OT. When exactly can we start hanging murders!

Spoonhead · 03-03-2015, 05:44 PM

It's a very emotive subject. I'm sure that the public at large are overall in favour of the death penalty. But evidence from the States would suggest that the victims family get little release from the sense of loss, guilt, anger etc. even after the killer is executed.

Justice may be seen to have been served, but it's not necessarily the answer to how families deal with their grief.

It's difficult not to cherry pick evidence on the net, but clearly there has been a number of studies.

http://www.rachelkingbooks.com/artic...s,king_895.pdf

....,,,,..,,.. · 03-03-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonhead

It's a very emotive subject. I'm sure that the public at large are overall in favour of the death penalty. But evidence from the States would suggest that the victims family get little release from the sense of loss, guilt, anger etc. even after the killer is executed.

Justice may be seen to have been served, but it's not necessarily the answer to how families deal with their grief.

It's difficult not to cherry pick evidence on the net, but clearly there has been a number of studies.

http://www.rachelkingbooks.com/artic...s,king_895.pdf

I personally think that the whole bit about victims and punsishment for the perpetrator is not the point.

The victims family etc, do not unfortunately depend on the sentence, they are perpetually locked in to the crime.

This argument does not help the punishment side of things, as there is never ever emotional or psychologicalresolution of the crime.

The punishment is a punishment, it's nothing to do with victim nor is it a warning to others, it's a punishment pure and simple.

Lux700 · 03-04-2015, 04:47 AM

There are those in society, who, like us on this forum happily go about their business and live their lives in a civilised and respectful manner, and there are those who don't! Those who don't are the ones who will always cause the problems, and it is these people for whom rules and laws are generally written. There is now a law for virtually any transgression you can think of!

There are sections of society who have virtually no appreciation, concept, or understanding of current affairs or indeed anything topical. They know right from wrong and many will be aware of the consequences of their actions, but their world is generally lived in a small bubble, ignorant to how the rest of us operate.

Criminal offences are punishable, those who are caught are put into the judicial system and so the process begins... have they committed crime before? What was their last punishment? What to do with them now? By the time someone gets caught it is usual that they have already committed numerous crimes that they have got away with! They are usually so ill informed that they only ever get to hear about the consequences of their action by first hand experience (when they first get caught), or through the grapevine (what happened to a mate, or a bloke down the pub).

I used to deal with a lot of the crime in SE London that you'd hear on the radio news in the morning whilst getting ready for work, like... 'a youth stabbed and in a critical condition', or... 'nighttime prowler burglar violently attacks elderly occupant'. I used to know what I was going to be doing those days before actually arriving in the office! Anyway, I found that the massive common denominator to the suspects of these crimes is that they just had virtually no knowledge of how the rest of the world operates. They didn't listen to the news; they didn't watch the news on TV; they didn't buy newspapers, they only ever got to hear about what was what through word of mouth! They have no idea that so many serious offenders now get caught - they honestly think they can commit crime and never get caught! It's only when they are sat in an interview room with their legal rep that they have any idea what might be in store for them. I've often felt like banging my head against a wall.

I've often thought that, if the mass majority of the people that I'd dealt with were more informed, there would have been a good chance that they may have considered their actions?! How can deterence be appreciated by them if they are not fully aware of the consequences / punishment? I think that liberalism has been allowed to soften the system far too much - the drum needs to be beaten harder to send out our message of disapproval to those who have no respect for other people.

Sorry, I got carried away...

MarkG_M5Comp · 03-04-2015, 05:58 AM

Now there's a different perspective - and a worrying thought too!

So what's the answer, free Sunday Times for them all?

Pablo68 · 03-04-2015, 12:11 PM

..And there are also those who just feel that rules are for other people.

03-03-2015, 05:44 PM	#45
Spoonhead Captain 363 Rep 912 Posts Drives: X3M Competition Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: not close enough to Old Trafford iTrader: (0)	It's a very emotive subject. I'm sure that the public at large are overall in favour of the death penalty. But evidence from the States would suggest that the victims family get little release from the sense of loss, guilt, anger etc. even after the killer is executed. Justice may be seen to have been served, but it's not necessarily the answer to how families deal with their grief. It's difficult not to cherry pick evidence on the net, but clearly there has been a number of studies. http://www.rachelkingbooks.com/artic...s,king_895.pdf __________________ Current Black Sapphire X3M Comp LCI Gone: X3 M40i BM3 / 330d M Sport PPK / 320 Efficient Dynamics / 123d MSport (Superchipped). Last edited by Spoonhead; 03-03-2015 at 05:49 PM..
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03-04-2015, 04:47 AM	#47
Lux700 Captain 552 Rep 980 Posts Drives: X3 M40d - Black Sapphire Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: The forest of Epping iTrader: (0)	There are those in society, who, like us on this forum happily go about their business and live their lives in a civilised and respectful manner, and there are those who don't! Those who don't are the ones who will always cause the problems, and it is these people for whom rules and laws are generally written. There is now a law for virtually any transgression you can think of! There are sections of society who have virtually no appreciation, concept, or understanding of current affairs or indeed anything topical. They know right from wrong and many will be aware of the consequences of their actions, but their world is generally lived in a small bubble, ignorant to how the rest of us operate. Criminal offences are punishable, those who are caught are put into the judicial system and so the process begins... have they committed crime before? What was their last punishment? What to do with them now? By the time someone gets caught it is usual that they have already committed numerous crimes that they have got away with! They are usually so ill informed that they only ever get to hear about the consequences of their action by first hand experience (when they first get caught), or through the grapevine (what happened to a mate, or a bloke down the pub). I used to deal with a lot of the crime in SE London that you'd hear on the radio news in the morning whilst getting ready for work, like... 'a youth stabbed and in a critical condition', or... 'nighttime prowler burglar violently attacks elderly occupant'. I used to know what I was going to be doing those days before actually arriving in the office! Anyway, I found that the massive common denominator to the suspects of these crimes is that they just had virtually no knowledge of how the rest of the world operates. They didn't listen to the news; they didn't watch the news on TV; they didn't buy newspapers, they only ever got to hear about what was what through word of mouth! They have no idea that so many serious offenders now get caught - they honestly think they can commit crime and never get caught! It's only when they are sat in an interview room with their legal rep that they have any idea what might be in store for them. I've often felt like banging my head against a wall. I've often thought that, if the mass majority of the people that I'd dealt with were more informed, there would have been a good chance that they may have considered their actions?! How can deterence be appreciated by them if they are not fully aware of the consequences / punishment? I think that liberalism has been allowed to soften the system far too much - the drum needs to be beaten harder to send out our message of disapproval to those who have no respect for other people. Sorry, I got carried away...
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03-04-2015, 05:58 AM	#48
MarkG_M5Comp Supreme Being 1806 Rep 5,425 Posts Drives: M5 Comp Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK iTrader: (0)	Now there's a different perspective - and a worrying thought too! So what's the answer, free Sunday Times for them all? __________________ Current: F90 M5 Competition Gone: F80 M3 Competition Pack / M135i / F15 X5 M50d / Saab 9-5 Aero HOT / F30 335d xDrive M Sport / E92 LCI 320d M Sport / E46 320d M Sport Touring / E46 318i Touring
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03-04-2015, 12:11 PM	#49
Pablo68 Left the building 185 Rep 1,608 Posts Drives: Not a diesel. Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Petrol Heaven iTrader: (0)	..And there are also those who just feel that rules are for other people.
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