[vitaly]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

It’s honestly so bad I’m considering walking away. They’re now telling me mf is .00168. I could’ve signed for this thing a week ago with a mf of ..00145 and 58 percent residual.

Sept MF is .00128 - looks like they marked you up.

[gatordent2007]

I know they did and I’m pissed they tried to pull a quick one. They literally are marking the deal up by close to 4000 bucks over the lease term with the mf money factor and what they want me to put down. The salesman literally told me to just purchase it if I was worried about the residual value and mf lol. He got pissed that I told him there’s no way I’m touching a car that can lose that type of value and I’ll back out of the deal. I never signed a lease agreement or purchase, only a piece of paper showing me the discount they were going to give me on the car

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

The salesman literally told me to just purchase it if I was worried about the residual value (..)

LOL - THAT'S a new one!

Stupid me - I always thought it was the other way round...

[vitaly]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

I know they did and I’m pissed they tried to pull a quick one. They literally are marking the deal up by close to 4000 bucks over the lease term with the mf money factor and what they want me to put down. The salesman literally told me to just purchase it if I was worried about the residual value and mf lol. He got pissed that I told him there’s no way I’m touching a car that can lose that type of value and I’ll back out of the deal. I never signed a lease agreement or purchase, only a piece of paper showing me the discount they were going to give me on the car

I know it's tempting, but arguing/debating with dealers is a waste of time and nerves. Tell him where they need to be or else you walk, there's nothing to discuss - it's not the debate club.

[vitaly]

Originally Posted by aas5

Thanks Vitaly, very helpful. I will check out the M5. I am sure it's a great car just not sure if it's perfect for being the family car. FWIW, I was at the Nurburgring with an M4 last year at a private BMW event and there was another group with M5s. M5s looked very solid on the race track and were significantly faster than us, especially in the rain.

I don't mind waiting for the new x5M just worried that there won't be aby decent deals on them by mid next year.

Of course, no problem. Happy to share more feedback over PM (so as to not derail this thread).

[NOVA99]

Originally Posted by vitaly

I know it's tempting, but arguing/debating with dealers is a waste of time and nerves. Tell him where they need to be or else you walk, there's nothing to discuss - it's not the debate club.

That is BS. Those residuals are not good. BMW losing their ass lately on the glut of lease returns they have sitting. I expect on average residuals will be lower moving forward. don't let the dealer mark up your MF.

[gatordent2007]

The big thing for me is that I’ve been asking for the lease numbers for weeks as the only thing I ever signed was that paper showing the discount. Had I known the residual would drop 2% in a matter of days, I would’ve gone ahead and finished the paperwork. The money factor drop does not make up for that big of a drop on the residual so I could’ve leased it for at least a hundred less a month if they had responded in a more timely manner. I am considering purchase as it’s through my business and there are certain tax benefits to that as well, but I worry a 110k bmw will be worth 45 in 3 years, so the extra 500 per month between a lease vs purchase only makes it even more risky

[Wolfman64]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

The big thing for me is that I’ve been asking for the lease numbers for weeks as the only thing I ever signed was that paper showing the discount. Had I known the residual would drop 2% in a matter of days, I would’ve gone ahead and finished the paperwork. The money factor drop does not make up for that big of a drop on the residual so I could’ve leased it for at least a hundred less a month if they had responded in a more timely manner. I am considering purchase as it’s through my business and there are certain tax benefits to that as well, but I worry a 110k bmw will be worth 45 in 3 years, so the extra 500 per month between a lease vs purchase only makes it even more risky

This doesn't sound like a dealer I would do business with. They are maxxing the allowed markup on MF and even the base MF is a retail rate. There is a mark-up in the base rate as well.

That said, the residuals are out of the dealers control and there is no heads-up for them on any changes. Traditionally of course, residual only goes one way; down

Rare exceptions are corrections, like they did on the '19 M5's after they dropped 10% between model years and the promo of prior years models.

Either way BMW residuals are rather optimistic and the ACV is often well below the residual. Leasing is a better deal for us and the tax savings for business is just as good IMO.

Good luck!

[760Lifan]

As I said, I have a feeling right now that the bad residual they are offering now has something to do with 'motivating' potential buyers to go with a MY19.

There is absolutely no other reason why they are doing this. I certainly don't know why a MY19 should (or will) have a higher residual than a MY20 so if they wanted to put a hold on losing money due to inflated residuals, they would have applied those lower numbers on the MY19 as well. After all, they are now even offering incentives already on some MY19s...

[gatordent2007]

So would it make sense that the purchase option is better then if the only reason for a residual drop would be to make leasing the 19 much more attractive right now, rather than an indicator that the value of the car will suck long term?

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

So would it make sense that the purchase option is better then if the only reason for a residual drop would be to make leasing the 19 much more attractive right now, rather than an indicator that the value of the car will suck long term?

If purchasing is better also depends on your configuration and what you are planning to do with the vehicle.

If you want to keep it for +5 years and aren't aiming at an absolutely loaded one, you can certainly buy as well.

On the other hand, I would not touch a purchase with a long stick if it would be fully loaded and if I only wanted to keep it for 3 years.

My current 2017 Audi Q7 is a perfect example: The lease-conditions were VERY bad but I knew right away I would only want to keep it for 3 years. It is fully loaded at $88K.

I leased it for 10k miles/year and get this - even with only 10k total miles (so 20k below contract), the buy out price would be about $15k ABOVE trade-in value in February. If I would have put on the entire 30k miles, probably closer to $20k. So even with a crappy lease, I'm thankful I'm not stuck and bound to negative equity.

Always keep in mind that there are many people out there who are just walking over a lot, have no need to order and aren't enthusiasts like us. The way they set up the lease deals right now is a great way to get them into the vehicles they want to get off the lot (MY19).

The discounts on those vehicles are high, the residuals are higher, the MF was just reduced for September AND incentives were offered for the first time. BMW is probably losing money from here on on the MY19s and the lower residuals on the MY20s could very well be a temporary fix to make up for some of that.

And this is not something special for BMW. Basically all manufacturers offer better deals on the previous MY shortly after the new MY rolled out.

[gatordent2007]

My current 7 series is in the same boat as far as residual being at least 15 grand higher than I could purchase one for similarly right now. I keep telling myself that since this is the first vehicle I’ve ever ordered and chosen exactly what I want, then I’ll keep it longer than 3 years. But then reality sets in and I realize that there’s no way I won’t get tired of any car after 3 years lol. If the residual hadn’t taken such a hit, I would just lease all day. I’m still more than likely doing that but it’s nice to have someone else’s perspective on it. I appreciate the insight.

[vitaly]

I agree with 760 - the reduced RV on MY20 is temporary, to encourage moving MY19 (there's a *ton* of them).

RV in general is just a lease knob, it's not really their reflection of car value. If it were, it'd need to be build-specific for example (color, options, etc). As it stands, they use it like an incentive almost. BMW wants to move 19s, there's no immediate need for them to push 20s. In addition, they push some of the RV risk onto the lessee for 20s. Once 19s are cleared, RV will likely come back a few points.

As for what's better, estimate your TCO over the span of anticipated ownership duration in both scenarios. If you're not keeping for more than 3 years, leasing is typically better on BMWs. You get a guaranteed buyer at lease end, and you pay a small premium for that (ie MF > financing rate). But with BMW flooding the market with leases, there's a lot of supply on the used car market - all those vehicles coming off leases. It's hard to have any decent resale in that setup.

[aas5]

Originally Posted by Wolfman64

This doesn't sound like a dealer I would do business with. They are maxxing the allowed markup on MF and even the base MF is a retail rate. There is a mark-up in the base rate as well.

That said, the residuals are out of the dealers control and there is no heads-up for them on any changes. Traditionally of course, residual only goes one way; down

Rare exceptions are corrections, like they did on the '19 M5's after they dropped 10% between model years and the promo of prior years models.

Either way BMW residuals are rather optimistic and the ACV is often well below the residual. Leasing is a better deal for us and the tax savings for business is just as good IMO.

Good luck!

I find it strange that you guys think the residuals are expected to go down or only go down. That's certainly not what I've witnessed over the years tracking lease residuals on BMWs that I was interested in. That's especially true with M cars for which the residuals have generally improved significantly over the last 10 years. Whether that will reverse or not is hard to know and there are certainly no news that I am aware of that would suggest that. What is your source of info?

[gatordent2007]

Finally signed! Hoping I did ok.

Msrp 109595
Sale price 100711
Rebate 1250 loyalty

36/10K 1399/month
2450 out of pocket includes 1st month.

They also picked up my last month lease payment in my 7 series which was 1200 and tinted the 2 front windows. Also threw in 100 bucks worth of merchandise from their shop.

I screwed up and thought it was 36/12 for that price until I sat to sign and realized they based on a 36/10. I still figured it was a good enough deal and not worth walking

Of course the sales manager kept going on and on about this being a ridiculous deal on this car but it wouldn’t be a car deal without hearing that lol.

Thoughts?

[JVZanetti]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

Finally signed! Hoping I did ok.

Msrp 109595
Sale price 100711
Rebate 1250 loyalty

36/10K 1399/month
2450 out of pocket includes 1st month.

They also picked up my last month lease payment in my 7 series which was 1200 and tinted the 2 front windows. Also threw in 100 bucks worth of merchandise from their shop.

I screwed up and thought it was 36/12 for that price until I sat to sign and realized they based on a 36/10. I still figured it was a good enough deal and not worth walking

Of course the sales manager kept going on and on about this being a ridiculous deal on this car but it wouldn’t be a car deal without hearing that lol.

Thoughts?

Is it 20M50 or 1950i? Not bad for m50i. No Msd or mf markup? If 1950i, supposed another $1k lease credit

[gatordent2007]

That’s on an ordered M50i

[JVZanetti]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

That’s on an ordered M50i

Sounds fair deal offered by dealer. Only issue probably low rv and incentive from manufacturer but you may get better deal if take delivery in October or November when BMW adjust the rv and add incentive after all MY19 inventory gone

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

Finally signed! Hoping I did ok.

Msrp 109595
Sale price 100711

This is not too bad!

Honestly, I'm quite surprised to see 8% off that early in the MY on an ordered M50i - ESPECIALLY in our area which is - well - not known for offering the best deals..

gatordent, if you don't mind, could you PM me which dealer offered this to you? This might make my hunt to get 10% off locally in December much easier...

Could you also share all the fees they are going to charge you (tag, doc. fees etc.)? When I'm going to the dealer, I would like to be as prepared as possible when it comes to the monthly payment. Of course, this is only possible when you have all the numbers and those fees are part of it. Did they also offer a wheel & tire insurance and if so, for how much?

Thanks!

[chas1025]

We are currently looking at an X7 or Q7. The Audi dealers are very generous right now with the model refresh for 2020 occurring. I have never dealt with BMW dealers before, so not sure what kinds of deals people are receiving.

Right now, what are good lease rates for the X7 or good percentages off MSRP for purchase. We typically purchase, so the leasing is a foreign thought for us as we normally keep our cars a few years.

[Jarecki]

Originally Posted by gatordent2007

Finally signed! Hoping I did ok.

Msrp 109595
Sale price 100711
Rebate 1250 loyalty

36/10K 1399/month
2450 out of pocket includes 1st month.

They also picked up my last month lease payment in my 7 series which was 1200 and tinted the 2 front windows. Also threw in 100 bucks worth of merchandise from their shop.

I screwed up and thought it was 36/12 for that price until I sat to sign and realized they based on a 36/10. I still figured it was a good enough deal and not worth walking

Of course the sales manager kept going on and on about this being a ridiculous deal on this car but it wouldn’t be a car deal without hearing that lol.

Thoughts?

Does the lease payment include taxes? Because $1,399 sounds high on that sale price.

[gatordent2007]

Originally Posted by Jarecki

Does the lease payment include taxes? Because $1,399 sounds high on that sale price.

Yes. Tax Included.