M3/4 vs online haters

Damasconian · 05-31-2015, 03:30 AM

Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

This is my first M car so maybe I'm new to this phenomenon. All I know is when I was driving my last car, I had nothing but respect for not just other M cars, but most sporty cars around. I admired people in nice cars, didn't resent them.

I wasn't a forum guy until I placed my order last spring and spent most of time reading magazines, not blogs, to get my car fix. Now that I have been spending a decent amount of time here, Jalopnik, auto blog & few other online outlets I am shocked at how many people hate the M brand and BMW drivers as a whole. So much of what I read is the same stuff: If it's not the E36 it's not a real M car. If you didn't buy a manual or track your car weekly you're a poseur. BMW owners bought their cars for image, not driving enjoyment. Piped in sound? You might as well be driving a minivan.

Now that I've had my car for 6 months, Im pretty sure most of this is found online. People in person are awesome and seem to appreciate these cars a great deal. I just can't wrap my head around some of the comments I read, especially on certain sites (Jalopnik is the absolute worst). I'm my attempts to defend these cars I realize I've lowered myself to a level I'm embarrassed of. I'm in my 30's and found myself writing things to people I wouldn't have written in my teens. It's easy to say "well don't read them" but like you people I love cars, all of them. If it's not sports or politics I'm reading about, it's cars. I default to being an inclusive person and I'm a little shocked at how exclusive some people can be.

Sorry for the rant. Ill sort it out and do my best to filter out the jackasses from the people that appreciate a nice car. Whether that car is a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Ford.

But not a Chevrolet, those people suck. ��

jwilliams · 05-31-2015, 04:10 AM

Give it 10-15 years when they can afford and F8x and they will start with "if its not an F8x its not an M car" again lol. Leave them to it. You'll find the guys that write junk are desperate to own one but can't (as harsh as that sounds)

Vectors2final · 05-31-2015, 04:20 AM

BLUF:

People are stupid and obtuse. People don't know what they're talking about, at least a great deal of the time. We live in a knee jerk society where we take what we hear from others as law, and we don't do real research. It's natural for people to show some sort of resentment against a car(s) that some might not otherwise be able to afford in not all, but many cases. People are afraid of change. People are trolls. People are Naive. We live in a world where actions of a few represent the masses.

Only you and fellow owners know how great your car is, and those who have had favorable experiences do as well. The only thing you can do is just take all that with a grain of salt, and just accept the fact that people just love to talk out of their ass on the internet. It is becoming the new national pastime.

AIRPOWER · 05-31-2015, 04:41 AM

There is a saying......don't wrestle with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and kill you with experience.

I agree with you that sometimes on this forum/on-line in general it is VERY HARD to keep ones traction on the high road.

Nice post

erind · 05-31-2015, 05:52 AM

I don't even bother to argue with those kind of people. In my experience most people will hate what they cannot afford. Sometimes when someone says. "Meh the new M3 sucks" and then I see what they drive.

gthal · 05-31-2015, 06:28 AM

I think it is the anonymity of the online experience... people are tough guys online. They will act in a way online that they wouldn't in real life for fear of a punch in the head

People also like to stir up trouble ("trolls") just because they can.

It's the beauty of an anonymous experience and no barrier to entry so less savoury folks are everywhere.

dmk08 · 05-31-2015, 08:27 AM

All i know is whenever I go to a local event my F80 gets tons of positive attention. Including the exhaust note.

shortseller · 05-31-2015, 08:27 AM

The "smallness" I sometimes experience either online or on the road tends to quickly go away every time I get in my car and start her up as I become overtaken by a big smile on my face.

No worries OP!

fortressmaximus · 05-31-2015, 08:30 AM

If there weren't haters, then you should start to worry about the M brand.

myzmak · 05-31-2015, 08:54 AM

Gthal said it well.....

The internet is a place that is so far from it, it makes reality TV look like everyday life. people lie, people make up back stories, people bully, people are dicks and people generally do things they could not try to get away with in real life.

A lot of it is driven by jealousy, a lot by boredom (which accompanies jealousy) and a lot by stupidity (which goes with both)

Add to that the historic resentment of yuppie life/culture from the days when BMWs mean DINK families and popped collars (ok, some things never change) and, yeah, a place like this will be full of poop.

The key, of course, is to find the good folks and have fun with all this. Another poster said 'don't wrestle with an idiot' - great advice - but I sure as hell can and will use them for my enjoymnet while I'm here having genuine conversations with the genuine people here.

minn19 · 05-31-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthal

I think it is the anonymity of the online experience... people are tough guys online. They will act in a way online that they wouldn't in real life for fear of a punch in the head

People also like to stir up trouble ("trolls") just because they can.

It's the beauty of an anonymous experience and no barrier to entry so less savoury folks are everywhere.

^This, a lot of people are real tough guys behind a computer screen and keyboard. I think this shows some things about their true character. When I started the forums a few years ago, I try to stick to two rules I do in my personal life. Don't get into back and forth name calling and don't say anything you wouldn't say to their face. I've had my bad days, but for the most part I believe I've stuck to those two rules pretty well and have had a good experience here for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk08

All i know is whenever I go to a local event my F80 gets tons of positive attention. Including the exhaust note.

^Also this. I've been to a couple events that have included older BMWs in general and other makes. Guys and gals from E9X generation M3s, Vettes, Porsches etc. Nothing but mutual car respect and good times talking about the different cars.

CanAutM3 · 05-31-2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damasconian

If it's not the E36 it's not a real M car.

That is probably the funniest quote because in reality, the US E36 M3 actually wasn't a true ///M car as it didn't have an actual ///M engine

.

///M-er-gized · 05-31-2015, 10:17 AM

Many of these folks will never be in financial position to own a stripped down 320i let alone an M3 or M4.

/// M sa · 05-31-2015, 10:43 AM

F them all don't pay attention to them... They are jealous and that's it. This includes the morons and trolls on this forum that are in love with v8 cars and come in here blindly hating on a car they have never driven. It's called ignorance and the f them all goes for the same people on this forum that constantly put the car down.

ChrisJay · 05-31-2015, 11:32 AM

Think of it this way; if we all loved the same car there would be way too many of that same car on the road making it nothing special. I am glad there are so many flavors out there. I do however wish some people would learn to express themselves a bit better instead of being pure assholes.

M4TW · 05-31-2015, 11:38 AM

Give people an opportunity to blog about shit annonymously and without accountability and this is what happens. I wouldn't change a thing though even though early on in the game attention starved individuals discovered that their fragile egos could be bolstered by the attention shit disturbing could attract. Meanwhile, I take comfort when a proposition like the M3/4 stands up well to both poignant criticism and a barrage of nonsense.

I'm glad that I own a relevant car.

AIRPOWER · 05-31-2015, 12:06 PM

Like almost all previous posters have stated......assholes will be assholes.

I look at it this way; Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.

///M Villain · 05-31-2015, 12:10 PM

The internet is just a big masquerade of people that have the potential to be positive or negative. There are people that hide their true nature all day long around those who can see them and once they connect to the world wide web, they become someone else. We call them trolls and about 90% of them are out to spread hate. Its not just some online forums, its all of them; from games I've played to tech communities like XDA, people love to degrade, piss off and get laughs off of others for pure entertainment. Personally these types of people help me keep myself grounded and fair minded about how I conduct who I am in the digital world.

FTS · 05-31-2015, 12:26 PM

I think the proliferation of Internet forums on multitude of topics is teaching all societies across the globe about tolerance. People come from different backgrounds and experiences, and wear lenses that are shaped based on those factors, hence there will be differing views.

I know I should not post this and it is not a popular view, but we also need to look in our own reflection in the mirror too. I have hard time understanding or relating to most in our forum on why they buy M cars. Majority do not even get within a mile of performance driving, track, autox, sanctioned racing, etc. What's wrong with the 328, 335 or 340, etc. Is it possible they buy the F8x for its image? If that is the case, since most are not able to use 80% of the car's performance, is that not the definition of poseur?

Why do people that will never take their cars to an autox or track install $3-10K coilovers, and thinking tuning them means turning couple of knobs?
Why do people have strong opinions on the cost of CCBs, but don't mind spending $5K on exhaust or $10K on brand name wheels?
Why do people have endless discussions on weight, while they don't drive in environments where the weight would actually matter?
Why do people buy an M car and complain about rough ride?
Why do people complain about lack of traction, but continue to put huge spacers in the rear?
Why do people that complain about weight, continue to remove the aluminium struts off the car and replace them with steel ones?
How many people obsess about the minute paint correction issues, while they drive the car on a daily basis through pot-hole ridden, truck-infested roads?
Why do some people take the active sound thingy as a personal insult to their intelligence?
Why so many install M Performance aero components, when they have absolutely no functional purpose? Just for the looks, right?

There are dozen more similar questions like the ones above that I wonder, the answers continue to mystify me. Being judgemental about these does not help, in most cases, I am wrong and I know it. However, we have to accept that there are many people that do project the image of poseur and some of the comments made about us, BMW M drivers, have merit IMO. In short, we are not any different than all those others that criticize the M drivers, and I am as guilty as anyone else.

AIRPOWER · 05-31-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTS

I think the proliferation of Internet forums on multitude of topics is teaching all societies across the globe about tolerance. People come from different backgrounds and experiences, and wear lenses that are shaped based on those factors, hence there will be differing views.

I know I should not post this and it is not a popular view, but we also need to look in our own reflection in the mirror too. I have hard time understanding or relating to most in our forum on why they buy M cars. Majority do not even get within a mile of performance driving, track, autox, sanctioned racing, etc. What's wrong with the 328, 335 or 340, etc. Is it possible they buy the F8x for its image? If that is the case, since most are not able to use 80% of the car's performance, is that not the definition of poseur?

Why do people that will never take their cars to an autox or track install $3-10K coilovers, and thinking tuning them means turning couple of knobs?
Why do people have strong opinions on the cost of CCBs, but don't mind spending $5K on exhaust or $10K on brand name wheels?
Why do people have endless discussions on weight, while they don't drive in environments where the weight would actually matter?
Why do people buy an M car and complain about rough ride?
Why do people complain about lack of traction, but continue to put huge spacers in the rear?
Why do people that complain about weight, continue to remove the aluminium struts off the car and replace them with steel ones?
How many people obsess about the minute paint correction issues, while they drive the car on a daily basis through pot-hole ridden, truck-infested roads?
Why do some people take the active sound thingy as a personal insult to their intelligence?
Why so many install M Performance aero components, when they have absolutely no functional purpose? Just for the looks, right?

There are dozen more similar questions like the ones above that I wonder, the answers continue to mystify me. Being judgemental about these does not help, in most cases, I am wrong and I know it. However, we have to accept that there are many people that do project the image of poseur and some of the comments made about us, BMW M drivers, have merit IMO. In short, we are not any different than all those others that criticize the M drivers, and I am as guilty as anyone else.

Wow.....now i feel like killing myself.........................

Richy Rich · 05-31-2015, 12:53 PM

You can't yell at a retard for drooling.

gearboxtrouble · 05-31-2015, 01:00 PM

I've noticed this on places like Jalopnik too and I think a large part of it is the inability to afford one. This is particularly true around the M3/4 because its gone from being a slightly more expensive 3 series to a 80k+ super coupe. What was once accessible now isn't and that makes people mad.

I do however think that BMW owners are part of the problem. For better or worse we've earned a reputation as more likely to be d-bags than most other brands. I do not think this is completely without cause. Here in Houston, I go to a Wholefoods near where I live for groceries. The parking lot is a unholy cluster and its made worse by people that park on the sides of the central path where there are no designated parking spots. Guess what brand of car most of these idiots drive? That's one example among many but there is a problem. I think part of the issue is that BMW owners are more likely to be young because of BMWs lease rates. Age shouldn't excuse stupidity though and stereotypes usually have some basis in fact.

05-31-2015, 03:30 AM	#1
Damasconian Lieutenant Colonel 742 Rep 1,555 Posts Drives: 2015 M4 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	M3/4 vs online haters Featured on BIMMERPOST.com This is my first M car so maybe I'm new to this phenomenon. All I know is when I was driving my last car, I had nothing but respect for not just other M cars, but most sporty cars around. I admired people in nice cars, didn't resent them. I wasn't a forum guy until I placed my order last spring and spent most of time reading magazines, not blogs, to get my car fix. Now that I have been spending a decent amount of time here, Jalopnik, auto blog & few other online outlets I am shocked at how many people hate the M brand and BMW drivers as a whole. So much of what I read is the same stuff: If it's not the E36 it's not a real M car. If you didn't buy a manual or track your car weekly you're a poseur. BMW owners bought their cars for image, not driving enjoyment. Piped in sound? You might as well be driving a minivan. Now that I've had my car for 6 months, Im pretty sure most of this is found online. People in person are awesome and seem to appreciate these cars a great deal. I just can't wrap my head around some of the comments I read, especially on certain sites (Jalopnik is the absolute worst). I'm my attempts to defend these cars I realize I've lowered myself to a level I'm embarrassed of. I'm in my 30's and found myself writing things to people I wouldn't have written in my teens. It's easy to say "well don't read them" but like you people I love cars, all of them. If it's not sports or politics I'm reading about, it's cars. I default to being an inclusive person and I'm a little shocked at how exclusive some people can be. Sorry for the rant. Ill sort it out and do my best to filter out the jackasses from the people that appreciate a nice car. Whether that car is a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Ford. But not a Chevrolet, those people suck. �� __________________ 2015 M4 6-MT Last edited by Damasconian; 06-01-2015 at 02:34 AM..
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05-31-2015, 04:10 AM	#2
jwilliams Lieutenant 146 Rep 563 Posts Drives: 3 series Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: harlow iTrader: (1)	Give it 10-15 years when they can afford and F8x and they will start with "if its not an F8x its not an M car" again lol. Leave them to it. You'll find the guys that write junk are desperate to own one but can't (as harsh as that sounds)
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05-31-2015, 04:20 AM	#3
Vectors2final Brigadier General 1357 Rep 3,349 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 YMB/SS ZCP Join Date: May 2011 Location: Austin, Tx iTrader: (0)	BLUF: People are stupid and obtuse. People don't know what they're talking about, at least a great deal of the time. We live in a knee jerk society where we take what we hear from others as law, and we don't do real research. It's natural for people to show some sort of resentment against a car(s) that some might not otherwise be able to afford in not all, but many cases. People are afraid of change. People are trolls. People are Naive. We live in a world where actions of a few represent the masses. Only you and fellow owners know how great your car is, and those who have had favorable experiences do as well. The only thing you can do is just take all that with a grain of salt, and just accept the fact that people just love to talk out of their ass on the internet. It is becoming the new national pastime. __________________ 2019 Ruby GT350 - Gen 5 Whipple on corn making 855RWHP. Sold: 2018 F80 Part Deux /DCT /YMB /Full SS /CF Trim /ZCP /ZEC w/Black 666M Sold: 2015 F80 /DCT /YMB /Full SS /CF Trim /ZEC /ZLP /HK /S&TVC- 18''///M
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05-31-2015, 04:41 AM	#4
AIRPOWER Lieutenant Colonel 1683 Rep 1,812 Posts Drives: 2015 6MT YMB M3, 1974 Corvette Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NW Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW M3 [9.67]	There is a saying......don't wrestle with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and kill you with experience. I agree with you that sometimes on this forum/on-line in general it is VERY HARD to keep ones traction on the high road. Nice post __________________ AIRPOWER
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05-31-2015, 05:52 AM	#5
erind Lieutenant 624 Rep 426 Posts Drives: Ftype R, M4 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Belgium/Antwerp iTrader: (0)	I don't even bother to argue with those kind of people. In my experience most people will hate what they cannot afford. Sometimes when someone says. "Meh the new M3 sucks" and then I see what they drive.
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05-31-2015, 06:28 AM	#6
gthal Major General 1904 Rep 5,678 Posts Drives: 2018 340i xDrive Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (2)	I think it is the anonymity of the online experience... people are tough guys online. They will act in a way online that they wouldn't in real life for fear of a punch in the head People also like to stir up trouble ("trolls") just because they can. It's the beauty of an anonymous experience and no barrier to entry so less savoury folks are everywhere. __________________ 2020 X3 M40i \| Black \| Current DD 2020 C8 Corvette \| Z51 \| Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 \| Long Beach Blue \| 6MT 2015 M4 \| Austin Yellow \| DCT 2012 MB C63AMG \| 2011 E92 M3 \| 2010 E92 M3
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05-31-2015, 08:27 AM	#7
dmk08 Gone Fishin’ 7318 Rep 12,125 Posts Drives: Walks Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (19)	All i know is whenever I go to a local event my F80 gets tons of positive attention. Including the exhaust note.
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05-31-2015, 08:27 AM	#8
shortseller Brigadier General 1003 Rep 3,396 Posts Drives: ‘18 ABM F80ZCP/dct Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NOVA iTrader: (0)	The "smallness" I sometimes experience either online or on the road tends to quickly go away every time I get in my car and start her up as I become overtaken by a big smile on my face. No worries OP! __________________
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05-31-2015, 08:30 AM	#9
fortressmaximus Captain 104 Rep 680 Posts Drives: BSM M4 Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	If there weren't haters, then you should start to worry about the M brand.
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05-31-2015, 08:54 AM	#10
myzmak Advocatus Douchebagus. Sex Marxist. 2415 Rep 3,415 Posts Drives: Lucy. Join Date: May 2012 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 F80 M3 [10.00] 2013 MB E350 Wagon [10.00]	Gthal said it well..... The internet is a place that is so far from it, it makes reality TV look like everyday life. people lie, people make up back stories, people bully, people are dicks and people generally do things they could not try to get away with in real life. A lot of it is driven by jealousy, a lot by boredom (which accompanies jealousy) and a lot by stupidity (which goes with both) Add to that the historic resentment of yuppie life/culture from the days when BMWs mean DINK families and popped collars (ok, some things never change) and, yeah, a place like this will be full of poop. The key, of course, is to find the good folks and have fun with all this. Another poster said 'don't wrestle with an idiot' - great advice - but I sure as hell can and will use them for my enjoymnet while I'm here having genuine conversations with the genuine people here. __________________ Drivin' Lucy
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05-31-2015, 10:17 AM	#13
///M-er-gized Captain 687 Rep 663 Posts Drives: 2019 540i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	Many of these folks will never be in financial position to own a stripped down 320i let alone an M3 or M4.
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05-31-2015, 10:43 AM	#14
/// M sa Major 241 Rep 1,418 Posts Drives: F80 MG Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Delmarva iTrader: (0)	F them all don't pay attention to them... They are jealous and that's it. This includes the morons and trolls on this forum that are in love with v8 cars and come in here blindly hating on a car they have never driven. It's called ignorance and the f them all goes for the same people on this forum that constantly put the car down.
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05-31-2015, 11:32 AM	#15
ChrisJay Private 37 Rep 72 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0)	Think of it this way; if we all loved the same car there would be way too many of that same car on the road making it nothing special. I am glad there are so many flavors out there. I do however wish some people would learn to express themselves a bit better instead of being pure assholes.
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05-31-2015, 11:38 AM	#16
M4TW ///M Uber Alles 332 Rep 1,601 Posts Drives: '15 MW M4 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: GSA iTrader: (1)	Give people an opportunity to blog about shit annonymously and without accountability and this is what happens. I wouldn't change a thing though even though early on in the game attention starved individuals discovered that their fragile egos could be bolstered by the attention shit disturbing could attract. Meanwhile, I take comfort when a proposition like the M3/4 stands up well to both poignant criticism and a barrage of nonsense. I'm glad that I own a relevant car.
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05-31-2015, 12:06 PM	#17
AIRPOWER Lieutenant Colonel 1683 Rep 1,812 Posts Drives: 2015 6MT YMB M3, 1974 Corvette Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NW Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW M3 [9.67]	Like almost all previous posters have stated......assholes will be assholes. I look at it this way; Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. __________________ AIRPOWER
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05-31-2015, 12:10 PM	#18
///M Villain Second Lieutenant 91 Rep 258 Posts Drives: Bmw M4 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Atlanta, Ga. iTrader: (1)	The internet is just a big masquerade of people that have the potential to be positive or negative. There are people that hide their true nature all day long around those who can see them and once they connect to the world wide web, they become someone else. We call them trolls and about 90% of them are out to spread hate. Its not just some online forums, its all of them; from games I've played to tech communities like XDA, people love to degrade, piss off and get laughs off of others for pure entertainment. Personally these types of people help me keep myself grounded and fair minded about how I conduct who I am in the digital world. Last edited by ///M Villain; 05-31-2015 at 10:59 PM..
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05-31-2015, 12:26 PM	#19
FTS Enjoying driving 388 Rep 1,169 Posts Drives: 645 Join Date: May 2009 Location: MD iTrader: (0)	I think the proliferation of Internet forums on multitude of topics is teaching all societies across the globe about tolerance. People come from different backgrounds and experiences, and wear lenses that are shaped based on those factors, hence there will be differing views. I know I should not post this and it is not a popular view, but we also need to look in our own reflection in the mirror too. I have hard time understanding or relating to most in our forum on why they buy M cars. Majority do not even get within a mile of performance driving, track, autox, sanctioned racing, etc. What's wrong with the 328, 335 or 340, etc. Is it possible they buy the F8x for its image? If that is the case, since most are not able to use 80% of the car's performance, is that not the definition of poseur? Why do people that will never take their cars to an autox or track install $3-10K coilovers, and thinking tuning them means turning couple of knobs? Why do people have strong opinions on the cost of CCBs, but don't mind spending $5K on exhaust or $10K on brand name wheels? Why do people have endless discussions on weight, while they don't drive in environments where the weight would actually matter? Why do people buy an M car and complain about rough ride? Why do people complain about lack of traction, but continue to put huge spacers in the rear? Why do people that complain about weight, continue to remove the aluminium struts off the car and replace them with steel ones? How many people obsess about the minute paint correction issues, while they drive the car on a daily basis through pot-hole ridden, truck-infested roads? Why do some people take the active sound thingy as a personal insult to their intelligence? Why so many install M Performance aero components, when they have absolutely no functional purpose? Just for the looks, right? There are dozen more similar questions like the ones above that I wonder, the answers continue to mystify me. Being judgemental about these does not help, in most cases, I am wrong and I know it. However, we have to accept that there are many people that do project the image of poseur and some of the comments made about us, BMW M drivers, have merit IMO. In short, we are not any different than all those others that criticize the M drivers, and I am as guilty as anyone else.
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05-31-2015, 12:53 PM	#21
Richy Rich Colonel 3169 Rep 2,135 Posts Drives: F80 \| MKIV Supra \| Aventador S Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	You can't yell at a retard for drooling. __________________ For Sale: 2017 740whp Frozen White M3 \| 5900 Miles [sold] 'GR3MLIN' - Satin Mineral Grey M3 Build Thread
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05-31-2015, 01:00 PM	#22
gearboxtrouble Second Lieutenant 134 Rep 246 Posts Drives: 2015 F82 M4 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Houston TX iTrader: (0)	I've noticed this on places like Jalopnik too and I think a large part of it is the inability to afford one. This is particularly true around the M3/4 because its gone from being a slightly more expensive 3 series to a 80k+ super coupe. What was once accessible now isn't and that makes people mad. I do however think that BMW owners are part of the problem. For better or worse we've earned a reputation as more likely to be d-bags than most other brands. I do not think this is completely without cause. Here in Houston, I go to a Wholefoods near where I live for groceries. The parking lot is a unholy cluster and its made worse by people that park on the sides of the central path where there are no designated parking spots. Guess what brand of car most of these idiots drive? That's one example among many but there is a problem. I think part of the issue is that BMW owners are more likely to be young because of BMWs lease rates. Age shouldn't excuse stupidity though and stereotypes usually have some basis in fact.
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