[Missduvy]

Some of you are making the argument that if you want sporty, you'll drive another of your quicker non-SUVs that day. Good point. But for many of us, we have one vehicle. And that vehicle has to be able to hold 6 (or 7) people. We want both luxury AND an exciting drive. And it seems to me that's what the X7 was meant for. It's a lot quicker and more fun than our friends' Escalades and more luxurious than most other SUVs out there.

To your point, my husband has quick cars: an M5, a 911 GTS, and a Ferrari 458 (edit: 488). Does he enjoy driving my X7? Not so much. But when we go on family trips and he has to drive a huge car, it's about as exciting a drive as he's gonna get. But he's not the kind of audience BMW was catering to with this car. I am.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

If budget is limited, then yes, I will not argue that the most luxury SUV you can get is the 40i at that price point. But overall, if we want to move from the $75-99sK range all the way to $100-150K range, skipping the 50i and 60i as the better option compared to 40i, the Range Rover (and maybe the Escalade) will get you much more luxury elements than the X7. To me, luxury is not a priority, but rather ride comfort and sportiness is what I wanted from the X7 and exactly what I found in the 50i.

And that's totally fine. I'm just stressing that different people have different priorities in what they look for in a large 3 row SUV at any given price point.

In my situation I have a sports sedan for sporty driving - and the only time I ever drive the SUV is with family or if I need to haul something large - in both of those scenarios I can't drive in a sporty manner (I've tried with the family.... the wife gives me mean looks). And I'm sure as hell not going to pick a large SUV over a sports sedan for my individual sporty driving desire. It doesn't matter how beastly the SUV is - it can't compare to the sportiness of a sports sedan.

In terms of the Range - while I agree it can be more luxurious in the higher trims - I personally didn't feel that price was worth it for my needs. The X7 is in that sweet spot where it's priced similarly to its direct competition while far exceeding them in luxury IMO. Who knows, maybe next time I'll splurge and get the Range.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Missduvy

Ferrari 458

This is all I want in life

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

This is all I want in life

Fully loaded X7 M50i/60i is half-way to a base 458. Keep grinding.
Well… pre pandemic… now it's maybe 35% there. Might have to grind a while…

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

Fully loaded X7 M50i/60i is half-way to a base 458. Keep grinding.
Well… pre pandemic… now it's maybe 35% there. Might have to grind a while…

I've got a plan in place... it involves the kids growing up and a toy car fund. I just hope in 10-15 years I can still reasonably purchase a naturally aspirated ferrari.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I've got a plan in place... it involves the kids growing up and a toy car fund. I just hope in 10-15 years I can still reasonably purchase a naturally aspirated ferrari.

Also, don't forget to start a (toy-car-maintenance-fund) account too, lol.

[andyli888]

Getting back to the conversation at hand, I think I have a decent amount of experience with a 2020 X7 M50i (just traded and bought new plus my nephew just bought a 2022 X7 M50i last month), a 2020 X7 40i (loaner for about 35 days), and I just put around 200 plus miles on my 2023 X7 M60i. I've also got a 2018 GLS63, I can compare it to. Obviously, I like the Germans and their stupid fast 7 seat SUVs!

Look OP, the best is the 2023 X7 M60i, hands down. While the looks are subjective (my wife loves it, my nephew who drives the 2022 X7 M50i hates it), it's simply the best driving experience. It comes with rear wheel steering which means the handling is beautiful, the turn radius is more like a sedan and the car has a lot more character than the 2020 X7 M50i and the X7 40i. The M60i is more of a M car than the M50i. It's not a major difference (you're not doing 0-60 in 3.0) but it's not a minor difference either. In sport plus mode, the M60i is more responsive in steering, shifting and throttle control than the M50i. If I had to list the X7s from most sports carlike to least it will be: 2023 X7 M60i, 2020 X7 M50i, 2020 X7 x40i. The 2023 is closer to a full M car than the 2020. Little touches like the M badges inside the car, the red sport plus mood lighting, and even the better fake engine noises really make the M60i much more M like. The 2023 challenges you to tell her she's not a full M car.

Now pricing wise, the preowned X7 40i is obviously the cheapest option but realize that you are giving up a lot for the price. A used 40i is in the 50-60k range but a 2023 M60i is 100k+ (I managed to get 3% off on my build). The 40i is less luxurious, slower, and the driving feels more boaty. It feels more minivan like. And remember it was a loaner, so I pushed it hard and didn't baby it at all! My loaner wasn't well equipped either, so you can see stuff that was missing like the Alcantra headliner, missing tow hitch and the upgraded (massage and vented) seats. It's the best in the class but it's definitely not as good.

The price difference between the M60i and the M50i isn't that much when you factor everything else in. A M60i is 103k and a used 2020 M50i is around 80k. But you can probably get 4.29% financing on the new car and a 3% off on the car. Plus you get the full factory warranty and new tires with the new M60i so it really a wash. Here's my recommendation depending on your wallet:

X7 M60i,
X7 M50i,
X7 40i.

Good Luck!

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by andyli888

Getting back to the conversation at hand, I think I have a decent amount of experience with a 2020 X7 M50i (just traded and bought new plus my nephew just bought a 2022 X7 M50i last month), a 2020 X7 40i (loaner for about 35 days), and I just put around 200 plus miles on my 2023 X7 M60i. I've also got a 2018 GLS63, I can compare it to. Obviously, I like the Germans and their stupid fast 7 seat SUVs!

Look OP, the best is the 2023 X7 M60i, hands down. While the looks are subjective (my wife loves it, my nephew who drives the 2022 X7 M50i hates it), it's simply the best driving experience. It comes with rear wheel steering which means the handling is beautiful, the turn radius is more like a sedan and the car has a lot more character than the 2020 X7 M50i and the X7 40i. The M60i is more of a M car than the M50i. It's not a major difference (you're not doing 0-60 in 3.0) but it's not a minor difference either. In sport plus mode, the M60i is more responsive in steering, shifting and throttle control than the M50i. If I had to list the X7s from most sports carlike to least it will be: 2023 X7 M60i, 2020 X7 M50i, 2020 X7 x40i. The 2023 is closer to a full M car than the 2020. Little touches like the M badges inside the car, the red sport plus mood lighting, and even the better fake engine noises really make the M60i much more M like. The 2023 challenges you to tell her she's not a full M car.

Now pricing wise, the preowned X7 40i is obviously the cheapest option but realize that you are giving up a lot for the price. A used 40i is in the 50-60k range but a 2023 M60i is 100k+ (I managed to get 3% off on my build). The 40i is less luxurious, slower, and the driving feels more boaty. It feels more minivan like. And remember it was a loaner, so I pushed it hard and didn't baby it at all! My loaner wasn't well equipped either, so you can see stuff that was missing like the Alcantra headliner, missing tow hitch and the upgraded (massage and vented) seats. It's the best in the class but it's definitely not as good.

The price difference between the M60i and the M50i isn't that much when you factor everything else in. A M60i is 103k and a used 2020 M50i is around 80k. But you can probably get 4.29% financing on the new car and a 3% off on the car. Plus you get the full factory warranty and new tires with the new M60i so it really a wash. Here's my recommendation depending on your wallet:

X7 M60i,
X7 M50i,
X7 40i.

Good Luck!

Subjective, not objective. The early-LCI M60i is an incomplete vehicle. Does it "drive" better subjectively? Maybe. There's likely others in your shoes (ie who have or have driven them all) whose opinion will differ fundamentally.

But it's objectively incomplete: Lights aren't up to snuff. Software full of early gremlins. Engine heavily detuned/tamed from its capability. 200lbs+ heavier. Missed tech promises (self driving tech). I just wouldn't be intellectually able to agree to pay BMW for this proposition compared to what I have paid them for when their proposition was a more complete package.

[andyli888]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

Subjective, not objective. The early-LCI M60i is an incomplete vehicle. Does it "drive" better subjectively? Maybe. There's likely others in your shoes (ie who have or have driven them all) whose opinion will differ fundamentally.

But it's objectively incomplete: Lights aren't up to snuff. Software full of early gremlins. Engine heavily detuned/tamed from its capability. 200lbs+ heavier. Missed tech promises (self driving tech). I just wouldn't be intellectually able to agree to pay BMW for this proposition compared to what I have paid them for when their proposition was a more complete package.

I agree with the drawbacks but I disagree with the fact that it's incomplete. A base M50i is doesn't have the upgraded cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering that the M60i has. Also, the 48v hybrid system allows the start/stop system to be almost undetectable in normal driving, you don't get that lurch. And frankly speaking, in my experience in the NY/NJ/PA/DE/VA area, the M60i is a better deal. You'll be lucky to get a 2022 at MSRP (my nephew who bought his similarly equipped 2022 paid more than I did on my 2023) but you can probably get a little discount on a 2023.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by andyli888

I agree with the drawbacks but I disagree with the fact that it's incomplete. A base M50i is doesn't have the upgraded cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering that the M60i has. Also, the 48v hybrid system allows the start/stop system to be almost undetectable in normal driving, you don't get that lurch. And frankly speaking, in my experience in the NY/NJ/PA/DE/VA area, the M60i is a better deal. You'll be lucky to get a 2022 at MSRP (my nephew who bought his similarly equipped 2022 paid more than I did on my 2023) but you can probably get a little discount on a 2023.

What is the difference in “ cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering” between the 50i and 60i? Nothing has changed.
The cameras are only different in the 7 sedan. The X7 didn’t yet* get the new cameras or driving assist hardware.

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

What is the difference in " cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering" between the 50i and 60i? Nothing has changed.
The cameras are only different in the 7 sedan. The X7 didn't yet* get the new cameras or driving assist hardware.

Exactly. Hence incomplete.

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by andyli888

I agree with the drawbacks but I disagree with the fact that it's incomplete. A base M50i is doesn't have the upgraded cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering that the M60i has. Also, the 48v hybrid system allows the start/stop system to be almost undetectable in normal driving, you don't get that lurch. And frankly speaking, in my experience in the NY/NJ/PA/DE/VA area, the M60i is a better deal. You'll be lucky to get a 2022 at MSRP (my nephew who bought his similarly equipped 2022 paid more than I did on my 2023) but you can probably get a little discount on a 2023.

The M50i is an outgoing model that had all the options that BMW promised and intended for it.
The current early LCI is lacking half of what BMW promised and is most likely to get it within 12-24 months, so why pull the trigger now on it? For a buggy software with a round screen and headlights that have less output and adaptability than previous M50i? Or the heavier weight and exact same engine output numbers? That's what I mean by incomplete package.

[andyli888]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

What is the difference in “ cameras, DHP, and rear wheel steering” between the 50i and 60i? Nothing has changed.
The cameras are only different in the 7 sedan. The X7 didn’t yet* get the new cameras or driving assist hardware.

The M50i didn't have the rear wheel steering last I checked. And DHP was available as an option compared to the M60i where it is part of the base m60i. I've never had the chance to try the DHP until now since none of the 3 X7s I drove before I got the M60i had it.

[andyli888]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

The M50i is an outgoing model that had all the options that BMW promised and intended for it.
The current early LCI is lacking half of what BMW promised and is most likely to get it within 12-24 months, so why pull the trigger now on it? For a buggy software with a round screen and headlights that have less output and adaptability than previous M50i? Or the heavier weight and exact same engine output numbers? That's what I mean by incomplete package.

I mean, the best and greatest is always around the corner, we're always chasing it lol. I mean, this argument always comes up when a car/phone/computers/etc is refreshed or renewed. It's going to come down to your personal preference. Do you want the latest and greatest? Or do you want tried and true?

[HolaHola]

Originally Posted by andyli888

The M50i didn't have the rear wheel steering last I checked. And DHP was available as an option compared to the M60i where it is part of the base m60i. I've never had the chance to try the DHP until now since none of the 3 X7s I drove before I got the M60i had it.

The rear wheel steering is part of the DHP package on m50i's. At least on my 2021 that's the case.

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Originally Posted by andyli888

The M50i didn't have the rear wheel steering last I checked. And DHP was available as an option compared to the M60i where it is part of the base m60i. I've never had the chance to try the DHP until now since none of the 3 X7s I drove before I got the M60i had it.

M50i fully loaded comes with/came with Dynamic Handling package which includes:
- Adaptive steering and suspension adjustment based on road conditions, navigation input and camera input from the front radar camera
- Active rear-wheel steering

It's the same as in the M60i… I agree with you that the M60i is the "newest & hottest" out there (not counting XB7 which is really the hottest one out there) and except for design and id8 almost identical in specs to the outgoing M50i (engine is brand new but made the vehicle quite heavier and has no increase output numbers.)

I keep speaking up against everybody trying to convince themselves or others that the M60i is currently a "good buy" though. Objectively it's a brand new software & engine setup, and therefore not good to be the beta tester for BMW, as the several threads on software issues, lack of performance & handling, sub-par light-output prove. The objective good thing to do right now if you're in a market for an X7 is to wait 12 months to get it.

[HolaHola]

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

M50i fully loaded comes with/came with Dynamic Handling package which includes:
- Adaptive steering and suspension adjustment based on road conditions, navigation input and camera input from the front radar camera
- Active rear-wheel steering

It's the same as in the M60i… I agree with you that the M60i is the "newest & hottest" out there (not counting XB7 which is really the hottest one out there) and except for design and id8 almost identical in specs to the outgoing M50i (engine is brand new but made the vehicle quite heavier and has no increase output numbers.)

I keep speaking up against everybody trying to convince themselves or others that the M60i is currently a "good buy" though. Objectively it's a brand new software & engine setup, and therefore not good to be the beta tester for BMW, as the several threads on software issues, lack of performance & handling, sub-par light-output prove. The objective good thing to do right now if you're in a market for an X7 is to wait 12 months to get it.

Originally Posted by Tr4ckD4ys

M50i fully loaded comes with/came with Dynamic Handling package which includes:
- Adaptive steering and suspension adjustment based on road conditions, navigation input and camera input from the front radar camera
- Active rear-wheel steering

It's the same as in the M60i… I agree with you that the M60i is the "newest & hottest" out there (not counting XB7 which is really the hottest one out there) and except for design and id8 almost identical in specs to the outgoing M50i (engine is brand new but made the vehicle quite heavier and has no increase output numbers.)

I keep speaking up against everybody trying to convince themselves or others that the M60i is currently a "good buy" though. Objectively it's a brand new software & engine setup, and therefore not good to be the beta tester for BMW, as the several threads on software issues, lack of performance & handling, sub-par light-output prove. The objective good thing to do right now if you're in a market for an X7 is to wait 12 months to get it.

I just purchased a used 2021 fully loaded. Low $90's with only 10k miles. Original MSRP $117k just one year ago. I viewed this as superior to waiting. ID7>ID8 (at least right now). Presets (non negotiable IMO). Hvac buttons. Substantial warranty remaining. Heck of a car and heck of a discount that dominates waiting IMO.

[pgk500]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

Disclaimer: I am going to avoid the question of (M60i vs M50i) because that is a completely different subject and I already have strong feelings towards being a NO-NO for the LCI no matter what. Hence, my answer is based on the pre-pci 40i vs M50i both new if u can find any, and pre-owned.

Financially, it is always best to go pre-owned. If you do, you for sure must go with the M50i instead of the 40i and let the first owner absorb the depreciation (I do this 80% of the time i buy vehicles, and I let 20% of my time for myself to enjoy a fresh new leather but only when my plan is to keep the vehicle for 20+ years or more). 9 out of 10 times, a low mileage pre-owned vehicle is as good as a brand new one (it gets tricky if you have swirl marks and paint perfection OCD like myself, but you always can do paint correction yourself for a few 100s cost of supplies and FUN TIME or a $1000 for a shop and it will look better than brand new! )!!!

The M50i has several advantages:
1. Value vs time: It will sell in the future much faster and you will get less depreciation cause someone had already absorbed the first hit, and the M50i tends to hold it's value much better than 40i. You can easily spot that by the fact some pre-owned fully loaded M50i are still selling for 85-93K (~20% depreciation) while 40i (my local BMW dealer) are offered at $55K (35% depreciation) and they are not even selling!!! All their 50i are usually gone within days-weeks, while most of their 40is stay for months and got discounted by $10K now.
2. AC: During summer months, if you ever go to very warm/hot states, many 40i users have reported issues with the AC of the 40i not catching up.
3. Engine and driving experience: the M50i is much more powerful and you will find it fun to drive. If you drive a BMW, you must go through the experience of the V8 engine. You will love driving the vehicle every morning. Smooth but powerful. The 40i is smooth but does JUST FINE to pull itself. The M50i is really fun and is the real deal.
4. Features/options: With the M50i, you don't need to be concerned about potentially losing some of the critical features, such as the dynamic handling package (in my opinion, it is a must have).
5. Likability with time: If you get the 40i, and if you ever then get the M50i as a loaner, you will regret the decision then. However, that is not to say that the 40i is not great vehicle too, but the M50i outweighs the 40i from a driving experience prospective for only a few MPGs lower (few $100's more per 10,000 miles?) difference that BMW buyers at that price won't be even worried about.
6. Driving experience in town: You can't go wrong with either one, but the reason I am all in for M50i instead of 40i is not because I race with it. Even driving in town and within speed limits is more fun with the M50i. I like how it takes off from traffic lights like a butterfly and I love how the exhaust system sound which can be very quite/smooth under eco mode light driving or too loud and fun under sport mode (you have both worlds in one vehicle).
7. Driving experience - highway: if you do some highway driving, especially between states, and especially with a full vehicle of stuff or people, the 40i does not do as well as the M50i.
8. Towing: Do you care about towing? The towing limit for both is NOT that impressive anyway, but you will lose another 550 lbs with the 40. The 50i tows 500lbs more weight which you may really need given that non of them tows huge loads anyway. When both are equipped with factory-installing towing hitch, both have equivalent limit of 7,500 lbs, However, The total approved gross vehicle weight is still higher for the M50i than 40i by about 300 lbs even when both have the factory-installed towing hitch. I don't know if this difference matches the higher weight of the M50 engine (you have to double check)
9. All together: In summary, you may miss something with 40i, but you will not miss anything with the M50i. If you are buying pre-owned, the price difference will be smaller than buying new, and hence I'll consider the M50i unless the budget is very limited. I'd rather get a pre-owned M50i with a few miles for a price X than getting a brand new 40i for the same price.

If the budget is VERY limited: you can take a look at the 2019 Xdrive 50i with low mileage. If you can find a FULLY LOADED one which was very easy to spec in 2019, you will love it and you won't miss any feature, for a fraction of it's original 121K MSRP! (perhaps $70-75K for 30-40K miles on the odometer)

My ranking for what I'd get is as follows:
1. Pre-owned M50i (the best financial and valuable decision)
2. brand-new 2022 M50i (if you can find it, but u'll have to fully know the LCI vs pre-LCI changes to decide if you also agree that the pre-lci is a better option for u)
3. Brand-new 2023 M60i
4. Pre-owned 40i
5. brand-new 2022 40i pre-LCI
6. brand-new 2023 40i LCI

Brand new 40i for me . That V8 is going to be a gas guzzler no thanks lol

[pgk500]

Originally Posted by BMWX7

I walked into the dealership to buy a 40i. I walked out with a m60i order. Driving the V8 simply made me smile. To each their own as this is all subjective…

Lol absolutely brother. 40i for me, plenty of power!

[zigandazag]

I went through this recently, I had a 2022 M50i on order decided cancel and wait for 2023.

Now after driving the M60i and a X40i with DHP ended up with the X40i.

I think the M60i seems a little off from the 2022, whatever they did with the new engine to keep it in line with the 2022 power levels has compromised it a bit (in my opinion). I'd wait for the next rev of the M60i.

[Angelo_GraysonMiniBMW]

Originally Posted by pgk500

Brand new 40i for me . That V8 is going to be a gas guzzler no thanks lol

LMAO! You’re joking right? You are literally saving roughy 2-3mpg. Have you done the math on 50i vs. 40i fuel cost over a year? I have and it’s well under $1k. Even if it cost $1500 more in fuel, its pennies compared to the cost of these suvs. If you can afford a $75k suv, you won’t miss an extra 500-1k. Lol! You’re already buying premium fuel, might as well be for a V8. I owned an X7 40i and also drove a m50i for a week as a Turo rental. The very thing I noticed was 3mpg on highway difference and in town “Denver” it might have been 3-4mpg difference and that’s 4000 ft higher then where i live. I kept track of this because I am seriously considering buying a m50i and wanted to rent one before buying. Now I realize how boring and under power the 40i is for the X7 when loaded up. The 40i in the X5 is perfect but not when you load up an X7. The M50i just pulls so well on steep hill climbs and it feels much more alive on a regular driving basis. It’s still quiet when you want it to be and roars when needed. The M50i is only a gas guzzler if you’re constantly smashing the pedal otherwise it’s a very economical V8 compared to most V8 on the market for the amount of power it produces.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by Angelo1

LMAO! You’re joking right? You are literally saving roughy 2-3mpg. Have you done the math on 50i vs. 40i fuel cost over a year? I have and it’s well under $1k. Even if it cost $1500 more in fuel, its pennies compared to the cost of these suvs. If you can afford a $75k suv, you won’t miss an extra 500-1k. Lol! You’re already buying premium fuel, might as well be for a V8. I owned an X7 40i and also drove a m50i for a week as a Turo rental. The very thing I noticed was 3mpg on highway difference and in town “Denver” it might have been 3-4mpg difference and that’s 4000 ft higher then where i live. I kept track of this because I am seriously considering buying a m50i and wanted to rent one before buying. Now I realize how boring and under power the 40i is for the X7 when loaded up. The 40i in the X5 is perfect but not when you load up an X7. The M50i just pulls so well on steep hill climbs and it feels much more alive on a regular driving basis. It’s still quiet when you want it to be and roars when needed. The M50i is only a gas guzzler if you’re constantly smashing the pedal otherwise it’s a very economical V8 compared to most V8 on the market for the amount of power it produces.

I agree... If the reason a buyer is going with 40i instead of M50i is for fuel/MPG reason, he is probably in the wrong vehicle at first place if saving a few bucks/hundreds in gas while driving around with a $80-100K vehicle is the motivation, or he didn't know how to do the math.