[RSouthern]

Ok, I understand that it’s expensive to live in the SF Bay Area, but yesterday at my local dealer, while taking in our 2020 x7 M50i for a warranty repair (before the warranty expired by 4 days!) my service advisor recommended we do the oil service early to save having to bring the car back in 2 months.

They have the sheet they give with 3 choices, minimum, something and recommended. The minimum cost was $2200+, I think the recommend was $2700+. For what the car says should be an oil service and visual inspection according to upcoming services in the app. The dealer sheet listed replacing the windshield wipers, coolant flush, replacing all the filters (cabin, recirc, engine and something else), topping off wiper fluid and a number of other minor items, I guess to make it seem like a bunch of value for the money.

I’m shocked the dealer would be pushing for all this, but they are a business and trying to make money. To be fair the advisor seemed a bit embarrassed when I questioned him on this list, especially when more than half are just normal things that most people can do when needed.

The car only needs an oil and filter change and a visual inspection is never a bad idea if it’s up on a rack already.


Are people really getting sucked into paying this amount or am I missing something about extra care that’s needed that the users manual and app don’t mention? My dad recently took their i3 to a different BMW dealer and paid $1200 for the oil change there. I wasn’t there to question it, so he paid. Now I see why he didn’t call me, they try to make you feel it’s necessary. Feels a little like elder abuse/exploitation in his case if you ask me.

What are you all seeing your dealers recommending for your 2019/2020 X7s or other recent but out-of-service-coverage BMWs? Am I missing something?

P.s. the X7 has 41k miles incase someone is looking at service recommendations

[Brendon]

Sounds pretty outrageous. And a coolant flush at 41k miles feels pretty early for a modern vehicle.
All in that's probably less than $300 in parts, and maybe 2-3hrs of labor unless the inspection is heavily detailed and also includes lubrication and cleaning various drains.
Based on the list of items they provided you, it feels like they're trying to bend you over. I'd ask if vaseline comes with it.

[Ex_Stig]

I honestly don’t take my ‘20 X7 to the dealer for service. Find yourself a good independent mechanic.

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by RSouthern

Ok, I understand that it’s expensive to live in the SF Bay Area, but yesterday at my local dealer, while taking in our 2020 x7 M50i for a warranty repair (before the warranty expired by 4 days!) my service advisor recommended we do the oil service early to save having to bring the car back in 2 months.

They have the sheet they give with 3 choices, minimum, something and recommended. The minimum cost was $2200+, I think the recommend was $2700+. For what the car says should be an oil service and visual inspection according to upcoming services in the app. The dealer sheet listed replacing the windshield wipers, coolant flush, replacing all the filters (cabin, recirc, engine and something else), topping off wiper fluid and a number of other minor items, I guess to make it seem like a bunch of value for the money.

I’m shocked the dealer would be pushing for all this, but they are a business and trying to make money. To be fair the advisor seemed a bit embarrassed when I questioned him on this list, especially when more than half are just normal things that most people can do when needed.

The car only needs an oil and filter change and a visual inspection is never a bad idea if it’s up on a rack already.


Are people really getting sucked into paying this amount or am I missing something about extra care that’s needed that the users manual and app don’t mention? My dad recently took their i3 to a different BMW dealer and paid $1200 for the oil change there. I wasn’t there to question it, so he paid. Now I see why he didn’t call me, they try to make you feel it’s necessary. Feels a little like elder abuse/exploitation in his case if you ask me.

What are you all seeing your dealers recommending for your 2019/2020 X7s or other recent but out-of-service-coverage BMWs? Am I missing something?

P.s. the X7 has 41k miles incase someone is looking at service recommendations

I just asked my daughter and wife, if the dealer told you you needed $2200 in service, that includes an oil change, what would you do?

They both independently stated that they do it, no questioned asked. If the bill were to be too much, they'd go get a cheaper car.

So, if you don't know about cars, nor care, any advice from someone else at the dealer or repair shop will be assumed to be "sound" and "good" advice, and if enough of that advice come along that exceeds the affordability threshold, a cheaper alternative is sought.

I personally don't know how to educate vehicle owners that $2200 is too much for a few filters and quarts of oil. Do you?

[zippytank49]

Originally Posted by RSouthern

Are people really getting sucked into paying this amount or am I missing something about extra care that’s needed that the users manual and app don’t mention? My dad recently took their i3 to a different BMW dealer and paid $1200 for the oil change there. I wasn’t there to question it, so he paid. Now I see why he didn’t call me, they try to make you feel it’s necessary. Feels a little like elder abuse/exploitation in his case if you ask me.

What are you all seeing your dealers recommending for your 2019/2020 X7s or other recent but out-of-service-coverage BMWs? Am I missing something?

P.s. the X7 has 41k miles incase someone is looking at service recommendations

I hope you meant X3, because the i3 is a BEV and doesn't even have an engine! If it was an i3, then definitely something fishy going on with the dealer.

That $2200 quote is at least double what they should be charging for those services. What you experienced could become the new norm as future vehicle sales could decrease dramatically, the dealerships will need to increase their service dept. revenue to make up for fewer sales. If all the dealers adopt a similar model and pricing, then we'll have to accept or go independent. And as the vehicles become more and more complicated to work on, there will be fewer indy's to choose from...

[thenew3]

Originally Posted by zippytank49

I hope you meant X3, because the i3 is a BEV and doesn't even have an engine! If it was an i3, then definitely something fishy going on with the dealer.

i3 was available with an range extender (aka gasoline engine). And that needs regular service including oil changes.

[jrmMD]

So I had a similar shocking experience with my 2019 X5, took it to dealer for 4th annual service (first one not covered by BMW), and was shocked at the $1000+ cost.

So to break it down, $250 for engine air filter replace, $250 for 'vehicle inspection', $267 for cabin air filter replacement, and the cheapest part was the engine oil/filter replacement at $210. It quickly adds up.

They did find a fault in the heater element for the front camera that required windshield replacement, and this was 2 weeks before the 4 year warranty expired, so got that done for free.

I knew I could not skip parts of the annual service to keep my extended warranty in force, so I gulped and paid it.

Checked with other local dealerships about cost, and possible pre-payment plan for cost savings, but still comes out to about $1000 per annual service.

But the OP's cost was double this, and clearly more of a scam than usual (I mean, come on, cabin airfilters are what, $45 at most, and maybe 30 min labor to get them replaced, clearly not $250 worth, and the visual inspection of all the lights and fluid levels also not more than 15-20 min, so $250 is excessive there too, but it's the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' )

[thenew3]

$2200 is a lot more than just an oil service. But most owners don't know much about cars and that's how dealers (and some independent shops) make $.

My local dealer charges $250 for a normal oil change. They used to have a "Value service" menu pre-pandemic that had a $99 oil change. If you compare the description of the two, the only difference between the normal oil change and the value oil change is that the value oil change doesn't include a "vehicle check" But in reality, the techs doing the work always do the vehicle check regardless of which oil change you paid for.

BMW sells a pre-paid 3 year unlimited oil change package, used to be $199 but they raised it to $225 a few months ago. Unfortunately I don't think you qualify yet. The vehicle has to be 6 years old or has 60k miles on it to buy this package.

If you plan to keep the car long term, you can see if the dealer has a oil change package you can purchase. Mine sold a "Lifetime" oil change package for $600. Up to 2 oil changes per year for as long as you own the car.

[thenew3]

Over charging for maintenance/service is not isolated to BMW. It's an industry wide thing. Most dealers don't profit from new/used car sales. Their profits comes from service dept. So they try to get as much out of the customer as they can. And most folks don't know enough about cars (and don't really care to learn) and just take whatever the service advisor tells them.

I know an older lady who pays $750 twice a year for "oil change" on her Mazda 6 that she only drive 4k miles a year. Also I have friends who take their toyota to the dealer for $400 oil changes every 3k miles (basically every other month) because the dealer told them that was what's needed to keep the car running reliably. They also take the car to the dealer for a check up every time they plan to do a trip of more than 2 hours, because that's what the dealer told them to do. (and it's a $200 check up).
Truth is most people don't know much about cars and don't care to learn. They just do what the service advisor tells them. And unfortunately most Service Advisors (both at dealers and independent shops) take advantage of that to get more $ out of the customer.

[RSouthern]

I started this thread and appreciate the discussion. I was trying to make the point that while it's expensive to get a BMW service the dealers are adding a lot of unnecessary service items to increase their profit margins.

In any case, at least in the case of my dealer here in the Silicon Valley area, it seems that they have a practice of making an excessive profit by offering things that aren't needed on top of already premium pricing and I wanted to see if other regions/countries also see the same thing or is it just California?

BTW, I did find the "recommended service menu" the SA gave me and for the low low price of $2200, their minimum service is the following:

• Engine filter and oil servce
• engine air filter
• cabin filter
• replace re circulation filter (I didn't know there was a separate filter from the cabin - good to know I guess)
• a scope check (are they pulling a plug and scoping all the cylinders?)
• clearing the service light
• tire service and alignment - maybe if you had a square setup and had some unusual tire wear this makes sense but at 40k miles you probably just replaced your tires, like I did
• radiator flush
• vehicle check (visual or read ODB2 port - it doesn't say)
• wiper blade replacement (he said they recommend annual replacement - here in CA that's probably 3x too often)
• windshield wiper fluid top off
• fuel system cleaner (I'm guessing a can of Seafoam or similar in the gas tank)
• a multipoint inspection (how's this different from the vehicle check - other than it's probably a visual when it's on the rack - plus, they already walk around the vehicle and do this when the car is checked in - and send you the video of their walk around)

As you can see, there are multiple unnecessary items on this list, several redundant items and several things that you can do in 5 mins in your parking stall or garage. My point is, read and understand what you are being offered and ask questions, after all, it's your money. If you don't care, then you can buy peace of mind, but there's nothing special about what they are doing that the driver can (and probably should) do on a regular basis.

in case you're interested, the mid level service (ironically named "value" for $400 more than the minimum) adds a crankcase and fuel system cleaning and a fuel injector cleaning. Again, I suspect it's Seafoam or similar into the oil filler before they drain it and another can in the fuel tank (is that 2 cans total into the fuel?)

The top level (they call preferred because I'm sure they prefer to see it due to healthy margins) is $2700 and adds an ethanol corrosion service. (I have no idea what they would add to stop corrosion from ethanol when cars since 2000 have all been designed for the potentially drying effects on the rubber seals and hoses of ethanol. I guess if you "prevent" something that doesn't happen, you can claim you prevented it. It's hard to prove a negative after all.

The service manual says the car needs an oil change, which is going to be around $300-400, so yeah, you probably don't need most of these items although none will cause actual harm (other than to your wallet), a few cans of $10 seafoam and a gallon of wiper fluid and you've saved yourself $2000+

And if your family or friends have a BMW or Mercedes or other premium car, help educate them on what's needed at what age or mileage (or point them to the user manual) to see what the manufacturer recommends. Help them feel that they are looking after their car without spending money on unnecessary services. I wish I had done that with my dad but didn't hear about his i3 service (yes for the ReX engine, 800cc motorcycle/scooter engine driving a generator) until after he had way overspent for that service.

I'm ok with higher dealer prices vs an independent shop to a point - not that I'm defending this excess I just detailed. I've used both and each has advantages/disadvantages for different types of work. I prefer the dealer since they only work on that car brand and should have all the right tools, procedures and fluids with no need to substitute and if they screw something up, it's a lot easier to get the things fixed with OEM parts (think wheel rim scratches when replacing a tire). Independent shops are going to cost less and can do most of the standard work once out of warranty and may be the only option for older cars or special/unique models.

[RSouthern]

Originally Posted by thenew3

Truth is most people don't know much about cars and don't care to learn. They just do what the service advisor tells them. And unfortunately most Service Advisors (both at dealers and independent shops) take advantage of that to get more $ out of the customer.

I heard that many SAs are actually commissioned so it's in their interest to sell you more services or to do a service earlier than needed. I don't know if this is actually true, but I did hear it from several different SAs at different dealerships over the last decade or so. I hope I'm not propagating a rumor, but it explains a lot and is a good reason to find a trustworthy SA and look after him/her.

[omnid00d]

New M50i owner here, after my experience with Volvo in the past 7yrs, I sprung for ultimate care because of how expensive service can get on European cars (even Japanese ones) here in the SF Bay Area. BMW service looks easily 50% more than Volvo service. I go to an indy shop in Santa Clara from time to time but only found them to be like 5-10% less than the dealer down the street but I do trust them more.

I always thought it's in part due to there just being too much money here and shops try to take advantage of that (2k is like daily noise in some ppl's RSU accounts). So I think in the end, there's just too many ppl with money that don't bother to question the dealer and end up paying for service that amounts to (in part) to those detox juice cleanses :P

[Qsilver7]

In regard to service once your BMW is out of warranty...an informed BMW owner that is out of their warranty period and doesn't have the tools or the time to do their own services...BMW does offer some value services at pretty competitive pricing.

They even have a website where you can enter your zip code to find the local BMW dealerships that near you that offer value service pricing. Do know that each dealership can offer different pricing and different services. So if you have multiple BMW dealerships in your general vicinity...I would recommend checking them all to see if you can get additional savings. And also know that the more you educate yourself on services offered...you can decline things you can do yourself or elsewhere for less. Things like air filters and wiper blades are simple to do and even if you want to use oe parts...you can call or walk into the dealership's PARTS DEPT and order the parts & install them yourself. Or you can find other places like Discount Tire that will not only sell but install wiper blades at a competitive price if you don't want to take the 5 minutes to do it yourself.

Here's the BMW Value Service website where you can check value service pricing for your BMWs that are no longer in warranty (past 60 months): https://bmwusaservice.com/valueservice

[TahoeDust]

Sheeesh. My Mom's 430i Convertible got it's oil changed at the dealership today and it was $150. They even sent a little inspection video when they were done...

[Jalndrs]

I just took my wife’s 2020 m50 with 14k miles in for an oil change. They wanted me to replace air filters and cabin for a cost of 750 for just the fingers. I took a pass and will take care of those myself. They also wanted to charge 375 to update my software which I also passed on. So with just the oil change and inspection it totaled 135.

[MR_M2]

FWIW, I just paid 2k for a scheduled service for my M2 in the bay area. It included:

- oil change
- cabin micro filter
- spark plugs

[tatoweb]

Originally Posted by Jalndrs

I just took my wife’s 2020 m50 with 14k miles in for an oil change. They wanted me to replace air filters and cabin for a cost of 750 for just the fingers. I took a pass and will take care of those myself. They also wanted to charge 375 to update my software which I also passed on. So with just the oil change and inspection it totaled 135.

$750 just for filters????

[tatoweb]

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

In regard to service once your BMW is out of warranty...an informed BMW owner that is out of their warranty period and doesn't have the tools or the time to do their own services...BMW does offer some value services at pretty competitive pricing.

They even have a website where you can enter your zip code to find the local BMW dealerships that near you that offer value service pricing. Do know that each dealership can offer different pricing and different services. So if you have multiple BMW dealerships in your general vicinity...I would recommend checking them all to see if you can get additional savings. And also know that the more you educate yourself on services offered...you can decline things you can do yourself or elsewhere for less. Things like air filters and wiper blades are simple to do and even if you want to use oe parts...you can call or walk into the dealership's PARTS DEPT and order the parts & install them yourself. Or you can find other places like Discount Tire that will not only sell but install wiper blades at a competitive price if you don't want to take the 5 minutes to do it yourself.

Here's the BMW Value Service website where you can check value service pricing for your BMWs that are no longer in warranty (past 60 months): https://bmwusaservice.com/valueservice

Good info. I used the link, but it showed no specials in the surrounding areas. However, if you get into each dealer’s website, you can see their specials.

[tatoweb]

Originally Posted by RSouthern

I started this thread and appreciate the discussion. I was trying to make the point that while it's expensive to get a BMW service the dealers are adding a lot of unnecessary service items to increase their profit margins.

In any case, at least in the case of my dealer here in the Silicon Valley area, it seems that they have a practice of making an excessive profit by offering things that aren't needed on top of already premium pricing and I wanted to see if other regions/countries also see the same thing or is it just California?

BTW, I did find the "recommended service menu" the SA gave me and for the low low price of $2200, their minimum service is the following:[LIST][*]Engine filter and oil servce[*]engine air filter[*]cabin filter[*]replace re circulation filter (I didn't know there was a separate filter from the cabin - good to know I guess)[*]a scope check (are they pulling a plug and scoping all the cylinders?)[*]clearing the service light[*]tire service and alignment - maybe if you had a square setup and had some unusual tire wear this makes sense but at 40k miles you probably just replaced your tires, like I did[*]radiator flush[*]vehicle check (visual or read ODB2 port - it doesn't say)[*]wiper blade replacement (he said they recommend annual replacement - here in CA that's probably 3x too often)[*]windshield wiper fluid top off [*]fuel system cleaner (I'm guessing a can of Seafoam or similar in the gas tank)[*]a multipoint inspection (how's this different from the vehicle check - other than it's probably a visual when [...]

If you get into each dealer’s website, they have specials in the service area and a “value service oil change” for a 6 cilinder is $99. It includes a multipoint inspection.

[tatoweb]

Originally Posted by thenew3

$2200 is a lot more than just an oil service. But most owners don't know much about cars and that's how dealers (and some independent shops) make $.

My local dealer charges $250 for a normal oil change. They used to have a "Value service" menu pre-pandemic that had a $99 oil change. If you compare the description of the two, the only difference between the normal oil change and the value oil change is that the value oil change doesn't include a "vehicle check" But in reality, the techs doing the work always do the vehicle check regardless of which oil change you paid for.

BMW sells a pre-paid 3 year unlimited oil change package, used to be $199 but they raised it to $225 a few months ago. Unfortunately I don't think you qualify yet. The vehicle has to be 6 years old or has 60k miles on it to buy this package.

If you plan to keep the car long term, you can see if the dealer has a oil change package you can purchase. Mine sold a "Lifetime" oil change package for $600. Up to 2 oil changes per year for as long as you own the car.

That “value service” is still available for the $99. I just checked a few dealers’ websites in my area.

[Jerry333]

If you don't have the 'knowledge' for cars or don't have a clue about the process of performing these maintenance, then likely you will pay more to dealership eventually.

For me, replacing cabin/engine air filter, oil/filter change or even spark plugs, are just easy and simple DIYs. Not trying to say that i will do those by myself every time ... but at lease, find some good independent shop.

I am also in Bay Area, oil change only cost me around $100 so I don't have to do it on my own.

[crackerjack15]

I don't understand why you wouldn't educate yourself on every aspect of life. I try not to make any decisions without researching first, but obviously sometimes time is a factor and you just go with it.

So you managed to get enough education or put yourself in the position to afford nice things, means your somewhat smart, but then still make irrational choices. A simple Google search would tell you how much filters cost, etc

I would never go the stealer if at all possible once outside free maintenance or warranty. You might as well go in naked, because you already know your getting raped.