[Saejin]

Originally Posted by Next Level Auto Brokers

8-9% off dealer discount is the going rate at aggressive dealers. Most will be 0-5% off which isn't a deal at all.

NB:

base MF of .00082
finance at 1.9% up to 60 months

I think in some cases 5% may be the only deal some of us can get. It’s very region dependent and deal dependent especially when you factor in a trade. I got a quote on the east coast for 10% off before incentives. Would have loved to take that deal, but they couldn’t do much with my trade since I live in Colorado. I guess I could have ordered the X7, then driven out there when it arrived to finalize the deal, but then I would be in the corner with my trade possibly getting much less than I could have gotten locally. I could have sold my trade to Carmax or Vroom but then I would lose out on the tax break my state gives for tradeins.

Dealers here in CO won’t even attempt to match any quotes out of state especially at 10% off MSRP and if you have a trade forget about it. They know they have the advantage.

As a broker how do you deal with buyers that have a trade in. What advice do you give them?

[Next Level Auto Brokers]

Originally Posted by Saejin

I think in some cases 5% may be the only deal some of us can get. It’s very region dependent and deal dependent especially when you factor in a trade. I got a quote on the east coast for 10% off before incentives. Would have loved to take that deal, but they couldn’t do much with my trade since I live in Colorado. I guess I could have ordered the X7, then driven out there when it arrived to finalize the deal, but then I would be in the corner with my trade possibly getting much less than I could have gotten locally. I could have sold my trade to Carmax or Vroom but then I would lose out on the tax break my state gives for tradeins.

Dealers here in CO won’t even attempt to match any quotes out of state especially at 10% off MSRP and if you have a trade forget about it. They know they have the advantage.

As a broker how do you deal with buyers that have a trade in. What advice do you give them?

It really depends on your state to see if there any tax benefits to trading it into the same dealer you getting a new car from, and what car you are trading in.

If it's a Porsche 911 or Ford Raptor et al., it may make more sense to sell privately.

For the most part, I tell people to do Carvana and Vroom for quotes on buyouts. They are pretty fair, and you don't have to buy a car from them.

[Savoy2001]

7% off msrp is basically invoice price give or take a few bucks. That’s a fair deal on a m50i imo. I mean I’m sure you could possibly find a dealer and wait till end of the month and nickel and dime them to death but I mean come on. You’re buying a high end car you should expect and her high end service so why not let everyone make some money. Why be that guy. The guy who’s deale they take because they need the unit but every time they see you no one really wants to deal with. Know what I mean? They treat you fairly. You get good service and a good fair deal. That’s enough. Why does every deal in order to be a good deal have to suck every last bit of oxygen out of the deal or it’s simply no good. Get it? Just my two cents.

[malba2366]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

7% off msrp is basically invoice price give or take a few bucks. That’s a fair deal on a m50i imo. I mean I’m sure you could possibly find a dealer and wait till end of the month and nickel and dime them to death but I mean come on. You’re buying a high end car you should expect and her high end service so why not let everyone make some money. Why be that guy. The guy who’s deale they take because they need the unit but every time they see you no one really wants to deal with. Know what I mean? They treat you fairly. You get good service and a good fair deal. That’s enough. Why does every deal in order to be a good deal have to suck every last bit of oxygen out of the deal or it’s simply no good. Get it? Just my two cents.

I hear ya, but the days of buying all your cars from one dealership and getting great treatment when buying and in the service department are over. Most dealerships function as two separate business units and the service managers don't care where you bought the car as they need to make their numbers. Also the sales staff turn over constantly, and they only seem to care about what you are buying today, not what you bought last time or will buy next time. In that kind of a system may as well get the best deal possible.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by Next Level Auto Brokers

For the most part, I tell people to do Carvana and Vroom for quotes on buyouts. They are pretty fair, and you don't have to buy a car from them.

Colorado deducts the trade in value from the overall purchase price then calculates taxes on the remainder. Dealer knows this and sometimes will try and leverage that in deal...something like saying you're getting an additional $3K with the tax savings, so our offer really isn't that low. Well you can accept that or continue to negotiate.

I ran the numbers...if I took the out of state deal, sold my car locally to Carmax, Vroom, or Carvana (all were pretty much the same), and then arranged shipping to deliver the X7 or flew out to the east coast then I'd be pretty much even with either deal.

I took the local deal.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by malba2366

I hear ya, but the days of buying all your cars from one dealership and getting great treatment when buying and in the service department are over. Most dealerships function as two separate business units and the service managers don't care where you bought the car as they need to make their numbers. Also the sales staff turn over constantly, and they only seem to care about what you are buying today, not what you bought last time or will buy next time. In that kind of a system may as well get the best deal possible.

May be the case for some dealerships, but ultimately there's one owner making money from all three departments; sales, service, and parts.

In that case sales is motivated to ensure customers return and also bring in referrals. Unless you just want to do your own maintenance the natural decision is to have service done at the dealer you bought the car from. Then service is motivated to keep you happy so you continue to buy from them. I think one of the best sales opportunities is when you come in for service. It's a chance for the CA to chat with you about how things are going and show you the newest models...maybe even talk you into trading up.

If you're into getting limited edition models or want to be the first to have something special, those typically are offered to loyal customers first.

But then again, some dealers don't care and are just pushing volume to make numbers.

Either way, I'm with Savoy2001 when it comes to not wanting to nickel and dime every time I negotiate a car deal. I could have easily driven up to another dealer with my current offer in hand and they would have gladly matched it and beaten in by a few hundred bucks. But the original dealer let me drive all the cars I wanted multiple times, answered all my questions, and in the end made a fair deal, so I went with them. They put in the leg work, they deserve the deal.

[Refujeet]

I'm jealous of the discounts you guys can get!

Here in Canada, I haven't been able to get anything close to double digits...and the residual values are terrible.

Regardless, I just ordered a M50i for the wife, and I'm excited!

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by Refujeet

I'm jealous of the discounts you guys can get!

Here in Canada, I haven't been able to get anything close to double digits...and the residual values are terrible.

Regardless, I just ordered a M50i for the wife, and I'm excited!

Don’t feel too bad. I suspect most of these double digit deals aren’t exactly what they seem. Although that is area dependent. I can tell you here on Long Island dealers don’t get allot of m50i allocations and they sell so typically they are looking to get list or close to list. If you get close to invoice price of so you did well here.

Also remember something. Most people lease these cars. For every thousand bucks on 36 months lease you moving the payment up or down approx 28 dollars give or take a dollar. So yes it’s money but bear in mind all the work and bs you’ve got to do to save an extra thousand abs in the end after all that running around you saved yourself 28 dollars? Is that going to change your life when you’re dealing with 1200-1700 payments depending on how much you putout of pocket etc? I have to laugh at people who do this honestly. You’ll go from dealer to dealer trying to save even just 500 dollars. Yet in the end is usually stressful and aggravating and look at what you’ve saved. Great job. That’s not me. I’m spending a ton of money I don’t need that bs in my life. Let everyone make a few dollars. Clearly everyone in this thread earns or you wouldn’t be buying 100k+ cars. So why can’t anyone else make money? Only you’re allowed to earn? Stop.

[nynd]

I think the feeling is everytime you walk or deal with a dealership, you know they are going to squeeze as much as they can out of you. So, with that thought in mind, we all assume there is money on the table to play with, which there is. All comes down to you feeling you got a decent deal and weren't taken for a ride.

In addition, there is always more at play. Sometimes dealers are will to discount to meet certain number of sold units for the month or quarter. They may lose a little but make up for it on any corporate incentives (if any for sales goals).

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by nynd

I think the feeling is everytime you walk or deal with a dealership, you know they are going to squeeze as much as they can out of you. So, with that thought in mind, we all assume there is money on the table to play with, which there is. All comes down to you feeling you got a decent deal and weren't taken for a ride.

In addition, there is always more at play. Sometimes dealers are will to discount to meet certain number of sold units for the month or quarter. They may lose a little but make up for it on any corporate incentives (if any for sales goals).

Squeeze as much out of you as possible? You mean like every other business on planet earth? lol I mean seriously whats so unique about this? Of course they are going to try to make as much as possible that’s called capitalism. That’s why you negotiate down to s as fair price for both sides and move on. You see let’s be honest. You guys (me included) aren’t buying basic transportation. You aren’t buying a Hyundai for 249 s as month here so let’s be real. I totally interact why those customers need to save every dollar. That’sa different demographic. I’m sure 30 bucks a month can mean allot to some of those people. I’m not being elitist here just being real. When you’re talking about cars like we’re talking about here 30 bucks a month is a game to most people. Is a way to beat the dealer and tell your friend how your stole the car lol look at me. I told that dealer how it was gonna be hub bub bub etc. you know those kinds of people. So my point is just get a decent deal enjoy the experience and know we are lucky as hell to n be in a position in life that 99% of the population never will be. So let the dealer make some money. Get a fair deal for yourself and watch when your walk in with a problem how they treat you. I know I know but I should be treated that way no matter what deal I have them. True. But sadly not reality. Just my two cents.


Edit. Sorry but the typos. I hate typing on this forum from my phone.

[malba2366]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Squeeze as much out of you as possible? You mean like every other business on planet earth? lol I mean seriously whats so unique about this? Of course they are going to try to make as much as possible that’s called capitalism. That’s why you negotiate down to s as fair price for both sides and move on. You see let’s be honest. You guys (me included) aren’t buying basic transportation. You aren’t buying a Hyundai for 249 s as month here so let’s be real. I totally interact why those customers need to save every dollar. That’sa different demographic. I’m sure 30 bucks a month can mean allot to some of those people. I’m not being elitist here just being real. When you’re talking about cars like we’re talking about here 30 bucks a month is a game to most people. Is a way to beat the dealer and tell your friend how your stole the car lol look at me. I told that dealer how it was gonna be hub bub bub etc. you know those kinds of people. So my point is just get a decent deal enjoy the experience and know we are lucky as hell to n be in a position in life that 99% of the population never will be. So let the dealer make some money. Get a fair deal for yourself and watch when your walk in with a problem how they treat you. I know I know but I should be treated that way no matter what deal I have them. True. But sadly not reality. Just my two cents.


Edit. Sorry but the typos. I hate typing on this forum from my phone.

They are making money, otherwise they would not do the deal. Even when you pay full price they nickel and dime you with documentation fees and dealer fees and try to sell overpriced add ons. I actually would prefer if there was a fixed price with no haggling and no games. I will honestly say that the buying experience of my wife's Tesla was hands down the easiest and most satisfying auto purchase process I have dealt with.

The fixed price model, takes out all of the thinking about the best deal possible and allows one to enjoy the product for what it Is.

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by malba2366

The fixed price model, takes out all of the thinking about the best deal possible and allows one to enjoy the product for what it Is.

Saturn tried this and are not around anymore...I'm sure it wasn't just due to the pricing model. I think carmax still does fixed pricing, but never bought a car from them so not sure if any negotiating can be done.

I agree that a fixed price model would be nice. Then dealers could focus on discounts such as the APR, Loyalty, military, finance rates, etc to drive sales. I still hear the radio ads of dealers offering $5000 for your trade no matter the condition...you can push it in or bring it in with a horse. It's ridiculous...those who know understand the $5000 is a rebate that the dealer has to give you anyway regardless of trade.

[GOLFFRR]

just remember to look at the whole deal not just the amount off MSRP. There is mark up on MF for lease, APR rate on finance. There are various fees marked up or not considered etc.. best bet is to look at the whole deal. I see so many people sending us getting X off only when we look at the whole deal they are giving a chunk of that back to the dealer without even knowing.

[Savoy2001]

That’s why you need to know the base money factor. Odds are though they need to remain slightly competitive though in case you shop so they really can’t go hog wild marking up the rate and a high selling price. The only time they might up the rate too it’s max markup is if they know you’re a nazi with the selling price and you don’t know the rate.

[340iGUY]

Originally Posted by malba2366

The dealer's true cost (before sales target bonuses) is reported to be 12% off MSRP. There is not more profit on options (unless they are added on at the dealership). After factoring in the BMW incentives, savings by percentage ends up being higher on lower priced cars.

I was offered 10% off MSRP before incentives without difficulty on a 40i, but they told me only 5% off on a M50i.

It depends on availability of the model too.
What I said was true in general not for a specific car.
Each model has its own factors but the more options you stack the more you have to bargain discounts from.
Option discounts are more than 15%.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by 340iGUY

It depends on availability of the model too.
What I said was true in general not for a specific car.
Each model has its own factors but the more options you stack the more you have to bargain discounts from.
Option discounts are more than 15%.

If you’re talking about the markup from msrp to invoice? Or accounting for hold back. Then the higher the price of the car usually the higher the spread between msrp and invoice. Plus there’s going to be more holdback the higher the price of the car as well. The car being loaded with options does not make it more profitable for the dealer. The more options you add to a build the more profitable it is for the manufacturer. The only thing the dealer benefits from is a high priced car will have more spread and more holdback so hopefully they can hold onto more gross profit in that particular deal. Ask me how I know this? I’m in the car business for 30 years.

Usually higher priced cars will been a better profit maker pound per pound so to speak than cheap cars. That’s not to say is the be all end all either though. You aren’t selling as many m50i’s at over 100k. You will move much more volume in x3/5’s. So you hopefully make up on volume. The bottom line is an m50i is a bit scarce and they don’t build a ton of them so prices will remain higher. A run of the mill x3 there’s tons you can probably get it near triple net. That invoice Minus holdback. Or close to it.

[Saejin]

^^^what he said^^^

Got the deal of a lifetime on my X3 M40i.

Got a deal I can live with on my X7 M50i.

[Tinbad]

I'd take any "deals" people post online with a large grain of salt because often important details are often (unknowingly) omitted. How many times do you hear people got "xx%" off only to find out later they got hosed on their trade in. Or purchased $x,xxx in extended warranties/service plans. Or their APR/MF has max markup, etc. So unless the full picture is known there's no point comparing apples to oranges. More often that not, it's the same folks bragging how they suckered the dealer are the ones paying a premium somewhere else. Dealers are in the business of making money and if you think you've "won" it means you probably didn't. Sure, there's always that guy who walks into a dealer 5 minutes before close on Dec 31st and them being 1 sale away of their $50k bonus... but everyone else pays for the fancy building, the cappuccino machine and the phat commissions everyone's making

[Saejin]

Originally Posted by Tinbad

I'd take any "deals" people post online with a large grain of salt because often important details are often (unknowingly) omitted. How many times do you hear people got "xx%" off only to find out later they got hosed on their trade in. Or purchased $x,xxx in extended warranties/service plans. Or their APR/MF has max markup, etc. So unless the full picture is known there's no point comparing apples to oranges. More often that not, it's the same folks bragging how they suckered the dealer are the ones paying a premium somewhere else. Dealers are in the business of making money and if you think you've "won" it means you probably didn't. Sure, there's always that guy who walks into a dealer 5 minutes before close on Dec 31st and them being 1 sale away of their $50k bonus... but everyone else pays for the fancy building, the cappuccino machine and the phat commissions everyone's making

I will say I did get an offer on paper from an out of state dealer for ~10% off before $4,000 in rebates on a fully loaded M50i, no doc or freight fees. I couldn't take the deal because it was out of state, like too far away to drive in one day, and I had a trade in. Option was to sell the trade-in privately or to Carmax, but then I'd lose any tax discounts my state gives. Then I'd also have to arrange delivery of the X7. All of that pretty much erased the savings I was getting by going with that deal. Also, my local dealer would not even entertain matching the out of state deal...they are just not a high volume dealer and knew I needed to trade my current car in.

So, in any deal the starting point should be around 10% off MSRP before rebates and then go from there. If you don't have a trade-in and are ordering and your dealer will not get close to 10% off, I would highly recommend using a broker or PM me and I can put you in touch with the POC for the offer I got.

[Tinbad]

Originally Posted by Saejin

I will say I did get an offer on paper from an out of state dealer for ~10% off before $4,000 in rebates on a fully loaded M50i, no doc or freight fees. I couldn't take the deal because it was out of state, like too far away to drive in one day, and I had a trade in. Option was to sell the trade-in privately or to Carmax, but then I'd lose any tax discounts my state gives. Then I'd also have to arrange delivery of the X7. All of that pretty much erased the savings I was getting by going with that deal. Also, my local dealer would not even entertain matching the out of state deal...they are just not a high volume dealer and knew I needed to trade my current car in.

So, in any deal the starting point should be around 10% off MSRP before rebates and then go from there. If you don't have a trade-in and are ordering and your dealer will not get close to 10% off, I would highly recommend using a broker or PM me and I can put you in touch with the POC for the offer I got.

All I'm saying the % off doesn't tell the whole story. By no means am I questioning the offer you got but 10% off before rebates is definitely a very good deal and likely above average of what most get off an M50i. These type of deals are usually reserved to more competitive markets like (So)Cal. But then we also get hosed on taxes here in our beautiful (and expensive) state.

[malba2366]

10% is definitely doable in competitive markets. Taxes wouldn’t really matter because with vehicles those are paid where the car is registered. One could easily work with a broker who could get that deal out of state and then do the factory pickup.

[Tinbad]

Originally Posted by malba2366

10% is definitely doable in competitive markets. Taxes wouldn’t really matter because with vehicles those are paid where the car is registered. One could easily work with a broker who could get that deal out of state and then do the factory pickup.

True that taxes don't matter, that was just me complaining lol.

Definitely +1 on broker if you don't feel like dealing with 10 dealerships directly. Will save you a lot of time!