.2 from 2009. Again not close.

[dgp]

Originally Posted by VCP

Nope. Not close.

He's using porsche times vs sport auto times...apple to apple comparisons only

[Captain Unknown GT4]

The time 1.08,7 is from 1595kg full of fuel turbo s, its on 560hp and 750nm dunlop sport max. See sport auto app. Not to strange its fast car

Originally Posted by Boss330

I have only seen one dyno of the GTS and that said 49x hp at the flywheel. Which dyno showed 550hp?

That a 991 Turbo, with 20hp more than the GTS and a lower center of gravity, is lapping faster than the GT3 and GTS around Hockenheim just shows what a great base car the 991 is. But it's hardly surprising that a car with 520hp can beat a 500hp car, especially when the higher hp car has some design advantages to begin with (one is a sports car while the other is a coupe based on a 3-4 series family sedan/coupe).

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

991 Carrera S is 7:37. 7:50 was for the 997.2 from 2009. Again not close.

Since we dont have BMW factory lap times, the gold standard for Nurburgring lap times is the Sport Auto Supertest laps.

M4: 7:52
Carrera S: 7:44
Carrera S: 7:34 (updated version with turbo and much better tires)

So, the same gen M4 vs Carrera was 8s apart.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

The time 1.08,7 is from 1595kg full of fuel turbo s, its on 560hp and 750nm dunlop sport max. See sport auto app. Not to strange its fast car

Ok, I thought he said it was the Turbo, not the Turbo S. Didn't check his statements further.

[dgp]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Since we dont have BMW factory lap times, the gold standard for Nurburgring lap times is the Sport Auto Supertest laps.

M4: 7:52
Carrera S: 7:44
Carrera S: 7:34 (updated version with turbo and much better tires)

So, the same gen M4 vs Carrera was 8s apart.

Yeah- makes sense except I think M4 CP will compare better with 991.1 Carrera S and base Carrera with base M4. The sport auto times for M4 CP will probably be closer to 991.1 Carrera S as new 991.2 S is close to 991 GT3 laptimes.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

The more I think of it the more I see M4 GTS is big Bang For the buck. The speed and performance it deliver is top notch at that price. Its nr 16 on sport auto hockenheim list in regards of laptime. Thats some big dollar cars on that list. I guess sport auto and Christian G is like 3-5 sec slower than BMW factory GTS driver on Nur. Then its on 10 place on Nurburgring sport auto list. Propper fast this car For the money its cheep.

The GTS is based on a normal series production car with saloon/sedan DNA. Can you imagine if the rumours about a more focused Z5 or next gen 6 are correct and they build a GTS version of it? That would be a car I would love to drive and own.

[dgp]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Leave that to the CSL

Carrera -> M4
Carrera S -> M4 CP
GT3 -> M4 GTS
GT3 RS -> CSL

...leaving the AWD models out of the picture.

I think CSL will compare well to GT3 RS...

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

The more I think of it the more I see M4 GTS is big Bang For the buck. The speed and performance it deliver is top notch at that price. Its nr 16 on sport auto hockenheim list in regards of laptime. Thats some big dollar cars on that list. I guess sport auto and Christian G is like 3-5 sec slower than BMW factory GTS driver on Nur. Then its on 10 place on Nurburgring sport auto list. Propper fast this car For the money its cheep.

This echoes what Chris Harris said about the E92 GTS. You laugh at the price tag only until you drive one and realize what it does and how it compares to the others.

These types of cars, you're largely buying for two things: track work and badge. When comparing it to the GT3, there's nothing negative you can say about the GTS other than it doesn't have the prancing stallion.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

If you read the test on sachenring, they dyno the GTS, its a bit under 500hp!

It might be a mistake from your part, as you say 4 seconds?! Thats a lifetime! Its 4 tenths, thats less than 0,5 seconds, and yes that much faster I agree. Becuse after 20 laps a solid driver would be far, far in front.

Still 137kg is Killing time on track. Please understand that if you load the 991 GT3 with 137kg pork it would be slower than GTS as it only 0,4 sec faster when 137kg less than GTS. There is One reason they have penalty pork kg in racing, its to slow cars down!

As a matter of fact, last track event I was on had F1 driver Markus Ericsson join us. He spoke alot o how pork effect a car on track.

Turbo got awd, that is not same same as rwd cars. As well I just look up that turbo s in sport auto test, its 1595kg, thats same same as GTS. Still turbo s is 750nm and 560hp, dunlop sport maxx tire. Please see sport auto app, all data right there. The time 1.08,7 is turbo s! Please see GTS test on here, its same kg, like 1591kg or something?!

Actually the 991.2 Turbo Turbo S did a 1:08.5 sport auto time with the same driver on p zeros . Yep that's 1.1 seconds faster than the GTS on sport cup 2's on a street tire .

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Actually the 991.2 Turbo Turbo S did a 1:08.5 sport auto time with the same driver on p zeros . Yep that's 1.1 seconds faster than the GTS on sport cup 2's on a street tire .

While I didn't go into as much detail I did say exactly this. Plus when you account for tires, that would be an even better time on pilot cup 2s than it already is.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

You did a great job. I just got the magazine, GTS 1:09.6, and GT3 1:09.2.

And the acceleration figures were the same for both car, 0-100km 3.9, 0-160km 8.0, and 0-200km 12.3.

Gee, I wonder what car BMW used as a performance benchmark. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I still love the GT3. Sounds solo good.

[VCP]

Sure is. Understanding/accepting you may not be the best, but striving for it is very admirable. Never has BMW M claimed GTS to be "better" than the GT3. Leave that to this forum

Originally Posted by Ummm2

Gee, I wonder what car BMW used as a performance benchmark. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I still love the GT3. Sounds solo good.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Devilzmantis

Meh, Jeans + No Gloves = Newbie.

NO but really, that was awesome. I can feel the adrenaline rush just watching the video... imagine how it really feels in the cockpit.

If you aren't in shorts you're doing it wrong. Oh and a fanboi shirt from puma. Oh shit that's me

[deemo319]

Originally Posted by N & M

The GTS is based on a normal series production car with saloon/sedan DNA. Can you imagine if the rumours about a more focused Z5 or next gen 6 are correct and they build a GTS version of it? That would be a car I would love to drive and own.

The next generation 6 Series that will will transition from GT to a smaller and more performance orientation (I hope)?

Like this new render...

[adc]

There are many variables here: driver, suspension setup, tire condition etc. in my view, for what are absolutely positively NOT race cars, 0.4 sec difference means nothing. I would say the same thing even if the 0.4 sec advantage were reversed.

These cars are meant for people like us, who almost never extract the full potential in a car. They are meant for track days, 20-30 min sessions followed by tall tales at the lunch break. Driver confidence and skill account for many *seconds* or *tens of seconds* - don't act as if that's not the case.

What I am saying is that if you show up in one of these cars hoping to destroy someone in the other car, you might go home deflated.

Buy whichever speaks to you and enjoy in good health. Stop bickering about petty differences and bullshit nuances.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Yes, so what, that car has 580hp, still same same pork as Gts, even this turbo s is 1616kg. Still thats more or less same as Gts 1591kg.


We all know there are 2 turbo s times on list, 560hp and 580hp, it 1.08.7 and 1.08.5.....but some One here try to state thats a 520hp car, when its far from that. As well someone here try to make it out like porker was much more heavy-when it not. 560hp turbo s is same kg as Gts, 580 HP turbo s is a few more kg as it 1616kg thats it. No One find it strange this turbo s is faster than most cars on hockenheim! Not to strang on 750nm 560/580hp awd same weight as the lower power rwd M4 GTS.

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Actually the 991.2 Turbo Turbo S did a 1:08.5 sport auto time with the same driver on p zeros . Yep that's 1.1 seconds faster than the GTS on sport cup 2's on a street tire .