[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by streborx

I'm not sure if BMW has available a comparable publication on automated driving, but Mercedes Benz has a brochure that can be downloaded at https://group.mercedes-benz.com/inno...e-pilot-2.html that describes the evolution and future timeline for its "Drive Pilot" autonomous driving (which is pretty much the same playbook everyone is using). Safety agencies (e.g., NHTSA is the U.S.) have heretofore bought into all this ADAS stuff without much blowback because auto manufacturers bill it all as safety related that compensates for human error. Teslas in particular are convincing consumers and regulators that it's not all just a slam dunk, and even early stage features such as lane keeping assist can have hazards under some driving circumstances (has anyone ever had LKA kick in on black ice?). I expect more regulatory scrutiny in the future, and the pace at which all this auto pilot tech gets rolled out will slow down, and require far more performance data to prove in. One thing everyone needs to remember is that fully auto-piloted cars will be programmed to obey to the letter all traffic laws -- full stops at stop signs, not a single mph over the posted speed limit, no right hand lane passing, no tailgating, etc. This alone will make auto pilot systems unappealing to most drivers I observe daily.

Cadillac has the hands-free system that can be used on the freeway..IIRC it's up to 85 mph! They have an explanation/details on their website:

https://www.cadillac.com/world-of-ca...n/super-cruise

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by Icecool

what about getting a fake hand ?

Try to tape one on the wheel...see if it works!

[PinkNinja400Guy]

Originally Posted by U235

Also, the BMW requires literally no steering wheel pressure. The Tesla and Volvo will often say to put hands on wheel or put steering input in if you're just lightly resting on the wheel, the BMW seems to never ask even with the lightest of touch. That said, it doesn't allow you any time of hands free.

I'm unsure if lane changing works via signaling, I felt it did one time, but couldn't tell if it was just a bend in the road and I ultimately took over as I didn't know if it was going to stop.

I'm just trying to understand the differences as it seems the basic functionality works at all speeds. I haven't done traffic jam assist which I assume is a more hands off experience. All that said, when we say "true hands off", can we quantify that? ... GM Super Cruise is hands off, but it uses detectors to ensure your eyes are on the road, so while hands free, it's not like go take a nap or turn around and handle kids in the back for a minute.

My Tesla tried to kill me no less than 5 times by literally making a random turn that would've put me into a wall. With the Tesla, I ended up just using Intelligent Cruise and Lane Keep and would drive it myself.

The BMW (& other various recent cars) have a capacitive touch sensor that detects the touch of your hands/fingers on the wheel. Older cars have a torque sensor which detect the weight of your hand pulling on the wheel.

For auto lane change you only need to push the turn signal stalk to the halfway momentary signal position. Once started, the screen will then show an arrow going into the adjacent lane. Auto lane change also has a minimum speed limit so generally only works on proper highways, is unreliable on rural roads. The cameras in the system often won't detect the lane next to you. If there are cars ahead/behind you in that adjacent lane, the radar will sense them and it generally works pretty well in that case. The system actually shows this, if you look carefully on the display, the lane next to your car will either be black (missing) or gray (detected). That's on my '22, maybe they've changed it a bit on the LCI.

The traffic jam assist is true hands free, it watches your eyes like SuperCruise.

Elon refuses to put radar in Teslas which is why their system sucks. Even a base model Honda Civic is better. Basic cars like a Civic have one radar sensor in front for the ADAS system. The X7 has one in front and one in each corner of the bumper. The LCI might have more.

[PinkNinja400Guy]

Lots of people talking about the wheel hands-on sensing here. Wrapping tape on the wheel won't work.

Wrapping a resistor/capacitor circuit over the wheel (like a wristband, not wrapped around the entire wheel) might work. The capacitive systems are getting pretty advanced, some of them have multiple capacitive mats embedded in different parts of the wheel and on the front/back sides of the rim, so it can detect where you're holding on. Maybe it'll be able to detect that the R-C circuit is too "perfect" and not a real human.

With the older torque-sensing systems you could do something like wedge an orange into one side of the wheel, the weight of it would be sensed as your hand holding on. Not sure if the torque-based system is still kept active in the newer cars with capacitive systems. But a capacitive trick (like the RC wristband) would be a much better and smaller solution.

I considered spending some time developing this (which should be fairly easy) and selling it to make $$$, but decided against it since I would probably be sued into oblivion if someone were to crash while using it.

https://www.microcontrollertips.com/...solutions-faq/

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by PinkNinja400Guy

Lots of people talking about the wheel hands-on sensing here. Wrapping tape on the wheel won't work.

Wrapping a resistor/capacitor circuit over the wheel (like a wristband, not wrapped around the entire wheel) might work. The capacitive systems are getting pretty advanced, some of them have multiple capacitive mats embedded in different parts of the wheel and on the front/back sides of the rim, so it can detect where you're holding on. Maybe it'll be able to detect that the R-C circuit is too "perfect" and not a real human.

With the older torque-sensing systems you could do something like wedge an orange into one side of the wheel, the weight of it would be sensed as your hand holding on. Not sure if the torque-based system is still kept active in the newer cars with capacitive systems. But a capacitive trick (like the RC wristband) would be a much better and smaller solution.

I considered spending some time developing this (which should be fairly easy) and selling it to make $$$, but decided against it since I would probably be sued into oblivion if someone were to crash while using it.

https://www.microcontrollertips.com/...solutions-faq/

That's interesting!

[BMW5and7]

Here is a formal answer "below" from BMW USA confirming that current X7 LCI is lacking the new hardware on the 7-sedan or iX. BMW USA also confirmed the the X7 will get a refresh or upgrade on the hardware to be similar to the of the 7-series. This includes Personal Pilot and a few other upgrades coming between 2023-2027. As I mentioned earlier, the current X7 service pack is just a carry over from pre-lci. It will be upgraded later around April 2023 with newer modules that will receive other upgrades related to new BMW technologies. Another secret: Lasers lights are also coming back to the X7. Let's keep limited to this info for now.

Thanks for Adam from providing this formal answer from BMW USA info:
"Hi Adam - We should first point out that BMW does not produce vehicles capable of autonomous driving. At this time, the Driver Assistance Professional Package for the new 2023 BMW X7 models does not include Highway Assistant, which will be introduced on the new BMW 7 Series and allows attentive hands-free driving at speeds up to 80 mph under suitable conditions. While we anticipate this feature will be available for order starting in the spring of 2023, it will not be possible or practical to retrofit or upgrade vehicles produced earlier. The system currently available for order in the 2023 BMW X7 allows attentive hands-free driving at speeds up to about 40 mph under suitable conditions."

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

Here is a formal answer "below" from BMW USA confirming that current X7 LCI is lacking the new hardware on the 7-sedan or iX. BMW USA also confirmed the the X7 will get a refresh or upgrade on the hardware to be similar to the of the 7-series. This includes Personal Pilot and a few other upgrades coming between 2023-2027. As I mentioned earlier, the current X7 service pack is just a carry over from pre-lci. It will be upgraded later around April 2023 with newer modules that will receive other upgrades related to new BMW technologies. Another secret: Lasers lights are also coming back to the X7. Let's keep limited to this info for now.

Thanks for Adam from providing this formal answer from BMW USA info:
"Hi Adam - We should first point out that BMW does not produce vehicles capable of autonomous driving. At this time, the Driver Assistance Professional Package for the new 2023 BMW X7 models does not include Highway Assistant, which will be introduced on the new BMW 7 Series and allows attentive hands-free driving at speeds up to 80 mph under suitable conditions. While we anticipate this feature will be available for order starting in the spring of 2023, it will not be possible or practical to retrofit or upgrade vehicles produced earlier. The system currently available for order in the 2023 BMW X7 allows attentive hands-free driving at speeds up to about 40 mph under suitable conditions."

Thank you so much. The Genius agent was obviously mistaken as he said that all it needs is a software update to get hands-free driving at speeds up to 80 mph. Anyway...it doesn't matter to me as I seldom use the freeway anyway!

[Al Pinã]

I'll be happy if they'd just sort out why the automatic braking kicks in for a fucking shadow in the road…

Happened to me several times already and it's nerve wracking!

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

I'll be happy if they'd just sort out why the automatic braking kicks in for a fucking shadow in the road…

Happened to me several times already and it's nerve wracking!

WOW! Did you ask the dealer? It could be something as simple as rebooting the system or a software upgrade...

[U235]

Originally Posted by PinkNinja400Guy

The BMW (& other various recent cars) have a capacitive touch sensor that detects the touch of your hands/fingers on the wheel. Older cars have a torque sensor which detect the weight of your hand pulling on the wheel.

For auto lane change you only need to push the turn signal stalk to the halfway momentary signal position. Once started, the screen will then show an arrow going into the adjacent lane. Auto lane change also has a minimum speed limit so generally only works on proper highways, is unreliable on rural roads. The cameras in the system often won't detect the lane next to you. If there are cars ahead/behind you in that adjacent lane, the radar will sense them and it generally works pretty well in that case. The system actually shows this, if you look carefully on the display, the lane next to your car will either be black (missing) or gray (detected). That's on my '22, maybe they've changed it a bit on the LCI.

The traffic jam assist is true hands free, it watches your eyes like SuperCruise.

Elon refuses to put radar in Teslas which is why their system sucks. Even a base model Honda Civic is better. Basic cars like a Civic have one radar sensor in front for the ADAS system. The X7 has one in front and one in each corner of the bumper. The LCI might have more.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to thoroughly and thoughtfully fill in the blanks. I really appreciate it. I’ll try the turn signal thing and <40 hands free and report back.

[streborx]

When I need to go "hands-free", I'll just hire a chauffeur, install a wet-bar and sit in the back seat with my Margarita (lol).

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by streborx

When I need to go "hands-free", I'll just hire a chauffeur, install a wet-bar and sit in the back seat with my Margarita (lol).

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by Brigitte

WOW! Did you ask the dealer? It could be something as simple as rebooting the system or a software upgrade...

Apparently it's just a kink in the system. If the sun's shining just right and casting a dark shadow onto the road from a tree or building the car mistakes it for a obstacle in the road and slams on the brakes. It's gotten to the point now where I just long-press the safety button and turn all that shit off.

Looks like Bimmer owners aren't the only ones:

https://www.techworm.net/2022/09/tes...m-braking.html

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

Apparently it's just a kink in the system. If the sun's shining just right and casting a dark shadow onto the road from a tree or building the car mistakes it for a obstacle in the road and slams on the brakes. It's gotten to the point now where I just long-press the safety button and turn all that shit off.

Looks like Bimmer owners aren't the only ones:

https://www.techworm.net/2022/09/tes...m-braking.html

So the car stops due to an image/shadow. It should have been designed to only recognize 3-dimensional shapes!!

[malba2366]

Originally Posted by JJ(BM)Dubya

My Telluride has it but not for lane changes. It’s really nice to have if you need to deal with kids and their many wants, deal with an email or just want a bit of a break. Yesterday I fully took my eyes and hands off the road at 75 for a good 5+ seconds while trying to dig out some food for my little one. It slows down immediately if someone comes into your lane and speeds up again when the coast is all clear. Steers into corners nicely as well, although it takes some getting used to.

I love driving too much to just totally disengage so it’s not something I use for long or very negligently beyond a few seconds at a time, but it’s great tech for road trips, for sure.

The Current X7 has the same thing, but above 40mph it will start prompting you to put your hands on the wheel. AFAIK the Kia will do that too, it will not let you continue to use the system if you do not put your hands back on the steering wheel after a preset period of time.

The refresh X7 is going to have a system that allows you to have your hands off the steering wheel below 80mph.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by malba2366

The Current X7 has the same thing, but above 40mph it will start prompting you to put your hands on the wheel. AFAIK the Kia will do that too, it will not let you continue to use the system if you do not put your hands back on the steering wheel after a preset period of time.

The refresh X7 is going to have a system that allows you to have your hands off the steering wheel below 80mph.

How do you like the current hands-free driving system? Is it to be trusted? I must admit it will be very difficult for me to completely trust it. I think it will make me nervous...

[Bigrahizzle]

Originally Posted by Brigitte

How do you like the current hands-free driving system? Is it to be trusted? I must admit it will be very difficult for me to completely trust it. I think it will make me nervous...

It's really good tbh. I used cruised control today and barely kept a finger on the wheel and the controlled everything like a dream.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by Bigrahizzle

It's really good tbh. I used cruised control today and barely kept a finger on the wheel and the controlled everything like a dream.

Fantastic! You made feel much better about the hands-free driving system

[BigWagonFan]

BMW5and7 thanks for your great investigation on the Highway Assistant / Motorway Assistant. It's really disappointing what BMW did to those early X7 LCI cars.

Things seem to get confirmed by BMWBLOG:
BMW X7 Facelift Gets 40 MPH of Hands-Free Driving but It Could Get Even Better Soon
though they seem to treat that current fake-Highway Assistant as something new:

The addition of Highway Assistant, which the X7 shares with the new 7 Series, now offers fully hands off driving at speeds up to 40 mph.

Could anyone find actual recording of Highway Assistant / Motorway Assistant? From 7 / i7 maybe? So we at least can know what to expect from 4/2023?

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by Brigitte

Fantastic! You made feel much better about the hands-free driving system

I drove through two states North/South Carolina at 85+mph with barely touching the steering wheel on i95. I used my knee to touch the steering wheel and the system worked great even auto passing using the turn signal stalk.

Look how well it plots the other cars on the screen.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by BigWagonFan

BMW5and7 thanks for your great investigation on the Highway Assistant / Motorway Assistant. It's really disappointing what BMW did to those early X7 LCI cars.

Things seem to get confirmed by BMWBLOG:
BMW X7 Facelift Gets 40 MPH of Hands-Free Driving but It Could Get Even Better Soon
though they seem to treat that current fake-Highway Assistant as something new:


Could anyone find actual recording of Highway Assistant / Motorway Assistant? From 7 / i7 maybe? So we at least can know what to expect from 4/2023?

You are most welcome.
The 7-series has the highway assistant in the build sheet formally. It has the hardware already. I don't think anyone has the 7-sedan in his garage by now. However, as I said, it is confirmed to have the upgraded hardware, yet with a few more features than the iX. This also includes urban and rural areas drive assist. Here is a photo for one slides from an internal presentation. This should be similar to what we can expect coming for the X7 around April. Traffic Light Recognition is also part of the plan. Here is a photo from an internal slide.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

I drove through two states North/South Carolina at 85+mph with barely touching the steering wheel on i95. I used my knee to touch the steering wheel and the system worked great even auto passing using the turn signal stalk.

Look how well it plots the other cars on the screen.

WOW! Thank you for sharing this