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BMW XM (G09) Forums General BMW XM Forum Doug DeMuro Review: The 2023 BMW XM Is a Controversial $160,000 Fast Luxury SUV

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      04-08-2023, 04:09 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
Plug in hybrids are dead on arrival. More complex than pure EV or pure ICE - with weight and complexity of both. Maserati have a sound approach - all ICE or EV in their next gen cars. These transitionary hybrid ICE/EVs will tank on resale.
Agreed

These are definitely better to lease
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      04-08-2023, 07:21 AM   #90
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This car is so FUGLY, it makes the M2 look somehow acceptable.
Wake up people, this generation of M cars is the worst ever…
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      04-08-2023, 08:34 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
Plug in hybrids are dead on arrival. More complex than pure EV or pure ICE - with weight and complexity of both. Maserati have a sound approach - all ICE or EV in their next gen cars. These transitionary hybrid ICE/EVs will tank on resale.
You hit the nail on the head. This is so true and rarely discussed. Either BEV or ICE, hybrids are a product of people having difficulty letting go of ICE. These hybrids will be an absolute nightmare to maintain long term due to the inherent complexity.
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      04-08-2023, 08:50 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Luminor513 View Post
You hit the nail on the head. This is so true and rarely discussed. Either BEV or ICE, hybrids are a product of people having difficulty letting go of ICE. These hybrids will be an absolute nightmare to maintain long term due to the inherent complexity.
100%. When they first announced this thing, it was my first thought - why would anyone prefer a complex drivetrain that adds so much weight? This was Fisker’s approach in parallel to Tesla’s launch with BEV - and the hybrid technology failed (they failed for a number of reasons, to be fair, but PHEV was also the approach the incumbents took as they were very slow to migrate to BEV).

PHEV is even a headache in the short term as we’ve seen anectodally with friends who gave up on their X5 45e for the litany of problems …

And then even in the day-to-day: must plug in every night and must get gas regularly for the thirsty V8. Not to mention the recalls for fire risk….

I still haven’t seen any of these reviewers explain what happens after a longer drive when the batteries run out. Basically the car must get sluggish and bogged down.
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      04-08-2023, 09:24 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Teutonic View Post
LOL… my post was pretty explanatory. Nevermind. Carry on…
My bad if I misunderstood. This week is my first week of reading.
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      04-08-2023, 09:25 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
Plug in hybrids are dead on arrival. More complex than pure EV or pure ICE - with weight and complexity of both. Maserati have a sound approach - all ICE or EV in their next gen cars. These transitionary hybrid ICE/EVs will tank on resale.
Agreed but for now the people who are afraid to go full EV think they’re the best option which is so strange to me.
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      04-08-2023, 11:15 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito1420 View Post
Agreed but for now the people who are afraid to go full EV think they’re the best option which is so strange to me.
Have you considered they’re not actually fearful; and that a PHEV is indeed the best option for themselves and their living situation? It might be strange to you, and still be the best option for them. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.
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      04-08-2023, 11:45 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
Have you considered they’re not actually fearful; and that a PHEV is indeed the best option for themselves and their living situation? It might be strange to you, and still be the best option for them. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.
Yea I agree with that. Although I hate the car and also think it’s crazy expensive.
If you have hood hybrid that actually has decent range on battery and has gas option it is pretty useful.
I just don’t think people who spend this kind of cash care about this kind of stuff. Meaning they don’t care about efficiency or whatver.
I think this car is just show case of BMW technology evolution.
My questions is: how much will M5 cost asumming it’s going to get this power train tech in it?
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      04-08-2023, 02:00 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
Have you considered they’re not actually fearful; and that a PHEV is indeed the best option for themselves and their living situation? It might be strange to you, and still be the best option for them. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.
My mother was in this situation and got a 330e. She regrets it. She much prefers the EV side of things though her EV only range is piddling due to there being less space for batteries in that car. She is doing whatever she can to only use EV and then found she has to force the car into ICE mode to start churning the gas in her tank to avoid it staying in there too long. Having tried the hybrid situation she much prefers BEV only and will likely turn the car over in the coming year or two and go full BEV. Btw she’s almost 80!
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      04-08-2023, 02:11 PM   #98
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SoCal has a bunch on lots 👀
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      04-08-2023, 02:28 PM   #99
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SoCal has a bunch on lots 👀
The day time running lights on top look cool. But the normal headlights on the bottom look so horrible to me. It just looks like an after thought when a designer realized you can’t fit all of the lights into the skinny top housing. That and the proportions of everywhere else look off, despite me liking box and angled cars usually. It looks like an X7 wearing an awkwardly oversized suit with huge shoulder pads to appear muscular. That blue color is nice tho.
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      04-08-2023, 02:29 PM   #100
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Another SoCal build...

This one looks decent in Davit Gray...
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      04-08-2023, 02:45 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82 View Post
100%. When they first announced this thing, it was my first thought - why would anyone prefer a complex drivetrain that adds so much weight?
Yeah - good thing BMW will only use this drivetrain in exotic cards like the XM and <checks notes> the upcoming M5...

Quote:
I still haven’t seen any of these reviewers explain what happens after a longer drive when the batteries run out. Basically the car must get sluggish and bogged down.
It's my understanding that this does not really happen. The EV range is capped so that some charge always stays in the battery, plus it recharges during braking, so in practice there is always ICE+EV power when needed, albeit possibly only for a short while, but enough to overtake etc.
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      04-08-2023, 02:55 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
Yeah - good thing BMW will only use this drivetrain in exotic cards like the XM and <checks notes> the upcoming M5...

It's my understanding that this does not really happen. The EV range is capped so that some charge always stays in the battery, plus it recharges during braking, so in practice there is always ICE+EV power when needed, albeit possibly only for a short while, but enough to overtake etc.
you're right about the M5, and probably this will roll downhill to the entire M range eventually

the AMG solution is worse in terms of weight penalty

Porsche will go BEV with the cayman and boxster at least, 911 TBD

the end is near for lightweight, ICE sports cars
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      04-08-2023, 03:29 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by raannathr333 View Post
This one looks decent in Davit Gray...
This photo’s angle looks like it’s taken with a fish eye lens but that’s literally just how the car looks normally. Yeah the colors at least are nice.
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      04-08-2023, 06:07 PM   #104
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      04-08-2023, 07:16 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
Yeah - good thing BMW will only use this drivetrain in exotic cards like the XM and <checks notes> the upcoming M5...



It's my understanding that this does not really happen. The EV range is capped so that some charge always stays in the battery, plus it recharges during braking, so in practice there is always ICE+EV power when needed, albeit possibly only for a short while, but enough to overtake etc.
Exactly why PHEVs have crap range as they have to keep 15-20% of the capacity to assist the ICE and get that torque fill. The car will maintain the battery level through regen braking. You can basically never deplete the battery.
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      04-08-2023, 07:47 PM   #106
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Looks like a very confused car
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      04-08-2023, 08:18 PM   #107
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This one looks decent in Davit Gray...
Agree 💯
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      04-08-2023, 08:51 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82 View Post
100%. When they first announced this thing, it was my first thought - why would anyone prefer a complex drivetrain that adds so much weight? This was Fisker’s approach in parallel to Tesla’s launch with BEV - and the hybrid technology failed (they failed for a number of reasons, to be fair, but PHEV was also the approach the incumbents took as they were very slow to migrate to BEV).

PHEV is even a headache in the short term as we’ve seen anectodally with friends who gave up on their X5 45e for the litany of problems …

And then even in the day-to-day: must plug in every night and must get gas regularly for the thirsty V8. Not to mention the recalls for fire risk….

I still haven’t seen any of these reviewers explain what happens after a longer drive when the batteries run out. Basically the car must get sluggish and bogged down.

There is an econtrol mode where you can drive without losing any state of charge. i.e. It won’t ever be sluggish or bog down.
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      04-09-2023, 12:32 AM   #109
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There is an econtrol mode where you can drive without losing any state of charge. i.e. It won’t ever be sluggish or bog down.
Is that something a press release just claims or is that an actual observed behavior from someone without any bias? Not all PHEVs are alike but basic logic states that if the battery is not being used/is actively being charged from the engine then clearly the performance will have a lower ceiling than when the battery+electic motor is being used in hand with the gas engine.

I think for most people’s daily cars a plug in hybrid actually makes sense because their range can be <40ish miles for a commute on almost all EV mode. I find some confusion with it in a full on M car tho.. you can harness electric power like a la Ferrari but to aim to make it an eco friendly car at that car weight.. it just doesn’t make sense and is trying to do too many things at once. What I’ve heard about the new C63 for example is reviewers don’t like 4 cylinders and also are aware of the car being heavier. The literal only plus side is the EV mode which is like 10 miles(?) can help with exiting your neighborhood without a loud exhaust.
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      04-09-2023, 06:09 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
Have you considered they’re not actually fearful; and that a PHEV is indeed the best option for themselves and their living situation? It might be strange to you, and still be the best option for them. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.
Yeah that’s fair. I just view it as a range anxiety thing. I get asked if the lower range with the M50 with the bigger wheels bothers me but the truth is that it’s never been an issue but that’s just based on my needs for the car.
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