[pli]

I’ve heard rare cases like this but never thought it would happen to myself…
Long story short, all steps of OTA upgrade went well until the next day I got the message “software upgrade failed”. Now the car won’t start, switch into neutral, or release ebrake.

I figured I should share this experience while waiting for the tow truck.

[Mail4loys]

Thanks pli for the headsup. which version of OTA were you upgrading to? Hope you have enough working space if it needs to be towed to the dealer / service center . keep us posted on the progress

[pli]

Originally Posted by Mail4loys

Thanks pli for the headsup. which version of OTA were you upgrading to? Hope you have enough working space if it needs to be towed to the dealer / service center . keep us posted on the progress

It was the recent drop 11/2022.44.

It’s been an interesting story… A flatbed tow truck came, even if I told them the car is not moving at all. They confirmed the car won’t even switch to neutral and then called for a wrecker. As we waited, the car somehow recovered from the lock mode. I was able to start it but the dash was showing an error about update failure that needed service. Anyway, the car was driven to the flatbed and and towed to dealer. SA said they might need some time for this issue…

[gsobol]

One of the common complain about how BMW failed to address a dead vehicle issue. In order to get the car into neutral it has to be able to crank. There is no manual overwrite like in some other vehicles. That sucks bigtime, and it shows lack of foresight in the engineering department.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by gsobol

One of the common complain about how BMW failed to address a dead vehicle issue. In order to get the car into neutral it has to be able to crank. There is no manual overwrite like in some other vehicles. That sucks bigtime, and it shows lack of foresight in the engineering department.

it is possible to get the car into neutral- but it is not easy.
the underbody cover has the be released and then a lever on the transmission flipped and wedged into place with a pair of special tools. i've heard of the dealer dispatching a tech to do this in some cases.
otherwise wheel dollies are needed.
really crappy design on bmws part.

this is why i did my OTA in the parking lot of one of my offices, its wide open vs the garage i park in at home which barely has clearance for a regular tow truck, never mind a flat bed.

[bagekko]

Its been an issue since the SMG tranny 15+ years ago, but at least on SMG and DCT cars there is a release under the gear shift trim. When I had a dead X7 I thought it was an electrical problem as charging wasn't restoring power, didn't try to jump, but the tow guy did thankfully didnt have to drag it up the flatbed.

My advice if vehicle has zero power, hook up a jump pack, it may kinda reset from the power surge.

Originally Posted by gsobol

One of the common complain about how BMW failed to address a dead vehicle issue. In order to get the car into neutral it has to be able to crank. There is no manual overwrite like in some other vehicles. That sucks bigtime, and it shows lack of foresight in the engineering department.

[gsobol]

I get the work arounds, and yes you can always use a dolly, or crawl under the vehicle, but if it dies in the middle of the road, and you do have couple able bodies with you, you can't just get out and push it to the side of the road. It's such a bad design. With all mechanical things, you can always expect things to break. Design of the tranny should take that into effect, not be an afterthought.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by gsobol

I get the work arounds, and yes you can always use a dolly, or crawl under the vehicle, but if it dies in the middle of the road, and you do have couple able bodies with you, you can't just get out and push it to the side of the road. It's such a bad design. With all mechanical things, you can always expect things to break. Design of the tranny should take that into effect, not be an afterthought.

its bmws fault for how they implemented the release for the transmission. the ZF is widely used and some mfrs, porsche for example, has a tool and an access plug in the drivers footwell


even the older design had at least a set screw that once engaged completely would put the trans into neutral vs the current wedge something in method.

[TedDz]

I sympathize with your OTA disaster. There is a much bigger problem and that is when Insurers and lending institutions start examining the risk of OTA and start asking very pointed questions at automakers. When an automaker decides it want to become a Software As A Service (SAAS) provider, which they become when they offer changes to the product they originally sold, then the level of due dilligence required escalates rapidly.

I teach risk management along with cloud audit and the number of technical controls that could be put into place over the OTA process is a rather extensive list. If a car is bricked because of a software update it’s not just the owner that is effected. The owners insurance company may have to pay out, the company financing or leasing the car takes a hit because of the diminished value of the vehicle, etc. The point being what assurance can an automaker provide that the internal controls around the development and distribution of software controlling something weighing nearly three tons was done in accordance with best practices?

How will insurers and banks treat the risk? One way would be to avoid it by simply refusing to insure or finance any vehicle from a manufacturer who cannot provide a SOC like report on their development practices. At some point governments may also get involve. While government may have an interest in imposing technology on manufacturers, such as the ability to shut off a vehicle the ramifications of poor coding and software change management will also eventually draw their attention as well.

Always remember what goes up to the cloud will come down as well.

[jmciver]

Like a few others have mentioned, this is why I do my OTA upgrade in an area (at my house) with easy access for a flat bed truck “just in case” - which of course should not be necessary. I also have that procedure to get under the X7 to get it in neutral while waiting for the flat bed as I like to DIY a lot - the “special tool” looks to be essentially an Allen key or screw driver. But of course it shouldn’t be that hard.

Another workaround method to help “slide” the X7 up on a flat bed would be to use cafateria trays (or large plastic plates) under each wheel. I don’t have any, but every time I see one of these threads, I keep thinking I should buy some from the local Dollar Store or Walmart…

[Ace6180G07]

Originally Posted by TedDz

I sympathize with your OTA disaster. There is a much bigger problem and that is when Insurers and lending institutions start examining the risk of OTA and start asking very pointed questions at automakers. When an automaker decides it want to become a Software As A Service (SAAS) provider, which they become when they offer changes to the product they originally sold, then the level of due dilligence required escalates rapidly.

I teach risk management along with cloud audit and the number of technical controls that could be put into place over the OTA process is a rather extensive list. If a car is bricked because of a software update it’s not just the owner that is effected. The owners insurance company may have to pay out, the company financing or leasing the car takes a hit because of the diminished value of the vehicle, etc. The point being what assurance can an automaker provide that the internal controls around the development and distribution of software controlling something weighing nearly three tons was done in accordance with best practices?

How will insurers and banks treat the risk? One way would be to avoid it by simply refusing to insure or finance any vehicle from a manufacturer who cannot provide a SOC like report on their development practices. At some point governments may also get involve. While government may have an interest in imposing technology on manufacturers, such as the ability to shut off a vehicle the ramifications of poor coding and software change management will also eventually draw their attention as well.

Always remember what goes up to the cloud will come down as well.

You’re missing one point though. No BMW OTA update is forced. The driver has to initialize and agree to it so that’s an out for BMW. If you don’t want to take the chance then don’t push the update button. It’s never forced. Your comments are spot on IF the updates were forced/pushed into the vehicle and the driver had no idea that that happened. But everyone is the same including myself. We all push the update button in hopes of getting the next best thing. When in turn it could go sideways at any point.

[TedDz]

No update is forced,yet. There will come a point, as with all software, when a vulnerability in code is found to be so bad an update becomes mandatory. If you don’t update then will your warranty remain in effect? Or if the vulnerability is exploited and the car is bricked will the insurance company pay off if you hadn’t performed the update?

Also consider that manufacturers will always have root access to the OS via the telematics. My interest is in the manufacture having the underlying controls to manage the process safely. Manufacturing, in my experience, lacks the resources to handle the transition to a service delivery organization well.

[Ace6180G07]

Originally Posted by TedDz

No update is forced,yet. There will come a point, as with all software, when a vulnerability in code is found to be so bad an update becomes mandatory. If you don’t update then will your warranty remain in effect? Or if the vulnerability is exploited and the car is bricked will the insurance company pay off if you hadn’t performed the update?

Also consider that manufacturers will always have root access to the OS via the telematics. My interest is in the manufacture having the underlying controls to manage the process safely. Manufacturing, in my experience, lacks the resources to handle the transition to a service delivery organization well.

Yes absolutely agree. Just like cell phones. Yes you can turn off automatic updates but then after a while stuff stops working so you’re forced to do something.

[Bimar]

Following

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Like a few others have mentioned, this is why I do my OTA upgrade in an area (at my house) with easy access for a flat bed truck “just in case” - which of course should not be necessary. I also have that procedure to get under the X7 to get it in neutral while waiting for the flat bed as I like to DIY a lot - the “special tool” looks to be essentially an Allen key or screw driver. But of course it shouldn’t be that hard.

Another workaround method to help “slide” the X7 up on a flat bed would be to use cafateria trays (or large plastic plates) under each wheel. I don’t have any, but every time I see one of these threads, I keep thinking I should buy some from the local Dollar Store or Walmart…

I've watched a flat bed drag an escalade onto its bed on slides, its not pretty, even with the plastic to help, theres alot of jerking and i'm fairly certain that it didn't do the parking pawl any favors.

if you really had to:
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Capacit.../dp/B08R9TS2BK

i've seen both parking garages and tow truck carry those.

[pli]

Thanks all for the good discussion. It’s truly a disappointment that BMW doesn’t have a robust OTA system. If I remember correctly old BMW models have brake release in the trunk. I don’t know why it has to be this complicated nowadays.

Anyway, the repair turned out to be quite easy. The dealer flashed the system to 11/2022.50 in a couple of hours. No settings were lost. A few lessons learned:

1. Do OTA in an open space, on a day that you don’t need the car for 24 hours. There’s a chance it may fail and brick your car. Once bricked, it’s literally a brick.

2. When OTA fails, there’s still a chance it may recover from the lock mode. Check back overnight and it may save you an immediate dealer visit. The recovery mode still shows an error, but all functions are available.

3. If you need to tow a bricked BMW, ask specifically for a wrecker and dolly, which may save you time waiting for a second truck, or even worse the pain of hard pulling a bricked full size SUV onto a flat bed. A wrecker can also handle tight garage space way better than a flatbed.

[lloyd99]

Originally Posted by pli

Thanks all for the good discussion. It’s truly a disappointment that BMW doesn’t have a robust OTA system. If I remember correctly old BMW models have brake release in the trunk. I don’t know why it has to be this complicated nowadays.

Anyway, the repair turned out to be quite easy. The dealer flashed the system to 11/2022.50 in a couple of hours. No settings were lost. A few lessons learned:

1. Do OTA in an open space, on a day that you don’t need the car for 24 hours. There’s a chance it may fail and brick your car. Once bricked, it’s literally a brick.

2. When OTA fails, there’s still a chance it may recover from the lock mode. Check back overnight and it may save you an immediate dealer visit. The recovery mode still shows an error, but all functions are available.

3. If you need to tow a bricked BMW, ask specifically for a wrecker and dolly, which may save you time waiting for a second truck, or even worse the pain of hard pulling a bricked full size SUV onto a flat bed. A wrecker can also handle tight garage space way better than a flatbed.

Thank you for sharing that info.

[TedDz]

Glad the problem got resolved. Just like any information system a good fallback plan is essential. I still plan on getting an X7 but I’m glad I waited as long as I did. I’ve got a funny feeling that the X5 CLI owners may also have software issues especially if the changes to the hybrid are significant.

I intend to do some additional research on how BMW does cloud and will post my findings.

[Saejin]

Here’s an option.

Do the OTA at your local dealers parking lot. While it’s updating for about 20-30 minutes go inside and enjoy some complimentary a refreshments and/or take an M car for a test drive, if they have any.

If it fails and bricks the X7 you’ll at least not have to tow it there.

I know the X7 requires certain conditions before allowing you to start the upgrade but mine prompted me a few times while out running errands.
I opted to do it in my garage when I got home, but in the back of my mind was dreading the thought of it failing.

[rjabend]

https://getjerry.com/questions/how-d...a-dead-battery

[Bashar368]

this happened to me 3 times on my previous X7 where the software update failed and the car is dead. they had to drag the car on to the tow truck using skates

[mtimmy]

My update failed too, car cannot start... ... keep pressing the start button like 20 times the car reset... and all error codes came up. but was able to start the car and go home.. 45 mins away