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      03-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #45
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Good choice. Similarly, I was looking at fairly well optioned Carreras and found two I was smitten with. Then reality reeled me back in and I need more room so ended up getting a Macan.

I think you’re really going to like it. I never understood the Porsche price differential but I’m starting to get it. Our 718 Boxster is what got me.

Last edited by c1pher; 03-06-2019 at 08:55 PM..
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      03-06-2019, 08:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Why would you seal a less than perfect finish? I clay, de-iron and polish every new car before applying a sealant. Cars don't just show up at the dealer in a plastic bubble, they're railed, shipped and trucked there, picking up lots of ferrous and non ferrous debris in the process. Even with single digit miles and pulling the white tape off myself, I've burned through most of a clay bar and used lots of iron-off to get the surface clean.
If you got time, go for it.
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      03-06-2019, 08:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
I personally wouldn't want to take the clear coat down on a new car too but if you take it to apply ppf or a ceramic coating, the shop is going to polish out scratches and swirls before applying anything. Also, chances are that the dealership already polished it before delivery. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I think the key is to be as meticulous as possible and polish it just enough to remove visible abrasions before applying a protection.
As I said, if you got time, go for it.
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      03-06-2019, 09:24 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Your point is well taken, but I don't think the M3/M4 belong in the conversation as they are much larger/heavier cars, nor the C2S or 718 GTS as they are bred to perform on a different level. Also, we should acknowledge that we are not comparing apples to apples here since the P-cars have either a rear-engine or mid-engine layout, both of which provide inherent advantages on the track over the front-engine layout of the BMW. Still though, I can't help but see the 2-er as a "poor man's 911" in terms of the basic recipe being a 2+2 RWD coupe with available 6-speed manual and 3.0L turbocharged 6-cylinder. Who else besides Porsche with the 911 and BMW with the 2-er is offering this configuration today? I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

A little off-topic, but I would totally love to see a track battle between the M2 Competition and either a base 991.2 Carrera 2 or the Carrera T w/ sofas on a ~3 mile course like VIR, for example.. Same driver and same transmission option for both - either DCT/PDK or 6-speed/7-speed manual. I think this would be a fun battle to watch and probably as "apples to apples" as we can get if comparing the two platforms. The Carrera is down on power and torque, but also weighs ~400 lbs less. Any volunteers out there who want to join me at VIR this year for either the PCA HPDE or BMW CCA HPDE? I'll bring my lowly M240i and a stopwatch.
I think a 991.2 or a T would be significantly faster without question. Problem with the M2 Competition is that it is 150 lbs heavier than the M2 so almost all the power was negative by weight. I do know the 991.2 is faster than a regular M3/4 and I would place bets on it being as fast or faster than the M4 GTS on similar tires given the 991.2S on summer tires is faster than the M4 GTS on cup tires...not to mention the fact that the M4 GTS also has 80 more hp and 100 to more.
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      03-07-2019, 01:18 AM   #49
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How I ended up buying a car I didn't need, and having to sell the car I loved so much:

My interest in Porsche began with a childhood love of VWs; it was a natural progression. I put myself through college by working at a VW dealer, and collected vintage Porsches on the side. But 40 years ago, in 1979, I sold my remaining Porsches in order to bear down on the responsibilities of a career and other aspirations.

Life took its course. My ensuing car choices ran the gamut from quirky (Isetta, Thing, Insight, smart) to sensible (hybrids and EVs) to bargain sporty (Miata, Abarth). I struggled to find any car that could hold my interest.

Fast forward to today. My M240i was a return to the type of cars that I love to drive and own. I've reveled in every minute with it. But at the same time, my long-dormant craving for another Porsche was being rekindled. Wherever I went online... Miata.net, 2addicts, etc.,etc... it seemed that everybody kept talking about Porsche.

Last year, the Carrera T was launched, and it started messing with my Porsche-starved mind. The media loved the T. It seemed to tick all the boxes for me: a modernized "limited-frills" iteration of current Porsches for the enthusiasts (like me) who still prioritize driving finesse over point-and-shoot power.

I eventually got burnt out from obsessing over the T, and had to put Porsche fantasies out of my mind. Fortunately, I was still totally enthralled with my M240i, the most enjoyable car I'd ever owned.

I didn't give Porsche any more thought, until last week when I serendipitously came across a "for sale" ad for a '19 T with just 144 miles on it, at a nice discount. And the car happened to be spec'd **exactly** as I would've done it. Yikes!

February 28th was the day I discovered this T. Coincidentally, it was precisely the 7th anniversary of my mom's passing. She had been a huge Porsche fanatic (and loved driving manuals). I couldn't help but wonder if finding this T on such an auspicious day was a sign for me to treat myself in memory of her?? At least it was a way to reconcile checking out the car.

Within minutes of finding the ad, I called the dealer, ended up doing a fast negotiation, and gave a deposit. Slam, bam. Three days later, a friend drove me to LA to buy the car and drive it home.

The succession of events happened so fast that I hadn't even stopped to consider that I'd have to sell my trusty beloved brat of a BMW, a car that easily could've kept me very happy for many, many more years. I feel 100% sure, however, that I'll end up regretting parting with it.

It'd been 48 years since the last time I had driven a 911, and I had no experience with the extensive updates that Porsche had made in the past half-century during my absence. They're water-cooled now, haha. I just knew that I was salivating; lusting over this incredibly seductive car with no regard to logic or reasonability. I hadn't even bothered to test drive it before buying.

And now, for better or worse, it's mine.

To be continued: First impressions
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      03-07-2019, 08:46 AM   #50
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Congrats on finding one that ticked the right boxes (hard sometimes since so many are personalized when ordered).

Its a great car, stupid fast for the street. We looked at 991.1's recently as I trying to hang on to the last of the NA/manual cars as they are disappearing. Ended up with a Cayman GTS instead as it was a bit more raw and tossable, less phenomenal GT car.

As we continue to age like fine red wines, the T is going to look better and better.

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      03-07-2019, 08:50 AM   #51
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Top Gear, 911T vs 911GT3

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      03-08-2019, 12:10 AM   #52
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I love what you wrote, Steven. What a great story—the stuff dreams are made and just meant to be. Insanely great car—we’ll be living vicariously through you. Best of luck!!
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      03-08-2019, 08:25 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
What? No LWB + rear seat delete option?! That is why you buy the T to begin with! Trust me when I say I'm a Porsche fanatic (peep the username), but for the life of me, I cannot understand why someone would pay double or potentially near triple (depending on options) the price of a M240i for the same 0-60 time and actually a very similar driving feel in terms of being a softer, more refined type of sports car with the same 2+2 sofa seat layout, same numb-ish steering, 3.0L turbocharged 6-pot, etc. etc. Despite the marketing efforts by Porsche, the Carrera T is still no GT3...hate to be a negative Nancy, but I'm genuinely curious where your motivation came from to make the switch.
While I agree the T with the LWB is a must in my eyes, I’m sorry but the T is not comparable to the M240i in any measure. I’m fortunate enough to have had lots of seat time and laps in a T, they are nothing short of incredible. Obviously they are not a GT3 but at PDK T with rear wheel steer and N1 Cup2’s is similar in performance to a 991.1 GT3

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro View Post
Thanks, guys. Here are the first pics...
Beautiful car! Congrats!

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Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
There’s no comparison with the 240i, even the M3/4 don’t compare to the dynamics and true feel of a 911 or and Porsche sports car. I owned both an m3 and M4 and own a 991.2S and 718 Cayman GTS and wouldn’t ever compare given the strong dichotomy of how they feel to drive and out around a road course. Even the M4 GTS to me didn’t feel as nimble and responsive as my 991.2S. There’s more to cars than 0-60 but the fact that the Carrera T with a manual runs 12.1@118 mph (pdk is faster) with only 370 hp is a testament to how fast it is. No other car with that level of HP would be anywhere close. On top of that it puts down 1.06gof lateral grip.
You get it.

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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Your point is well taken, but I don't think the M3/M4 belong in the conversation as they are much larger/heavier cars, nor the C2S or 718 GTS as they are bred to perform on a different level. Also, we should acknowledge that we are not comparing apples to apples here since the P-cars have either a rear-engine or mid-engine layout, both of which provide inherent advantages on the track over the front-engine layout of the BMW. Still though, I can't help but see the 2-er as a "poor man's 911" in terms of the basic recipe being a 2+2 RWD coupe with available 6-speed manual and 3.0L turbocharged 6-cylinder. Who else besides Porsche with the 911 and BMW with the 2-er is offering this configuration today? I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

A little off-topic, but I would totally love to see a track battle between the M2 Competition and either a base 991.2 Carrera 2 or the Carrera T w/ sofas on a ~3 mile course like VIR, for example.. Same driver and same transmission option for both - either DCT/PDK or 6-speed/7-speed manual. I think this would be a fun battle to watch and probably as "apples to apples" as we can get if comparing the two platforms. The Carrera is down on power and torque, but also weighs ~400 lbs less. Any volunteers out there who want to join me at VIR this year for either the PCA HPDE or BMW CCA HPDE? I'll bring my lowly M240i and a stopwatch.
A T would destroy an M2 Comp with the same driver. I’ve owned two F80’s, and the underated power from Porsche and 400lb weight advantage makes the T leagues more capable than anything BMW has to offer.
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      03-08-2019, 09:11 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circuit Hunter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
What? No LWB + rear seat delete option?! That is why you buy the T to begin with! Trust me when I say I'm a Porsche fanatic (peep the username), but for the life of me, I cannot understand why someone would pay double or potentially near triple (depending on options) the price of a M240i for the same 0-60 time and actually a very similar driving feel in terms of being a softer, more refined type of sports car with the same 2+2 sofa seat layout, same numb-ish steering, 3.0L turbocharged 6-pot, etc. etc. Despite the marketing efforts by Porsche, the Carrera T is still no GT3...hate to be a negative Nancy, but I'm genuinely curious where your motivation came from to make the switch.
While I agree the T with the LWB is a must in my eyes, I'm sorry but the T is not comparable to the M240i in any measure. I'm fortunate enough to have had lots of seat time and laps in a T, they are nothing short of incredible. Obviously they are not a GT3 but at PDK T with rear wheel steer and N1 Cup2's is similar in performance to a 991.1 GT3

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro View Post
Thanks, guys. Here are the first pics...
Beautiful car! Congrats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
There's no comparison with the 240i, even the M3/4 don't compare to the dynamics and true feel of a 911 or and Porsche sports car. I owned both an m3 and M4 and own a 991.2S and 718 Cayman GTS and wouldn't ever compare given the strong dichotomy of how they feel to drive and out around a road course. Even the M4 GTS to me didn't feel as nimble and responsive as my 991.2S. There's more to cars than 0-60 but the fact that the Carrera T with a manual runs 12.1@118 mph (pdk is faster) with only 370 hp is a testament to how fast it is. No other car with that level of HP would be anywhere close. On top of that it puts down 1.06gof lateral grip.
You get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Your point is well taken, but I don't think the M3/M4 belong in the conversation as they are much larger/heavier cars, nor the C2S or 718 GTS as they are bred to perform on a different level. Also, we should acknowledge that we are not comparing apples to apples here since the P-cars have either a rear-engine or mid-engine layout, both of which provide inherent advantages on the track over the front-engine layout of the BMW. Still though, I can't help but see the 2-er as a "poor man's 911" in terms of the basic recipe being a 2+2 RWD coupe with available 6-speed manual and 3.0L turbocharged 6-cylinder. Who else besides Porsche with the 911 and BMW with the 2-er is offering this configuration today? I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

A little off-topic, but I would totally love to see a track battle between the M2 Competition and either a base 991.2 Carrera 2 or the Carrera T w/ sofas on a ~3 mile course like VIR, for example.. Same driver and same transmission option for both - either DCT/PDK or 6-speed/7-speed manual. I think this would be a fun battle to watch and probably as "apples to apples" as we can get if comparing the two platforms. The Carrera is down on power and torque, but also weighs ~400 lbs less. Any volunteers out there who want to join me at VIR this year for either the PCA HPDE or BMW CCA HPDE? I'll bring my lowly M240i and a stopwatch.
A T would destroy an M2 Comp with the same driver. I've owned two F80's, and the underated power from Porsche and 400lb weight advantage makes the T leagues more capable than anything BMW has to offer.
Correct, but I think what is getting overlooked is that the basis for my initial comment was price and the type of drive it offers on the street being comparable to a 2-series. I still say not worth the upgrade cost, but that's just me sharing my opinion. Steven clearly felt otherwise, and I'm happy for him.

I also think the Carrera would beat the M2C on track. Question is by how much? I'd still like to see this battle take place! Until the M2C came along, BMW had nothing even close to comparable in terms of wheelbase/size/weight/performance. Now, there's something in the ballpark that could make for a fun show and an interesting outcome. That's all I'm saying here.
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      03-08-2019, 09:33 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Correct, but I think what is getting overlooked is that the basis for my initial comment was price and the type of drive it offers on the street being comparable to a 2-series. I still say not worth the upgrade cost, but that's just me sharing my opinion. Steven clearly felt otherwise, and I'm happy for him.

I also think the Carrera would beat the M2C on track. Question is by how much? I'd still like to see this battle take place! Until the M2C came along, BMW had nothing even close to comparable in terms of wheelbase/size/weight/performance. Now, there's something in the ballpark that could make for a fun show and an interesting outcome. That's all I'm saying here.
I like the M2C but it's too heavy. It's the same weight as an M3/M4 and has less room for wide r-comps. I do like the size the though.
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      03-10-2019, 03:25 PM   #56
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Driving impressions:

After the first week of cohabitation with my 'T', during which time I've been a ball of nerves, I have a lot of very good impressions to report... and a few not-so-good things that make me miss the perpetually easygoing nature and cheery character of my M240i. I'm not at all sure that the new car and I will have a long term romance, or just a brief, torrid, and costly affair.

Driving the 'T' is an experience that can't be described by its performance stats (0-60 in 3.5s, 1.05g cornering, per Car & Driver for a PDK version, as mine is). The real story is in its phenomenal road composure and adhesion, steering that defies description for its feedback and precision, visceral thrills from its brute linear power and invigorating symphony of glorious sounds, and sure-footed brakes that gracefully engage in a way that makes stopping nearly as exciting as accelerating.

Put these mechanical systems together, and you have the feeling of a car that is so composed that it feels unshakable under any conditions. Last night, I took my favorite twisty backroads to Target, and the tightest curves were non-events compared to my M240i. The light nose of the 'T' chomps at the bit to point in a new direction. It's a quintessential "car on rails". No roll. Zero quibbles. Overall, this car exudes über-confidence to the highest level; you feel 'in command' rather than at the effect of the road conditions. Each time I've driven it has been mind boggling.

Mechanically, the 'T' comes standard with most of the enthusiast-coveted handling upgrades. My 'T' also came with many comfort/luxury options. The 18-way seats in Sport-Tex (a handsome woven stranded vinyl fabric) are especially worth mentioning.

But... here's where I have a problem. Despite delivering a never-ending delight based solely on driving dynamics – a solid 10/10 in my book – there's the matter of daily life with the car.

Disclaimer: The 'T' makes a fine daily driver... in most senses. It hasn't sacrificed ride quality for performance. You feel every pebble in the road, but not unpleasantly so. It is very firm, but not rough or jarring. And, although the cabin isn't as quiet as a library, it's never bothersome.

Where things go wrong are with the buttons, software, and out-of-date functionality. Illogicality prevails when searching for "where'd they hide this" feature/screen/button, etc. Unlike BMW, CarPlay is not wireless in the P-car. In fairness, the everyday frustrations that I'm having will probably diminish as as I get used to all the back-asswardness of it all. To Porsche's credit, they've added a lot of redundant controls to effectively double your odds of finding out where they've hidden this or that goodie.

The 'frunk' is really awkward... last week I pulled up to Trader Joe's in the rain, but when I came back to load my groceries up front, I realized the curb was filled with rainwater. Even when the weather's good, its far-inset cargo area requires a lengthy reach past the nose of the car; not optimal with heavy grocery bags.

But these are non-enthusiast quibbles, right?

Several times the 'Entry & Drive' access wouldn't unlock the driver's door until the third try (swearing at it seemed to help). If you wanna look like a doofus getting into your new Porsche, just try unlocking it in public, grrr. Neither have I mastered the seemingly elementary double-click alarm 'disable' feature for the cabin's motion sensor, so that my dog doesn't set off the alarm. Eeek.

The break-in period for these engines is <drumroll> 2,000 miles. During that time, I'm expected to respect a 4,200 RPM limit and not to make "short" trips. Whatever the latter means, it'll take me six months to break in the engine.

Only time will tell whether or not I'm Porsche material. Certainly, the car has NO intention of adapting further to me. Its so-called charms are of the 'take-it-or-leave-it variety. Anyone who's ever been delivered such an indifferent car-speak dare, in the course of a fledgling man-metal romance, will understand the intrigue of that sort of callously indifferent affront.

Crazy focking German hottie. Time to head down to the garage and head out for a wild road romp.
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      03-10-2019, 05:44 PM   #57
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It's a 2 seater, rear engine sport car. It's not fair to expect practicality. I once was driven in a 996 convertible with stock suspensions and the ride was definitely harsher than my E46 M3 with after market shocks and springs.
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      03-10-2019, 09:02 PM   #58
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Congrats. Always fun to read people's stories of lifelong obsession with cars. You're in good hands with Porsche - one of the few remaining automakers who still listen to people like us
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      03-11-2019, 10:39 AM   #59
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Honestly don't see how you can daily this thing, too many compromises.
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      03-11-2019, 11:36 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Honestly don't see how you can daily this thing, too many compromises.
I suppose it depends what your daily routine consists of right? If you are constantly hauling large items around or have multiple passengers then yea, probably not a practical vehicle choice. But if you mainly go back and forth to an office and arent picking up 2x4's from home depot then the 911 makes a great daily driver.
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      03-11-2019, 11:41 AM   #61
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Once you get used to what all the switches do, it's very easy to use them without taking your eyes off the road, unlike a screen based system. The button locations are consistent across similar model years of other models too so once you get used to it, you can jump in a Panamera, etc, and just go.
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      03-11-2019, 09:46 PM   #62
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Once you get used to what all the switches do, it's very easy...
Yes, you're right! I spent a long time reading the manual last night, configuring settings, doing a map update, and generally learning how things work. Today I removed the ugly sun visor warning stickers.

Just since yesterday, I'm feeling much less uncertain about this (big) purchase after becoming more familiar with it. The car is amazing... phenomenal. And so now it's time to relax and really enjoy it.

Quote:
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Honestly don't see how you can daily this thing, too many compromises.
Of the 34 cars I've had, this car is the second largest, hahahaha.
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      03-14-2019, 12:56 AM   #63
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Congrats.
Personally, I would rather save the extra few bucks and settle for Carrera S manual.
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      03-15-2019, 06:24 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
It's a 2 seater, rear engine sport car.
Actually it's a 2+2 rear-engine sports car. Those rear seats are critically important as that's where the golf clubs go. 💡
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      03-16-2019, 03:54 PM   #65
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I always knew (and said) that my M240i was my favorite car ever. Sure, there were arguably "better" cars, but the BMW suited me like an old favorite shirt that I'd want to wear every day.

I expected that the 911 would give me the same feeling, and then some. And on paper, it did. But I'm not feeling a soulful connection with the supremely "better" (far more competent) 911.

If I could have a do-over, I'd still be driving my trusty Bimmer.

I can't say one bad word about the Porsche. It just doesn't **suit** me; it's a matter of 'fit'...

An M240i has a multi-dimensional personality that adapts to every purpose and driving mood. On the other hand, the 911 is singularly focused and inflexibly serious in its mission and character.

The 911 would never fail to make a great first, second, and third impression. And honestly, if you're willing to conform yourself to the car's idiosyncrasies, it can be a daily driver. But a 911 demands being fussed over, in a demanding "take it or leave it" way. OTOH, the M240i requires no such sacrifice, ever, from the driver – it's the better balanced all-purpose livability winner.

You might think that what I'm reporting should have been obvious. But I'd argue that the experience has been like a new pair of shoes that seem to fit well, until you've worn them for a couple of hours.

I'm not in any way dissatisfies with the 911 (for what it is), but it won't be a long-term occupant of my garage. We are just not a 'match' for each other. I enjoy rowdiness, at times, but sometimes it becomes overbearing when there's no 'relax' button to press. I'm glad for having had the experience... sometimes we just need to scratch an itch.

Not sure what's next, but my extreme happiness with BMW will most certainly lead me right back here. Maybe the new Z, while waiting for the next-gen 2 Series to arrive. Gawd, I miss my M240i.

D'oh! Live and learn. Sometimes "better" isn't really better.
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—Steve

'19 MX-5 Miata GT-S soft top
Past BMWs: two '57 Isetta 300s, '70 1600, '72 Bavaria, '78 320i, '18 M240i
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      03-16-2019, 06:21 PM   #66
WestRace
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Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
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OP should get an E46 M3. I got the same feeling with the E9X M3 ... no soul lols.
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