[AlexFL]

Teslas are ugly, soulless cars. I blame Elon for killing the willingness in many ICE enthusiasts to switch to EVs. Even worse, given Tesla’s undeniable success, many mainstream manufacturers started copying Tesla’s sterile, minimalist, pragmatic design and creating an army of ugly, soulless EV SUVs with huge center console iPads and cheap plasticy interiors. The (enthusiast’s) future looks bleak.

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by Lexura

I have no problem with Elon or Tesla but I have an issue with fanboys. When I had my F80, they were often times buzzing by me acting stupid wanting to show the world the superiority of their model 3 over the M3. But now that I have my M4 Xdrive, I can't wait to fucking embarrass these fanboys.
BTW, I can vouch for BGM-M3Comp that he is an M3 owner and I think his is manual 🤓.

No way it’s a manual or even M3

[Lexura]

Originally Posted by MTM3

No way it's a manual or even M3

I don't know him personally but my sent inbox says that we messaged directly. He was new then and was asking on how to track our orders. Anyways, I might be mistaken. Go on then. 👍🏽

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Teslas are ugly, soulless cars. I blame Elon for killing the willingness in many ICE enthusiasts to switch to EVs. Even worse, given Tesla’s undeniable success, many mainstream manufacturers started copying Tesla’s sterile, minimalist, pragmatic design and creating an army of ugly, soulless EV SUVs with huge center console iPads and cheap plasticy interiors. The (enthusiast’s) future looks bleak.

I was actually looking at ordering a Model 3 Performance but once you actually go to the forums and dig into these cars, the less there is to like (I won't get into the build quality because everyone already knows these cars have the worst build quality in the history of automobiles). They are missing a lot of features that even economy cars have. There's no blind spot assist, no android auto/carplay, satellite radio, no radar sensors (they used to have them but removed for cost cutting), no ambient lighting, no adaptive headlights, no HUD, no passenger lumbar support, homelink removed, etc. Now some of these features you may think you can live without but over time they start picking at you and if you are an audiophile you have to resort to putting your music on USB but it's a disaster as you don't get album artwork and it doesn't support playlists. It's the most rudimentary audio interface in the industry. If you didn't know better you would think Elon hates music in a car as it's like they went out of their way to make it extremely difficult for people that love music. Sure you can stream Spotify but that sounds like shit.

Need to open the glove box? No physical handle, it's buried in the screen. Need to turn on your wipers? No stalk. It's buried in the screen and try fiddling with a screen when it's pouring rain and you can barely see ahead of you as the wipers in auto often have a mind of their own and some owners consider them borderline dangerous. If you go to the forums it's basically all complaints about features not working properly or issues with various software versions. Also while these cars are fast they are only truly fast when fully charged and start getting slower and slower.

I feel the reason a lot of owners claim they love their Tesla's has more to do with the fact that they are driving an EV for political and maybe personal reasons. The ownership experience is easily the worst in the industry. You just have to look at Hyunda and Kia's latest EV's to know that legacy automakers have already surpassed Teslas in daily usability and quality.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Lexura

I don't know him personally but my sent inbox says that we messaged directly. He was new then and was asking on how to track our orders. Anyways, I might be mistaken. Go on then. 👍🏽

Yeah that was me. I finally got my car November 17 to be exact. Some people usually default to false accusations when they’re getting crushed in discussions on forums. So they default saying he doesn’t own this car, he won’t get that car, he’s a fanboy blah blah. I guess the bmw stereotype is true.

I have no issue showing you via pm my cars. My c7z as well. Even custom pics for “proof” lmao.


Since people think it’s so hard to get an m3 lol.

[Lexura]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Yeah that was me. I finally got my car November 17 to be exact. Some people usually default to false accusations when they’re getting crushed in discussions on forums. So they default saying he doesn’t own this car, he won’t get that car, he’s a fanboy blah blah. I guess the bmw stereotype is true.

I have no issue showing you via pm my cars. My c7z as well. Even custom pics for “proof” lmao.


Since people think it’s so hard to get an m3 lol.

Yes, this is a Tesla thread and I am not hater. I am open to all things that improve our lives. That being said I love the BMW brand better and I think the legacy automakers will catch up. This is because I am seeing Elon as a stubborn "my way or the highway" kind of guy trying to move us all in his direction but the truth is the autoworld is very diverse. Also, within the EV world Rimac and Lucid has equaled if not surpassed Tesla in more ways than one.
Enjoy your M3 bro. No need to PM me. I believe you.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Lexura

Yes, this is a Tesla thread and I am not hater. I am open to all things that improve our lives. That being said I love the BMW brand better and I think the legacy automakers will catch up. This is because I am seeing Elon as a stubborn "my way or the highway" kind of guy trying to move us all in his direction but the truth is the autoworld is very diverse. Also, within the EV world Rimac and Lucid has equaled if not surpassed Tesla in more ways than one.
Enjoy your M3 bro. No need to PM me. I believe you.

In 10 years or so there will be many car makers heavily competing with Tesla. Right now Tesla has zero competition . None. Not for the value, the range and the performance. Styling is subjective as not many think it looks good. I think they look appropriate for what it is. Like I couldn’t get a mache. That looks terrible. But a model y, which is its direct competitor has better range, faster and cheaper with a better network. And I happen to think the model y looks better.

I’m not a brand loyalist. To me that’s boring. I like many cars that’s why I currently own 3 different brand cars. Ford, Chevy and bmw.

Next year when I get my Tesla and my c8z supercar, will only broaden the brands I own.

Im very unbiased when it comes to cars. I don’t fall into the, “whatever car I currently own is the BEST car there is”, attitude.

I see lots of that here lol

[Lexura]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

In 10 years or so there will be many car makers heavily competing with Tesla. Right now Tesla has zero competition . None. Not for the value, the range and the performance. Styling is subjective as not many think it looks good. I think they look appropriate for what it is. Like I couldn't get a mache. That looks terrible. But a model y, which is its direct competitor has better range, faster and cheaper with a better network. And I happen to think the model y looks better.

I'm not a brand loyalist. To me that's boring. I like many cars that's why I currently own 3 different brand cars. Ford, Chevy and bmw.

Next year when I get my Tesla and my c8z supercar, will only broaden the brands I own.

Im very unbiased when it comes to cars. I don't fall into the, "whatever car I currently own is the BEST car there is", attitude.

I see lots of that here lol

Value, range and performance, yes for sure. But ordinary peeps are also looking or blind spot detectors, a good sound system, quality of interior/exterior and other things which I am sure Tesla is looking at to add/improve on their cars. If Tesla insists on a bare bones very pragmatic one iPad in the middle approach, that will get old. One thing BMW is very good is listening to what the market is dictating. And I think Tesla is rigid at that, given their exterior and interior designs have been stuck in the basic form.
But yes, value, range and performance are very important parameters where Tesla has no peer at the moment but other legacy and non legacy brands are coming hard at them.
And also, I am not a brand whore like you as evidenced by the cars in my garage.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I’m not a brand loyalist. To me that’s boring. I like many cars that’s why I currently own 3 different brand cars. Ford, Chevy and bmw.

Next year when I get my Tesla and my c8z supercar, will only broaden the brands I own.

Im very unbiased when it comes to cars. I don’t fall into the, “whatever car I currently own is the BEST car there is”, attitude.

I see lots of that here lol

Nor do I. Wife drives an Outback, soon to be Bronco Outer Banks. I have $1000 down on a GR Corolla and have owned nearly ever brand over the decades. I'm no BMW fanboy that's for sure. Doesn't change the fact that Tesla's really aren't very good vehicles.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Nor do I. Wife drives an Outback, soon to be Bronco Outer Banks. I have $1000 down on a GR Corolla and have owned nearly ever brand over the decades. I'm no BMW fanboy that's for sure. Doesn't change the fact that Tesla's really aren't very good vehicles.

I’m not saying Tesla is the best brand period. I’m saying they’re the best at EV right now. Like if I want a luxury car specifically I’d get a mercedes. If I wanted a race car for the street that’s inexpensive I’d get a corvette. If I wanted a heavy brute highway missile they can fit all my friends I’d get a hellcat charger. Every car has its purpose.

Tesla only sells ev obviously so when people are looking for an ev, that’s their preferred choice. That is why they have done so well in sales. People want them. They’re a relatively new company so they are still going through the teething stage, yet they’re still successful.

As the years go by and other car makers are playing catch-up, if people read what Elon has in store, they’ll know Tesla is still going to be a premier choice when it comes to ev.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I’m not saying Tesla is the best brand period. I’m saying they’re the best at EV right now. Like if I want a luxury car specifically I’d get a mercedes. If I wanted a race car for the street that’s inexpensive I’d get a corvette. If I wanted a heavy brute highway missile they can fit all my friends I’d get a hellcat charger. Every car has its purpose.

Tesla only sells ev obviously so when people are looking for an ev, that’s their preferred choice. That is why they have done so well in sales. People want them. They’re a relatively new company so they are still going through the teething stage, yet they’re still successful.

As the years go by and other car makers are playing catch-up, if people read what Elon has in store, they’ll know Tesla is still going to be a premier choice when it comes to ev.

I want Apple to jump in this game. If they ever build a car, they will probably crush everyone. I think they are worth more than 5-6 of the biggest car companies combined!! Come on Mark!!!!! Lol

[P1]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I’m not saying Tesla is the best brand period. I’m saying they’re the best at EV right now. Like if I want a luxury car specifically I’d get a mercedes. If I wanted a race car for the street that’s inexpensive I’d get a corvette. If I wanted a heavy brute highway missile they can fit all my friends I’d get a hellcat charger. Every car has its purpose.

Tesla only sells ev obviously so when people are looking for an ev, that’s their preferred choice. That is why they have done so well in sales. People want them. They’re a relatively new company so they are still going through the teething stage, yet they’re still successful.

As the years go by and other car makers are playing catch-up, if people read what Elon has in store, they’ll know Tesla is still going to be a premier choice when it comes to ev.

After all your childish rants in this thread, you're doing nothing but perpetuation that awful, tiring Tesla fanboy stereotype.

If you enjoy driving an iPad on four wheels, that's fine. But don't go all CrossFit on us about it.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I want Apple to jump in this game. If they ever build a car, they will probably crush everyone. I think they are worth more than 5-6 of the biggest car companies combined!! Come on Mark!!!!! Lol

They could actually. But did you watch the video on Elon buying out Mercedes? Thought that was interesting lol

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by P1

But don't go all CrossFit on us about it.

LOL on that.

Lots of Model 3 bashing here, for good reason. But I'll suggest that the Model S is actually a good driving car, and shows that Tesla/Elon can design an enthusiast's car if they/he want(s) to. However, it still has many of the same issues as the 3, minimalistic cheap material interior, a minimum of buttons and dials that many of us prefer, and the S is significantly more expensive. The 3 was designed and made to fit a price point, and it shows.

To go slightly OT here: has anyone else noticed that most Teslas, regardless of the model, are dirty? I mean, they're just appliances, like a dishwasher, and like a dishwasher don't require much maintenance and so are often neglected. To me, a mark of an enthusiast is generally someone who also takes care of their vehicle and keeps it reasonably clean. Heck, some are even shiny!

I had a former boss once ask me how I keep my car so clean. I answered, "I wash it".

Duh.

[F80_Kbo]

Giving my 0.02$ after owning a performance model 3 for 3 years (recently sold).

This car cannot be beat for a daily commuter. Cost of ownership was nearly zero as I had a charger at work. The ability to have all the nanny’s in stop and go commuter traffic was fantastic for the morning office calls when you are running late. Set the autopilot and forget. The 15” touchscreen was fantastic and the most responsive screen I’ve used in a car to date. In the 50k plus miles driven I had not one single issue with my car. Not a one.

So why did I see such a good car then? Well for me the model 3 straight line acceleration was addictive but lifeless once you finished merging. I grew up loving the sound and smell of a carbureted v8 and obviously the Tesla will never have this (unless you are richrebuilds). Maybe I am holding on to ICE just a little bit longer in fear of the impending Jetson society…

With all that said this doesn’t mean I’ll never own one again. For me the ideal setup would be a tesla for a commuter car and my future f80.

[F80_Kbo]

Also I would mention that my Tesla was the "cleanest" car I have owned. It was probably due to the additional time I had from not trying to figure out the best exhaust set up.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by AyyyitsKbo

Also I would mention that my Tesla was the "cleanest" car I have owned. It was probably due to the additional time I had from not trying to figure out the best exhaust set up.

Nice!!!

I’m debating on the 3 or the Y. Im thinking better bang for buck to go with a model 3 performance. My friend has one. Untouchable from 0-90 or so. We beat GTR’s, and random luxury performance cars.

It’s incredible. People don’t see the light but they will soon. Either willingly or by force

[F80_Kbo]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Nice!!!

I’m debating on the 3 or the Y. Im thinking better bang for buck to go with a model 3 performance. My friend has one. Untouchable from 0-90 or so. We beat GTR’s, and random luxury performance cars.

It’s incredible. People don’t see the light but they will soon. Either willingly or by force

So I have spent my time in both. The model Y to be is one of the most ugly cars you can buy. Proportions on the 3 seem right. The Y for me was a bad case of photoshop. I couldn't get past the way Tesla raised the seats in the front.

Now if you need the space for whatever reason model Y all day. The 3 will be your best bang for your buck. You may also want to consider the electric vehicle tax credit if that ever pans out. Performance 3 would not qualify but the Y would in its current state

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by AyyyitsKbo

So I have spent my time in both. The model Y to be is one of the most ugly cars you can buy. Proportions on the 3 seem right. The Y for me was a bad case of photoshop. I couldn't get past the way Tesla raised the seats in the front.

Now if you need the space for whatever reason model Y all day. The 3 will be your best bang for your buck. You may also want to consider the electric vehicle tax credit if that ever pans out. Performance 3 would not qualify but the Y would in its current state

I have seat time in both. I like the elevated seating position in the Y. I also like how it looks honestly. The 3 would be a better bang for buck.

I don’t care for tax credits, that’s not why I want an ev. I want a Tesla for its simplicity and sheer straight line performance for daily commuting.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

In 10 years or so there will be many car makers heavily competing with Tesla. Right now Tesla has zero competition . None. Not for the value, the range and the performance. Styling is subjective as not many think it looks good. I think they look appropriate for what it is. Like I couldn’t get a mache. That looks terrible. But a model y, which is its direct competitor has better range, faster and cheaper with a better network. And I happen to think the model y looks better.

I’m not a brand loyalist. To me that’s boring. I like many cars that’s why I currently own 3 different brand cars. Ford, Chevy and bmw.

Next year when I get my Tesla and my c8z supercar, will only broaden the brands I own.

Im very unbiased when it comes to cars. I don’t fall into the, “whatever car I currently own is the BEST car there is”, attitude.

I see lots of that here lol

What many people here don't appreciate is that software and electronics are the most important elements of any car going forward. Tesla just does these better than the rest of the industry. Everyone else pretty much outsources this stuff and it shows. BMW barely even designs electronics, their PCBAs are almost all designed by Bosch, Continental, Siemens, etc. Their DME firmware is written by the same vendors. Their infotainment hardware was designed by Harman until iDrive 7, not sure who makes it now. Anyway, because they aren't vertically integrated they are going to end up with the same inferior results with longer development time.

I dislike a lot about Tesla, but they do all their own stuff and it's the best way to do it if you can afford to keep the engineering teams employed. Close integration is more and more key, and the pace they can develop at shows the advantages.

Pull PCBAs out of a G series BMW and compare to a new Model 3. The BMW is using mediocre SoCs, stale automotive MCUs, and PCB design techniques to match. The system / software architecture outside of the infotainment system is also very slow to evolve. One day, Tesla will figure out how to do the rest of the stuff they are bad at now. I think this is a much easier task than asking conventional automakers to become effective software and electronics companies.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by chris719

What many people here don't appreciate is that software and electronics are the most important elements of any car going forward. Tesla just does these better than the rest of the industry. Everyone else pretty much outsources this stuff and it shows. BMW barely even designs electronics, their PCBAs are almost all designed by Bosch, Continental, Siemens, etc. Their DME firmware is written by the same vendors. Their infotainment hardware was designed by Harman until iDrive 7, not sure who makes it now. Anyway, because they aren't vertically integrated they are going to end up with the same inferior results with longer development time.

I dislike a lot about Tesla, but they do all their own stuff and it's the best way to do it if you can afford to keep the engineering teams employed. Close integration is more and more key, and the pace they can develop at shows the advantages.

Pull PCBAs out of a G series BMW and compare to a new Model 3. The BMW is using mediocre SoCs, stale automotive MCUs, and PCB design techniques to match. The system / software architecture outside of the infotainment system is also very slow to evolve. One day, Tesla will figure out how to do the rest of the stuff they are bad at now. I think this is a much easier task than asking conventional automakers to become effective software and electronics companies.

This is an interesting and compelling point, and I agree but only to some extent. It's pretty clear that Tesla has benefited from a clean-slate approach, and its products reflect a focus on software and hardware engineering... whereas BMW products reflect more of a focus (certainly from a traditional perspective) on dynamics and refinement. But although they're relatively young, Tesla is not really an up-and-comer anymore. It was founded in 2003, and currently outsells Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes. They have clearly tapped into a market niche, that other automakers are reacting to in various ways. As they continue to mature, yes, they may get better at some things like quality control that people give them grief for today. But many auto enthusiasts (including me) find their products--which is applicable to most EVs in general--lacking the soul of a good ICE car. I also hate their interiors and find their overall design language pretty boring and even dated. But these aren't things that they are necessarily "bad" at; some people like that design language, and are happy with an automotive appliance that feels like an iPhone on wheels. Competition is a good thing. Alternatives for customers is a good thing.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chris719

What many people here don't appreciate is that software and electronics are the most important elements of any car going forward. Tesla just does these better than the rest of the industry. Everyone else pretty much outsources this stuff and it shows. BMW barely even designs electronics, their PCBAs are almost all designed by Bosch, Continental, Siemens, etc. Their DME firmware is written by the same vendors. Their infotainment hardware was designed by Harman until iDrive 7, not sure who makes it now. Anyway, because they aren't vertically integrated they are going to end up with the same inferior results with longer development time.

I dislike a lot about Tesla, but they do all their own stuff and it's the best way to do it if you can afford to keep the engineering teams employed. Close integration is more and more key, and the pace they can develop at shows the advantages.

Pull PCBAs out of a G series BMW and compare to a new Model 3. The BMW is using mediocre SoCs, stale automotive MCUs, and PCB design techniques to match. The system / software architecture outside of the infotainment system is also very slow to evolve. One day, Tesla will figure out how to do the rest of the stuff they are bad at now. I think this is a much easier task than asking conventional automakers to become effective software and electronics companies.

The thing is that i don't think tesla is limited in what they can do from an electronics/software point of view.

I believe their approach to their cars are what the car is in itself. That is a "simple" EV that works in today's world.

This is why i said everyone is playing catchup with tesla as tesla is still 10 years ahead of everyone. This is why cars like the mach-e which is supposed to be a "threat" to tesla, is not anything like that at all unless someone would solely pick a mach-e over a tesla just because of their hatred for the tesla brand. Not even going through the actual logistics of it. Not knowing (or actually indirectly knowing) a tesla model y would be a better purchase over a mach-e. Some people hate so much they would get an inferior EV just to spite tesla. And the many comments here, on social media, or other car forums are proof of that. Usually this happens, when they know it's rather good. They just would never want to admit it. Basic psychology.

I believe moving foward, tesla would alter the way a non typical EV user would want to use their controls and functions in a car. For example i don't agree with that i have to go into the screen to turn on the wipers. To me, that's a bit extreme. But again that is the approach to how they want to design the car.

The way it functions overall is pretty good although i noticed in my friends car, during really hot summer days, the screen would reboot itself. Or sometimes shut off completely, then you have to stop, "turn the car off", then turn it back on and it'll come back to life. Supposedly OTA updates correct this but it's a small flaw to live with.

As far as EV functionality, tesla is like i said 10 years ahead. Once they improve the onboard infotainment, and keep improving their build quality, will only further the success of the brand.

There's no comp right now for them, and not for the near future. I say it'll take about 10 years or so for other car makers to get on board before they can really put a dent in tesla sales when it comes to full on EV's.