[mitch57]

Originally Posted by jmciver

What the dealer told you about the key fob is not exactly true, at least not how I understand it. Each time you drive the car, the car "syncs" with your key fob. So if you reset your oil service reminder, using the process in this video, when you start your car the car and key should sync (if not that drive cycle then the next one).

In fact, my current SA told me it is a good practice to alternate key fobs periodically so that both key fobs stay current with the car's info.

Yeah. The dealer is giving me a runaround. I just got off the phone with the SA (he's been doing this for 20 years and wanted to make sure I knew it) and said it would void regularly scheduled maintenance if I reset the oil reminder. He explained I get one free oil change per year or 10K miles whichever comes first. I explained that not everyone is going to be able to drive in to the dealership (especially since I live over 100 miles from the dealership) exactly 1 year or 10K when the vehicle is due.

I gave him another scenario where I would be traveling in a state that didn't have a BMW dealer and had to exceed the 10K miles or 1 year interval by several hundred miles. I asked him what the difference was? They would be resetting the oil change reminder over the 10K service interval which would be doing the exact same thing i.e., messing up the service interval parameters. That's when he told me he would have his manager explain it to me.

Sounds like Mr. "I've been doing this for 20 years" couldn't come up with a valid explanation for real life scenarios.

I think I'm done with this dealer after this service.

Then he told me he would have me sit down with his manager and have him explain it to me again when I picked up the vehicle.

[Resjudicata]

if you live 100 miles from the dealership, how far is the next closest one?

and is there a closer garage? even if you lose the 3 "free" oil changes, you might save more using a local shop and building a relationship.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by mitch57

Yeah. The dealer is giving me a runaround. I just got off the phone with the SA (he's been doing this for 20 years and wanted to make sure I knew it) and said it would void regularly scheduled maintenance if I reset the oil reminder. He explained I get one free oil change per year or 10K miles whichever comes first. I explained that not everyone is going to be able to drive in to the dealership (especially since I live over 100 miles from the dealership) exactly 1 year or 10K when the vehicle is due.

I gave him another scenario where I would be traveling in a state that didn't have a BMW dealer and had to exceed the 10K miles or 1 year interval by several hundred miles. I asked him what the difference was? They would be resetting the oil change reminder over the 10K service interval which would be doing the exact same thing i.e., messing up the service interval parameters. That's when he told me he would have his manager explain it to me.

Sounds like Mr. "I've been doing this for 20 years" couldn't come up with a valid explanation for real life scenarios.

I think I'm done with this dealer after this service.

Then he told me he would have me sit down with his manager and have him explain it to me again when I picked up the vehicle.

Well, what he should have said regarding the timing of the CBS maintenance is that it does not need to be "gnats a$$" on time to meet the intent of the maintenance schedule that BMW designed. In fact, what my SAs have told me is that if you are +/- 500 miles or so within the CBS mileage or +/- 1 month of the time, you are fine (with the 1200 mile break in service for the M cars being an exception with tighter mileage tolerances).

Now his point about resetting the oil service at 7500 mile intervals, vice 10k mile intervals, messing up your included BMW maintenance is partially true (but voiding may be a bit extreme). As I mentioned above, CBS keeps track of several maintenance items, many of which are interdependent on each other based on mileage, time, oil service intervals or a combination of them all. For example, spark plugs for the B58 in the X7 are due at the 6th oil change or 60k miles. If you change your oil AND reset your oil service light every 7500 miles, the timing will be off for when your spark plugs should be replaced IAW the BMW schedule. And there are several other maintenance items that mix into that CBS maintenance timing puzzle.

All that to say is that it makes things easier and more standardized for BMW to stick to the schedule, including resetting the CBS IAW the way BMW designed it. That way, the car gets the maintenance when the BMW engineers designed it (at least the minimum maintenance requirements). It also makes it easy for the SA's to determine when a service is due (or not due) by quickly looking at the mileage of your car and the time since the last service in question. Not that I am siding with the dealer, but I do understand what the dealer was trying to explain to you - which he apparently did very poorly.

Not sure what the best course of action is for you if you want to do 7500 mile oil changes AND reset the oil change interval in iDrive. While I think that a 7500 mile oil change interval is better for the engine (I will probably do every 5k miles) it will make keeping your included maintenance for 3yrs/36k miles more challenging and easy for BMW to deny.

[iconoclast]

yeah, i assumed as much but did not know it was an option via coding but i guess that is why i see "extended" and other features in the menus.

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Well, what he should have said regarding the timing of the CBS maintenance is that it does not need to be "gnats a$$" on time to meet the intent of the maintenance schedule that BMW designed. In fact, what my SAs have told me is that if you are +/- 500 miles or so within the CBS mileage or +/- 1 month of the time, you are fine (with the 1200 mile break in service for the M cars being an exception with tighter mileage tolerances).

Now his point about resetting the oil service at 7500 mile intervals, vice 10k mile intervals, messing up your included BMW maintenance is partially true (but voiding may be a bit extreme). As I mentioned above, CBS keeps track of several maintenance items, many of which are interdependent on each other based on mileage, time, oil service intervals or a combination of them all. For example, spark plugs for the B58 in the X7 are due at the 6th oil change or 60k miles. If you change your oil AND reset your oil service light every 7500 miles, the timing will be off for when your spark plugs should be replaced IAW the BMW schedule. And there are several other maintenance items that mix into that CBS maintenance timing puzzle.

All that to say is that it makes things easier and more standardized for BMW to stick to the schedule, including resetting the CBS IAW the way BMW designed it. That way, the car gets the maintenance when the BMW engineers designed it (at least the minimum maintenance requirements). It also makes it easy for the SA's to determine when a service is due (or not due) by quickly looking at the mileage of your car and the time since the last service in question. Not that I am siding with the dealer, but I do understand what the dealer was trying to explain to you - which he apparently did very poorly.

Not sure what the best course of action is for you if you want to do 7500 mile oil changes AND reset the oil change interval in iDrive. While I think that a 7500 mile oil change interval is better for the engine (I will probably do every 5k miles) it will make keeping your included maintenance for 3yrs/36k miles more challenging and easy for BMW to deny.

Based on what you are saying BMW's maintenance system is a mess. Why would you have one reminder system that covers multiple maintenance requirements? That's just ridiculous! The oil change reminder should be independent of other systems within the vehicle.

Additionally, if it's based on driving conditions, mileage, and other factors then why would anyone design a notification system that doesn't address the individual maintenance requirements separately?

If spark plugs require changing at 60K what does that maintenance have to do with changing the oil at 10K, 20k, 30k, etc.? Using one system to cover all maintenance based on time and mileage is stupid.

Does the CBS system track when it needs new brakes? New spark plugs? New transmission fluid and brake fluid? If so, and they're all tracked using the same CBS system then how can it track those other items when they reset the system when they change the oil at 10K? If you reset it at 10k does it not restart the counter so you get another reminder message in another 10K miles? Thus, resetting all the other maintenance reminders as well.

I don't see how changing the oil and the spark plugs are interdependent of each other nor do I see how brakes and other fluids can be interdependent on oil change intervals.

My other vehicles base maintenance on driving conditions, mileage and time. some of my other vehicles require spark plugs be changed at 120K miles regardless of when or how many times I changed the oil on those vehicles. In some cases there will be a "Severe/Unusual" driving conditions maintenance plan such as driving on dusty roads or excessive stop and go or idling. In these cases the maintenance requirements are done more frequently.

Having all maintenance interval/reminders tied to one reminder reset function is just ludicrous. Oil, brake, transmission, plugs, etc. should have independent reminders and reminder resets.

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

if you live 100 miles from the dealership, how far is the next closest one?

and is there a closer garage? even if you lose the 3 "free" oil changes, you might save more using a local shop and building a relationship.

None that I would trust while the car is still under factory warranty.

[jcarlilesiu]

Originally Posted by swissguy

Trying to upload a picture...

Why is your car blue on the display?

Does that match your actual paint scheme?

My car on 3D view, surround camera, and all the settings screens shows a generic silver with the wrong rims. I have arctic grey and it doesn't look like my car.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by mitch57

Based on what you are saying BMW's maintenance system is a mess. Why would you have one reminder system that covers multiple maintenance requirements? That's just ridiculous! The oil change reminder should be independent of other systems within the vehicle.

Additionally, if it's based on driving conditions, mileage, and other factors then why would anyone design a notification system that doesn't address the individual maintenance requirements separately?

If spark plugs require changing at 60K what does that maintenance have to do with changing the oil at 10K, 20k, 30k, etc.? Using one system to cover all maintenance based on time and mileage is stupid.

Does the CBS system track when it needs new brakes? New spark plugs? New transmission fluid and brake fluid? If so, and they're all tracked using the same CBS system then how can it track those other items when they reset the system when they change the oil at 10K? If you reset it at 10k does it not restart the counter so you get another reminder message in another 10K miles? Thus, resetting all the other maintenance reminders as well.

I don't see how changing the oil and the spark plugs are interdependent of each other nor do I see how brakes and other fluids can be interdependent on oil change intervals.

My other vehicles base maintenance on driving conditions, mileage and time. some of my other vehicles require spark plugs be changed at 120K miles regardless of when or how many times I changed the oil on those vehicles. In some cases there will be a "Severe/Unusual" driving conditions maintenance plan such as driving on dusty roads or excessive stop and go or idling. In these cases the maintenance requirements are done more frequently.

Having all maintenance interval/reminders tied to one reminder reset function is just ludicrous. Oil, brake, transmission, plugs, etc. should have independent reminders and reminder resets.

I think you are over thinking this. I am just trying to explain how the system works as I have owned multiple BMWs and have seen the CBS system "mature" over the years. The BMW CBS system is very similar to what other car manufactures use in modern cars now. And yes it takes into account several variables, parameters, and different maintenance items to do what it is designed to do - which is to "try" to accurately predict when maintenance should be done IAW the design parameters set by the engineers that designed the car. It also takes into account driving conditions as well which is why if you drive the car "hard" the CBS will adjust when your next oil service is due (and other maintenance items), as one example. The spark plug example I provided is just one example that I remember seeing in the maintenance booklet, there are several others in there too. And yes, the CBS does track all of the maintenance items you listed and calculates when certain items are due based on the schedule that BMW programs into the CBS (like oil changes every 10k miles OR 12 months) and taking into account the driving conditions in which the car is used. CBS tracks more than what is displayed in the "Vehicle Status" section of iDrive - the maintenance booklet will show you that.

How exactly the CBS calculates driving conditions or how "hard" you drive the car is an interesting algorithm of which I don't know how it works. But I know it is not perfect based on my experience. In some cases, I have not been impressed with the accuracy of it. For example, I have 48k miles on my M3, and CBS says that I have over 40k miles left on both my front and rear brakes. Except when the car was new, it said I had 50k miles left on the brakes. How the CBS system came to that determination is PFM as far as I know. But visual inspection of my brake pads looks like I might have another 10k miles at best left on them.

My recommendation for you is to look at the maintenance schedule booklet that came with the X7. That schedule is the baseline schedule for the CBS system. It should give you a better idea of how all of the different maintenance items are linked together the way BMW has chosen to link them. Whether or not you agree with BMW's maintenance schedule methodology - well that is for you to decide . But having been a BMW car enthusiast for some time (got my first M3 back in '95) and having been on BMW enthusiast forums since the early 2000's, many enthusiasts agree that the current BMW maintenance schedule methodology is based more on improving the BMW bottom line, instead of maintaining cars for a long time - even taking into account the improvements made with car technology.

Have a read here: Mike Miller Old School Maintenance Schedule

It provides a history lesson of how BMW maintenance has morphed over the years. And while the article is not new, the basic car maintenance methodology is sound IMO, even when applying it to modern cars today. I have actually been using this basic schedule on my M3 since new and will apply most of it to my X7 where it makes sense as well......

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by jmciver

I think you are over thinking this. I am just trying to explain how the system works as I have owned multiple BMWs and have seen the CBS system "mature" over the years. The BMW CBS system is very similar to what other car manufactures use in modern cars now. And yes it takes into account several variables, parameters, and different maintenance items to do what it is designed to do - which is to "try" to accurately predict when maintenance should be done IAW the design parameters set by the engineers that designed the car. It also takes into account driving conditions as well which is why if you drive the car "hard" the CBS will adjust when your next oil service is due (and other maintenance items), as one example. The spark plug example I provided is just one example that I remember seeing in the maintenance booklet, there are several others in there too. And yes, the CBS does track all of the maintenance items you listed and calculates when certain items are due based on the schedule that BMW programs into the CBS (like oil changes every 10k miles OR 12 months) and taking into account the driving conditions in which the car is used. CBS tracks more than what is displayed in the "Vehicle Status" section of iDrive - the maintenance booklet will show you that.

How exactly the CBS calculates driving conditions or how "hard" you drive the car is an interesting algorithm of which I don't know how it works. But I know it is not perfect based on my experience. In some cases, I have not been impressed with the accuracy of it. For example, I have 48k miles on my M3, and CBS says that I have over 40k miles left on both my front and rear brakes. Except when the car was new, it said I had 50k miles left on the brakes. How the CBS system came to that determination is PFM as far as I know. But visual inspection of my brake pads looks like I might have another 10k miles at best left on them.

My recommendation for you is to look at the maintenance schedule booklet that came with the X7. That schedule is the baseline schedule for the CBS system. It should give you a better idea of how all of the different maintenance items are linked together the way BMW has chosen to link them. Whether or not you agree with BMW's maintenance schedule methodology - well that is for you to decide . But having been a BMW car enthusiast for some time (got my first M3 back in '95) and having been on BMW enthusiast forums since the early 2000's, many enthusiasts agree that the current BMW maintenance schedule methodology is based more on improving the BMW bottom line, instead of maintaining cars for a long time - even taking into account the improvements made with car technology.

Have a read here: Mike Miller Old School Maintenance Schedule

It provides a history lesson of how BMW maintenance has morphed over the years. And while the article is not new, the basic car maintenance methodology is sound IMO, even when applying it to modern cars today. I have actually been using this basic schedule on my M3 since new and will apply most of it to my X7 where it makes sense as well......

I don't think I'm over thinking this. It's just that I don't want me or my wife (who understands nothing other than there's a warning light on the dash) to have to deal with the nagging oil change reminder just because I changed the oil "Sooner" then what BMW recommends and did not reset the reminder counter. if you don't reset the reminder counter, as BMW is telling me not to do and they won't do either, the CBS system will continue to remind me again and again until it gets reset.

It's quite simple really. If I change the oil at 7500 miles and reset the oil change reminder it will notify me again at approximately 9500 miles later, 11 months later, or possibly sooner if I drive the car harder. If BMW's system can't perform a simple function like that then I would just as soon use a pen and paper schedule with a calendar instead of having any idiot lights or reminders.

I'm just struggling with BMW's stupid maintenance reminder designs that in reality only exist to foster more money for the auto maker. Just like Mike said. At one time service intervals were required much more often and the cost those services came out of the owner's pockets not BMW. Now that BMW is providing free maintenance for the first 3 years/36000 miles those service interval times/mileage have tippled because now BMW is footing the bill. Imagine that?

Who ever heard of doing damage to an engine by changing the oil sooner than the manufactures "Recommended" interval? And, by golly, don't even think about resetting that oil change reminder when you actually change the oil sooner than recommended as it will reek havoc on the rest of BMW's maintenance reminder system.

By the way, thanks for the link to Mike Miller's Old School Maintenance Schedule. He addresses many of the concerns I have with BMW's scheduled maintenance program and why he doesn't like it either.

All I really want is to be able to use the reminder system in a common sense fashion. I'll give you an example of how Toyota has done it since about the 2008 model year which makes perfect sense.

At every 4500 mile interval the system starts warning you with a "Maintenance required soon" message every time you start the car. Then it goes away after a few seconds and doesn't reappear until the next time you restart the car.

The next warning is "Maintenance Required" and the message remains until you reset it with a button press. However, it will return several minutes later until you push the button again. This persistent message will continue until you perform a hard reset of the maintenance reminder which resets it back to another 5000 mile interval. This is simple and easy and has no affect on any other reminders or idiot lights.

Toyota recommends full synthetic oil changes every 10K miles but the reminder system gives you the option to change it every 5K miles if you so desire to change the oil at those intervals. Resetting the oil reminder every 1 or 2K miles also has no affect on any other reminders within the system either. So, if you wanted to you could change your oil every 3K miles and hard reset the reminder at that time but wouldn't get another reminder for 1500 miles.

Unfortunately, it sounds like this is not an option on BMW vehicles due to the inherit interdependent functionality of multiple components that are monitored by the system.

[jmciver]

Sounds like a whole lot of violent agreement here .... I may understand how the CBS system basically works, but I don't necessarily agree with it, specifically the intervals for different maintenance items - especially for something as vital as oil (regardless of how advanced automotive technology is). And don't get me started on BMW's concept of "lifetime fluids". I changed out the automatic transmission fluid, front and rear differential fluid and transfer case fluid on my wife's 2013 X3 at 50k miles (all considered "lifetime" fluids by BMW), and some of them looked like premium Vermont maple syrup compared to the fresh oil I put back in....

I have been using the Mike Miller old school methodology for a while now and I think my M3 has really reaped the benefit as it is my first BMW where I started the schedule from new. And I plan to do the same with my X7. I adjust my "extra" oil changes to match with the CBS just to make the "oil math" easier and minimize potential conflict with BMW regarding the included maintenance - like what you seem to be experiencing. It means I may do more oil changes than most, but oil changes are cheap, especially since I like to DIY.

I will let you know how my DIY 1200 mile break-in oil service goes .

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Sounds like a whole lot of violent agreement here .... I may understand how the CBS system basically works, but I don't necessarily agree with it, specifically the intervals for different maintenance items - especially for something as vital as oil (regardless of how advanced automotive technology is). And don't get me started on BMW's concept of "lifetime fluids". I changed out the automatic transmission fluid, front and rear differential fluid and transfer case fluid on my wife's 2013 X3 at 50k miles (all considered "lifetime" fluids by BMW), and some of them looked like premium Vermont maple syrup compared to the fresh oil I put back in....

I have been using the Mike Miller old school methodology for a while now and I think my M3 has really reaped the benefit as it is my first BMW where I started the schedule from new. And I plan to do the same with my X7. I adjust my "extra" oil changes to match with the CBS just to make the "oil math" easier and minimize potential conflict with BMW regarding the included maintenance - like what you seem to be experiencing. It means I may do more oil changes than most, but oil changes are cheap, especially since I like to DIY.

I will let you know how my DIY 1200 mile break-in oil service goes .

Yep!

Funny thing is Service Advisor called me this morning to tell me my X7 was ready. Now he's changed his tune and said he would go ahead and reset the service reminder and it wouldn't affect my warranty service. Hmmm... Imagine that. Maybe the Service Manager had a little talk with him about it when he told the Service Manager he scheduled a sit down meeting with him. Who knows but I suspect he knew that meeting wasn't going to go well. I will be looking elsewhere for service going forward.

Like you, I used to do all of the routine maintenance on all of my vehicles. However, I'm much, much older now and time is money. My time is more valuable then the money at my age so I choose to spend my time doing things I enjoy more than maintaining my vehicles.

I'm also a retired Navy Engineer and frankly got tired of working in the pit so to speak. Although in the Navy we called it the "Hole" and were affectionately referred to as "Hole Snipes". Back then ships engines were 1200 PSI super heated Steam Turbines. Those plants are long gone with the exception of Nuke Aircraft Carriers.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by mitch57

I'm also a retired Navy Engineer and frankly got tired of working in the pit so to speak. Although in the Navy we called it the "Hole" and were affectionately referred to as "Hole Snipes". Back then ships engines were 1200 PSI super heated Steam Turbines. Those plants are long gone with the exception of Nuke Aircraft Carriers.

Much respect for your service. Actually, I am more familiar with that stuff than you might think. I am active duty Navy (24 years and still going), nuclear trained, and a Submarine driver by trade. Which would explain some of the similar ways of thinking.....

[mitch57]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Much respect for your service. Actually, I am more familiar with that stuff than you might think. I am active duty Navy (24 years and still going), nuclear trained, and a Submarine driver by trade. Which would explain some of the similar ways of thinking.....

Thanks for your service as well! I'm a retired MMC but I retired a long time ago in 1997. I had a hunch you might be in the military.

My last seven years were in Hawaii as a 3M Inspector working for COMNAVSURFGRU MIDPAC. Then they disbanded 3M Inspections and went to CART and Assist Visits.

It took me and my Team years to convince CO's and the crew that we weren't there to end their careers anymore but there to help them do a better job training and maintaining their equipment. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about regarding 3M. Try telling a civilian what PMS is? LOL... Just a little military humor for those that know...

[Frinckster]

Originally Posted by Waise

My 2019 X7 iDrive Software version is 07/2019.40. Does anyone know what is updated or changed in 11/2019.55?

I have a 2019 x7 my version is still 07/2019. I tried to refresh the remote update but nothing new is coming up.

[Hoosbest]

Originally Posted by Frinckster

I have a 2019 x7 my version is still 07/2019. I tried to refresh the remote update but nothing new is coming up.

It won't update via app. They haven't turned it on in the US for the X7 and/or BMW isn't updating people's software unless there is an issue. My dealer refused to update my July 2019 version.

[Frinckster]

I guess I will be stuck on 07/2019 version for now. I wanted to add spotify in the apps but when I googled it its not part of the 07/2019 update.

[UKMS]

Originally Posted by Frinckster

I guess I will be stuck on 07/2019 version for now. I wanted to add spotify in the apps but when I googled it its not part of the 07/2019 update.

Not having a feature (spotify) that is available is a good enough reason to insist the dealer does the update IMHO