[orkinos]

The issue is, Audi was creating demand by keeping supply in control which in return gave them a higher profit margin than the German competitors as their cars were slightly overpriced historically. Now, after Covid, all other manufacturers realized that a controlled scarcity would give them better profit on top of the already increased prices "due to Covid". Days of "several K below MSRP" are gone. On top of that, like in the XM, they try to create something that can attract new buyers with not much additional cost but at the same time they hike up the price. If you are new to car buying and act with desire to own something that not many own, you end up paying more than the car's real value. Having money or not and being able to afford it or not is not the problem with XM. You are overpaying for that vehicle. If you are buying let's say a Ferrari Purosangue, you do not need it but you want it and you are ready for the price as it is a unique and rare vehicle. But, XM won't be as rare and certainly is not unique as it is based on X5 and shares a substantial amount of parts with it. While one is priced under 100K and XM is starting at 160K with no extra performance benefits or higher quality materials and more importantly other options at close price range, makes the XM overpriced. It is ambitious by BMW to offer this awkward car for that price but time will tell. The only reason I see for that high price is that BMW will try to slowly increase their other car's prices.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by PNWM3

Wow, that's $15k less than the starting point on the XB7's $145k starting point.

I have an XB7 and it's incredible, but it's not a huge departure from the X7 M60i. Exhaust, brakes, increased turbos and then some brand bits are the major difference. You're also bit paying for the exclusivity.

The XM makes the pre-LCI XB7 look old. And it outperforms an XB7 while also being able to be 100% electric while bouncing around town with the kids.

Out the door it's actually not much different than an XB7 when you look at the actual cost of ownership. You pretty much have to buy the XB7 as the residuals on a lease are horrible. A dealership with an XM in stock said that for 36 months, with 10k miles the residual for an XM is 54%. That's better than an XB7 enough that out the door, if you lease, the price difference all but disappears.

And I'd disagree with your comment on the Cayennes not sharing much with each trim. Your average person cannot tell each trim from one another. No one will confuse an XM for any other BMW which is what they are going for.

The average person cannot tell a RWD X5 from an X5M Competition either. There is nothing special enough about the XM to warrant the price. I don’t lease vehicles, I always purchase. With looking at specs and options, an iX M60 is a much better vehicle than the XM, also, driving a PHEV around in electric mode is tedious, they are slow, and most are designed to be the most efficient driving in Hybrid mode, so I would still rather have the iX for full power and electric driving. I get that some people like this, if it has $20,000+ in discounts I would maybe go drive one (so probably sometime later this year), but for what they are asking now, along with the fact that it is overall weirdly bulbous and unattractive, it is a hard no.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Carnook

This car is for bold trailblazers. Not people dithering over value or practicality.

Really?? And what exact trails will it blaze?

Not on the asphalt, where an Urus or DBX is faster.
Not offroad, where pretty much everyone else is better.
Not in the luxury market, where DBX or Bentayga are more prestigious.

What is left? I'm really curious.

[XM Label]

Originally Posted by ipeefreely

I have a XM on order but I think I'm going to cancel it.

Currently have a brand new X7 which I actually love. The XM seems like a downgraded version of my car. Less utility, rides rougher, and more expensive.

Does anyone know if the back seats fold down? I might just opt for a x6m instead as I wanted something sportier.

The rear seats do fold down but not completely flat. There is a slight incline but lots of space.

[XM Label]

Disclaimer: I am not a professional car reviewer but I do love performance SUVs and have had lots of seat time with many different brands. Porsche cayenne turbo, Audi RSQ8, BMW X5 M50i, Jeep grand Cherokee trackhawk, AMG G63, BMW X5M competition which I currently own and will make a lot of comparisons to for reference.

I was able to see and test drive it this past weekend and here are my thoughts. I initially disliked the entire exterior of the vehicle but it started to grow on me while looking at videos and images online. When I saw it in person I can tell you it stands out and when parked next to other BMW SUV’s it makes the others look outdated. In order of likes, I love the front end, (the large glowing grille, shaped hood, split headlights), then side profile, and rear end was my least favorite as proportions were not to my liking (large rear glass, thin rear lights, and vertical quad exhausts just looked weird). No matter what your opinion about the looks are there is no denying it has street presence. It is lower in height than I expected and stance was very wide when looking from front and the rear. I think they could have done a better job with the 23 inch wheels and I did not like the gold trim in person at all.

The front interior looked like my X5M competition I currently drive except with updated IDrive 8 and large curved display and less buttons. I was pleased to see they included carbon fiber shifters but the wheel is exactly the same as in my current vehicle as is much of the center console from cup holders back to armrest. The area near the HUD had an interesting architecture which I liked a lot better and personally don’t mind having less buttons as it is cleaner look and I predict all cars will eventually have large screens so there is no real going back. I know people complain about lack of buttons with IDrive 8 but it’s so easy to use voice assistant in place of the buttons. I also liked the matte carbon over the glossy carbon I currently have, no fingerprints! Front seats felt the same as X5M but front cabin space seemed more spacious than X5. I do wish headrests were more comfortable like in the X5 M50i and they gave it the steering wheel from the new 7 series. Also at this price everything should be covered in leather but the pillar between front and rear door below the seat belt is hard plastic instead of leather which should be there in a car this price.

The rear seats are so so so comfortable and much softer than the front seats. The rear seat leather appearance wraps around to the door and theme is continued to back pockets of front seats. Initially, I thought the lounge theme was a gimmick but I have to say in my driving position at 6 feet tall the back seat is a nice place to be. Tons of headroom and legroom, I am almost able to straighten my legs in the back with my feet under front seats. Feels almost reclined when sitting back there even though seat backs and bottom are not adjustable. Best part is leather that wraps around to door. When you put your head between headrest and door area I could almost fall asleep because it is so soft. I also liked the side pillar right next to my head as it gives an almost limo like feeling. Geometric headliner is nice but panoramic sunroof should have been an option or better yet rear fold down TV screen from 7 series should be an option as well. I also wish they had the LCD screens in the rear armrests in the 7 series as this is the halo car. Also massage in rear seats. The rear cargo area with seats up is smaller than my X5 because the floor of cargo area is higher. I can’t believe that there are no buttons in the rear to fold down and return the rear seats back up in the rear cargo area for the price we are paying! The geometric roof theme is continued onto the inside of the rear hatch which is a nice touch. There is a hard cargo cover that can be removed but no storage for cover is present in the car. You have to leave it at home. There also is no spare tire area but mobility kit is nicely tucked away behind a cover on left hand side. There is also a small hard cover attached to rear hatch so when the door is closed it provides complete privacy for storage in rear. There are two bright led light strips on left and right side of rear cargo area under rails that hold hard cargo cover up which are nice. The bag containing the charging cables is nice and can be attached to right side so it slides less in cargo area.

On start up in sport mode, cold start is loud. Louder than my X5M competition. I feel the X5M exhaust is neutered but the XM has a proper roar, not too loud or obnoxious but makes you curious enough to turn your head if nearby. But by default, the XM starts in electric mode so my neighbors will be appreciative. Driving in sport mode, the suspension appeared stiffer than my X5M but not as stiff as X3M and I liked it (but I like stiff suspensions). Corners well for a 6000 pound SUV as it remains flatter than I ever thought it could around the bends. It just feels more planted. The pedal was not as light as my X5M, feels more powerful, and throttle response is improved compared to X5M in hybrid mode as there is less turbo lag and more instant response due to electric motor. Shifts felt more sharper than my X5M believe it or not and there are backfires present when lifting off pedal after acceleration which is not present in my X5M. Turning radius is same or maybe even better due to rear wheel steering and I have to say it doesn’t feel that much heavier than my X5M even though it clearly is a larger and heavier vehicle. When I’m in all electric mode, it is quiet and has more instant torque than I thought existed. Driving around town it fits then bill. Biggest negative about the drive is when in electric mode and you have to quickly accelerate by pushing pedal through kickdown, there is a long delay before the V8 kicks in like you would feel with a long turbo lag. Also once it does kick in the transition between electric to hybrid is not smooth and somewhat unrefined and rough.

Overall, I was not a fan but now I am a fan. Is it perfect? No and no performance SUV I have driven is. But the XM is more good than bad in my opinion. I heard they are producing about 1000 worldwide and I do believe there are 1000 people like me in this world who will buy it….as for holding value like other competitors like G wagon or urus, I don’t think it will but time will tell…..

[mbanck]

The Ars Technica article is relatively positive, which makes sense as they are more focused on technology and less on driving dynamics:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03...our-attention/

Eminently composed and capable of effortlessly cruising at a jaw-dropping pace, the XM is an adept grand tourer that makes the most of its technology and creature comforts, and it in turn delivers a driving experience that's befitting of a halo product.

It might not be as opulent as a Bentley Bentayga or as quick as an Aston Martin DBX707, but at a base price of $159,995, the level of luxury and performance offered by the XM feels like a relative bargain at this end of the market.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by PNWM3

What should it have cost?

Just as an example, a Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid Coupe starts at $173,800 and while a bit quicker, is smaller and shares a substantial many more parts with a base Cayenne. And out the door you’re easily looking at $20k+ more than a fully loaded XM.

I think they’re spot on with the price. It’s a bit tough in the current market having to pay MSRP but 2 years ago you’d easily have gotten $9k off. Interest rates aren’t helping the situation either.

I’d like it to be cheaper of course, but BMW put it at a level that undercuts most of the competition by a considerable amount and it’ll bring new folks to the brand. I know my college-age son loves it. They’re going to make more money on people like him over his lifetime than they will people like me who have probably bought more BMWs previously than I will in the future.

It’s a smart business move, even if it alienates some existing customers. It’s what luxury brands do to survive and stay relevant.

Cayenne is a an interesting comparison point I think. This is an old, not updated model now that really is due a refresh. So are its prices which are gonna be renewed. But thats not the main thing.

Porsche is going to launch a large SUV, that starts with 911 prices (Cayenne is cheaper as you know). That car will be their halo SUV, kind of URUS territory. The car has project name but no announced name yet, but it is a well known plan. 2025- kind of launch, so theyll reveal it next big event, one of the large ones.

So as Porsche wants to move to luxury Ferrari pricing as Ferrari is moving into space, BMW is targeting Porsche pricing. It needs 20%+ to go, and youll see it. BMW of course has a bit of a brand situation to address having like all German cars play with "affordable" feeder models in 00s, like 1 series that continue into today, but thats hard to stretch into truly premium segment where POrsche plays. But thats their goal. Porsche moves on, so BMW wants that slice. Just its cars are too ugly to compete but BMW seems to not think so. Thats another matter.

[MacOSR]

I can't believe I am saying this but I was at the dealer yesterday getting work done on some cars and they had three XMs they had just received. After looking at them and seeing them in person I found myself considering one and wanting to test drive one. My wife even commented that she thinks they will sell like crazy and they will appeal to a certain demographic that wants something that gets attention. This would replace my 2016 X5M which I feel like I need to replace. I'm not sure, as an M-car owner that I would be in the market for this if I didn't already have three other M-cars that I am not getting rid of. If I had to choose one car to own I would still most like pick an X5M if it were a BMW. I will still also consider an AMG G-Wagon as a daily driver. Anyhow, I figured I would share that my opinion has changed somewhat towards the XM after seeing it in person.

[Flo]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Came into effect Sept '22. Saw an M8 Comp covertible at my dealer last week...tax alone was over $22kCAD

I've already mentioned that in another post but in France we're at €50k ($54k) right now... ridiculous. Luckily I live in the US.

[xmanpro]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

For all of you who think the XM will be a hit in China, WSJ reported 2 days ago that BMW Group is offering deep discounts and promotions in China after the government phased out the subsidies for EV’s. I know that this is a hybrid, but there is still a 10% super-luxary automobile tax in China for auto’s priced greater than 1.3m yuan ($189,000) and excludes the 25% tax on all foreign cars shipped to China. I don’t belive that the XM will be shipped in parts to China to have final local assembly to circumvent the import taxes. This price range would preffer Bentley and Rolls-Royce, as BMW should have put the new 7 series semi-lie flat seats in the rear instead of the M lounge—no cooled or massaging seats?

Agreed on the back seats. I thought the concept had really cool back seats similar to the two back seats of the 7 series. This bench is for kids. They wasted an opportunity here imo.

Might still get one tho.

[XM Label]

Longest and most thorough review I have seen for the XM so far. Interesting that European version allows for battery recharging in econtrol mode but in US can only hold the charge. Really wish US version allowed for battery recharging while driving as well….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edh4qrehWcs

[Jimjamz]

Based on these reviews my sense is these hybrid cars are going to be looked at as too compromised and veering into the worst (vs best) of both worlds. Ie. Too much weight, overly complex powertrains (leading to higher relative cost), immature charging networks for now…

For me, I’m going to stick to pure combustion performance cars and then jump in to all electric performance cars when (and if) they sort out how to do them well.

[XM Label]

Personally I think this is a great step for someone not ready to go full bore electric and doesn’t need a lot of range. I don’t need to install 240V outlets because I can charge the small battery using existing outlet probably overnight. Nor do I have to worry about finding chargers that work on longer drives as there are gas stations every five minutes. It is nice that I can go all electric for around the town driving but have full hybrid and range to stretch it’s legs on longer drives….