Ess vs aa supercharger kits

[UNNATRAL]

If anything, AA already has a blown motor. if they were to use a bigger supercharger such as the V3 Vortech as apposed to their smaller HKS blower which is designed for a 350z motor, they would be able to pull out so much power. The mistake AA makes is that the blower they use is just too small for a 4.0L V8, and that is why they run a lot of boost. I havent read details about that blown motor issue, but Im sure it had something to do with running too much boost. if they use a bigger blower, they would be fine. After all, AA was one of the pioneer tuning company for BMW's

[nimbusjim]

Originally Posted by UNNATRAL

...AA already has a blown motor....I havent read details about that blown motor issue, but Im sure it had something to do with.....

So, for clarification purposes, you are stating that Active Autowerke damaged an engine. But since this statement appears to be based on neither direct knowledge nor "details" available for reading, I suggest that any speculation serves more harm than good.

All the chatter about the mystery "blown motor" and subsequent AA "cover-up" doesn't even rise to the level of rumor. Come on folks. Lets stick to the facts. If it's speculation, call it that. If it's not based on reasonably accurate or reliable sources, don't even bother.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by nimbusjim

So, for clarification purposes, you are stating that Active Autowerke damaged an engine. But since this statement appears to be based on neither direct knowledge nor "details" available for reading, I suggest that any speculation serves more harm than good.

All the chatter about the mystery "blown motor" and subsequent AA "cover-up" doesn't even rise to the level of rumor. Come on folks. Lets stick to the facts. If it's speculation, call it that. If it's not based on reasonably accurate or reliable sources, don't even bother.

Don't waste your time on this guy, he is an ESS fanboy that is justifying his purchase by putting down anything that he doesnt own or know anything about. This sh*t is really starting to get old. I dont doubt that ESS makes a really good kit, but so does AA. AA has been in the game a long time and put a lot of R&D into there products. Top shelf in my books.

[spdu4ea]

Where did you guys see AA blew a motor? Are you talking about that drift kiddie that money-shifted? That hardly counts...

[bunnn]

Originally Posted by spdu4ea

Where did you guys see AA blew a motor? Are you talking about that drift kiddie that money-shifted? That hardly counts...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435726
This was where I read about it the first time, there hasn't been any updates since.

[nimbusjim]

Well, I feel better throwing darts at Active now. Before, I thought it was just rumor. At least now I know it's just unfounded speculation based on hearsay from bad hyperlinks. Whew! What a relief.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

ESS is the way to go.

[Ferre86]

i do not think anything related to AA about that blown engine.. we had never detailed info about it.. , i had their kit on my e46-m3 stageII SC, and it was pure from the first day no issues at all have been their shops too many times , they do a valuable job in there.. you will not regret going with both kits for your car mate.. you might find more information about AA on m3forum.net

[HP Man]

Originally Posted by UNNATRAL

If anything, AA already has a blown motor. if they were to use a bigger supercharger such as the V3 Vortech as apposed to their smaller HKS blower which is designed for a 350z motor, they would be able to pull out so much power. The mistake AA makes is that the blower they use is just too small for a 4.0L V8, and that is why they run a lot of boost. I havent read details about that blown motor issue, but Im sure it had something to do with running too much boost. if they use a bigger blower, they would be fine. After all, AA was one of the pioneer tuning company for BMW's

Sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever. Whether a big blower or small blower is used, the amount of boost is whatever it is (i.e. a big blower making 6 psi has the same boost as a small blower making 6 psi). A small blower may have to work harder than a big blower to make the same amount of boost, however, that would only affect blower lifespan, not motor lifespan. In other words, 6 psi whether generated from a Vortech or HKS blower is still 6 psi.

[m33]

I like the active auto setup but haven't heard much nor seen any video of this kit in action , I don't doubt it's a good kit but it would be good to see some video of it action ..

[1cleanm6]

Ive spoken to a ferrari tech, who seemed really really smart and he said e9X m3's shouldnt be running superchargers, their compression is way too high. He kept talking and talking(about engine components Ive never heard before lol) and how much adding a sc damages these parts. He said long term 30k+ miles is really when youll start noticing these issues.

I dont know why, but I trust him, he seemed so smart. Scared me a bit.

[spdu4ea]

But does he stay at holiday inn?

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by spdu4ea

But does he stay at holiday inn?

No - but he just saved 15% on his car insurance...

[DublinM3]

Originally Posted by HP Man

Sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever. Whether a big blower or small blower is used, the amount of boost is whatever it is (i.e. a big blower making 6 psi has the same boost as a small blower making 6 psi). A small blower may have to work harder than a big blower to make the same amount of boost, however, that would only affect blower lifespan, not motor lifespan. In other words, 6 psi whether generated from a Vortech or HKS blower is still 6 psi.

You are correct boost is boost but spinning a small blower beyond what it was designed to run will generate a lot of added heat. If the blower shares oil with the motor this can lead to higher engine oil temps which could affect engine life, it could also lead to shorter blower and belt life. The specs for the HKS GTS8550 blower AA uses is rated for max 500 HP or close to that I believe. Im going to assume based on the blowers rating that it is being overspun to achieve the rated 620 HP.

SPECIFICATIONS
Supercharger Model: GTS8550
Power Output Range: 250ps ~ 500ps

It is never best to run a blower at its max capacity or beyond if you can avoid it.

[DublinM3]

Originally Posted by 1cleanm3

Ive spoken to a ferrari tech, who seemed really really smart and he said e9X m3's shouldnt be running superchargers, their compression is way too high. He kept talking and talking(about engine components Ive never heard before lol) and how much adding a sc damages these parts. He said long term 30k+ miles is really when youll start noticing these issues.

I dont know why, but I trust him, he seemed so smart. Scared me a bit.

I would tend to trust the opinion of tuners who have been adding forced induction to BMW motors for years and that have done the actual R&D over a random tech regardless of his knowledge of motors. I think most would agree that there is a limit on how much boost a high compression motor should run.

[Jon@Bimmersport Automotive]

Originally Posted by UNNATRAL

If anything, AA already has a blown motor. if they were to use a bigger supercharger such as the V3 Vortech as apposed to their smaller HKS blower which is designed for a 350z motor, they would be able to pull out so much power. The mistake AA makes is that the blower they use is just too small for a 4.0L V8, and that is why they run a lot of boost. I havent read details about that blown motor issue, but Im sure it had something to do with running too much boost. if they use a bigger blower, they would be fine. After all, AA was one of the pioneer tuning company for BMW's

The HKS blower on the 350z is not the same as the ones used on the M3. The 350z model is used on say E46 325ci. On a side note, Boost is not as important as the amount of CFM the S/C can put out.

The VT 625 kit requires a catless system, and 93 octane to make that power. I beleive it runs at ~7psi just like the AA (i cant reference besides roman's posts, as the website has no info about their kits atm). AA does NOT require the use of 93 octane, which shell 91 with no ethanol would be prefered IMO anyway.

Why do you think there is no meth req. for ESS, because you HAVE to run 93+. If don't know already, meth will cool IAT reducing the chance of detonation...therefore you dont always need high octane fuel to make the power. I don't like filling gas like sunoco 94, and petro 94 it's a waste of money to pay for ethanol given the M3's already not so great mileage.

Both kit's are great for the BMW Enthusiast, however just because one has been released on the market for longer and came out first....does not mean one company fell behind. Different strokes for different folks, one fact is that the majority of reviews here are biased...and no back to back road test was done on the kits available in their current form before purchase. If a road test was done, it was only in ONE companies car.

Jason, let me know when the Sonata is in...I have a catless exhaust, and we can do a live dyno tune on it for max power!

[GreasyGinzo]

Originally Posted by HP Man

Sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever. Whether a big blower or small blower is used, the amount of boost is whatever it is (i.e. a big blower making 6 psi has the same boost as a small blower making 6 psi). A small blower may have to work harder than a big blower to make the same amount of boost, however, that would only affect blower lifespan, not motor lifespan. In other words, 6 psi whether generated from a Vortech or HKS blower is still 6 psi.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. A bigger blower running 6psi is pushing a hell of a lot more air (volume) then a small blower running 6psi. More air needs more fuel period.

[ADV.1 Matt]

I can't speak to the ESS as I don't have any relations with that company but we've worked with AA for years and been nothing but impressed by the entire AA crew, products, and service.

[akh23456]

ill be getting an aa sc within the next month or two so hopefully ill be able to get some videos up if weather is nice.

[m33]

i don't believe that i have seen any dynos or video for that matter of the AA SC`r ,
Omar/AA vendors would you be so kind to share with us a independent dyno of what power these kits put down ?
also include the fuel used as well as boost , wanna see how they compare to the ESS kits .
i have 2 dyno charts of my personal car showing what my car made on 93 pump with out meth and at 6to 6.5 lbs of boost on two different independent dyno`s

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by nimbusjim

So, for clarification purposes, you are stating that Active Autowerke damaged an engine. But since this statement appears to be based on neither direct knowledge nor "details" available for reading, I suggest that any speculation serves more harm than good.

All the chatter about the mystery "blown motor" and subsequent AA "cover-up" doesn't even rise to the level of rumor. Come on folks. Lets stick to the facts. If it's speculation, call it that. If it's not based on reasonably accurate or reliable sources, don't even bother.

nobody knows for sure what happened or what caused it, but AA hasn't exactly been forthright with details. you can't blame people for making negative assumptions when the specifics are withheld - it's human nature to be skeptical in that situation. I agree that nobody should be pointing fingers without knowing what happened, but AA has been very cryptic in how they've handled the situation, so people are right to be leary of the situation. again, not saying anybody should be blaming AA here, but just saying it's understandable.

the same thing can be said for the lack of real information about AA's kit. it's stupid to have an AA vs. ESS comparison becase there is so little information available about AA's kit. ESS, on the other hand, is extremely candid in describing how their kit works and why they designed things the way they did. furthermore, numerous ESS owners have posted independent dyno results and reviewed their kits. AA claims to have sold a number of kits and it wasn't released just yesterday, so why is there so little information available? I haven't seen much from either AA or its customers other than some painted manifolds.

I'm not trying to say that the ESS kit is better because there is more information on it or because there are more kits out there - I'm just saying I have no reason to believe that the AA kit is as good or better because I haven't seen any information that would compel me to believe so. it could be better for all I know, but the bottom line is I would not feel comfortable buying an AA kit without having a better understanding of what exactly I'm buying. I would urge AA to provide more details on their kit (why they chose the HKS blower, why air-to-air, how reliable is the meth system, how effective is the intercooler at controlling IATs, etc.) so that potential customers could make an informed decision. until I see that information, forgive me for making the natural assumption that the data won't compare favorably.

[m33]

Never mind i answered my own question below you will see a dyno of the Active Auto dyno on 93 Pump with Meth @ 8psi

Here is what Omar Quoted on a thread he started ...............

[QUOTE=Omar@ActiveAutowerke;7544430]Active Autowerke is proud to announce the release of the highly anticipated Active Autowerke Supercharger System for the BMW E9X M3.

The advanced design and sleek features of the Active Autowerke Supercharger System include a front mount air-to-air intercooler system with a separate oil cooler for the supercharger unit's independent oil system. The Active Autowerke Supercharger Plenum replaces the factory air box and is designed to have an OEM-type look with custom finishes available at the customer's request. The Active Autowerke Supercharger Plenum has been designed with eight high-flow velocity stacks, and large three inch intercooler piping to supply cooled air.

The custom Active Autowerke Filter mounts to the supercharger unit and is enclosed in a custom intake box engineered to incorporate factory design while forcing cool air to the air box. The optional methanol injection system assists in lowering intake air temperatures and prevents detonation.

The Active Autowerke Supercharger System is powered by an HKS GTS8550 Supercharger Unit mounted with a custom CNC'ed bracket that uses a dedicated drive belt system, while eight high flow fuel injectors are used to supply the additional required fuel. Active Autowerke’s Performance Software, available for 91-93 octane, race gas, and octane levels unique to other countries, is carefully calibrated, and is at the heart of the system to provide an unparalleled driving experience. Keeping within the factory's OBDII parameters, the Active Autowerke Supercharger System ensures consistency for everyday driving.

Key Features
• AA E9X M3 Supercharger Plenum with Eight High-flow Velocity stacks
• HKS GTS8550 Supercharger
• AA Blow Off Valves & Bypass Valve
• Dedicated Belt Drive System (does not share belt with accessories)
• Eight-rib Pulley System
• Eight High-capacity Bosch Motorsport Fuel Injectors
• AA Performance Software for the MSS60 ECU with available upgrades and off road options
• CNC Hard Anodized Brackets and Hardware.
• AA Front-mount Air to Air Intercooler
• Independent Supercharger Oil Cooler
• Lifetime Traction Fluid for GTS8550 Supercharger
• Cold Air Intake Box
• AA Oil Breather System
• New Oil Line with A/N Fitting System
• High Performance AA Spec Filter
• Colder Heat Range Spark Plugs
• Methanol Injection System (Stage 2) with Progressive Controller
• All mounting hardware (plumbing, hoses and clamps) included
• Detailed, step-by-step installation manual
• All installation hardware included
• Two-year unlimited mileage warranty


Performance
650 HP and 440 ft lbs of torque

Boost
7.5 psi - 8.5 psi

[QUOTE]




Now here is a Independent dyno of my Vt600 on 93pump @ 6 psi ( i know i'm not comparing apples to apples but it still gives you a good idea )