[joeyjoejoejr]

Originally Posted by srosenj

It's not an 'actual M' car, true. But, for shits and giggles, name how it's 'nothing like an actual M car', given the components and systems including engine, brakes, suspension, differential, chasis, exhaust, and tech are the same components. Not as much as you think, but let's see. Other than where it is built and who it is built by, I am only coming up with 1 or 2 things...specific engine tuning for racetrack and forged wheels.

Hahah guy, are you trolling us here?!? This would be like…🤯

I couldn’t imagine a better topic to troll a bunch of car dorks!

[bimmerdiesel]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

Well said. Additionally, shared components is something we see between all kind of vehicles regardless of which category they do belong to, and it does not make any vehicle closer or more far away from another tier. The third category is probably where I'd be satisfied that my BMW Falls within, and I think that most BMW consumers are okay with the fact that the X7 is "nothing like an actual M car" to it's fully capacity because their is an XB7 if anyone wanted to take that route for that reason. There is an XB7 for a reason.

XB7 is tuned by Alpina. I don’t believe it is necessarily a M car either. Alpina cars have cosmetic changes and powertrain enhancements. BMW USA does not sell a lot of different Alpina cars but Alpina has bunch of models across whole BMW line up. e.g 3 series, 4 series X3 and X4. These have their own M cars too.

Again OP is excited about his/her purchase and we should just be welcoming rather than fact checking new owners to death. I have noticed similar threads in past and we get side tracked quite a bit.

[BigEvan1923]

does the car put a smile on your face after putting a hole in your wallet...that's all that ///Matters

[gsobol]

Historically, with the exception of M1 and now XM there were no true M cars (designed and produced by M).

M designated cars were always tuners (by M division) - what that means, certain components were tuned, updated or upgraded, and some exterior and interior body elements were altered either for practical or visual reasons.

Following this thought process, anything could have had M designation as long as it shared some components or accessories from the M division (at least to marketing boffins at BMW).

So by extension, you can call some of these M-lite (just accessories, or visual elements), M-standard (some performance upgrades) , and M-heavy (serious performance upgrades - usually considered true M).

I would designate X7 M50i as a M-standard since there are some specific performance upgrades done to the engine (even though it's not the S engine), suspension, transmission and brakes - just compare it to X7 50i with similar setup. Further improvements have been done to M60i LCI with the upgrade to S engine in line with what M division would use in their tuned vehicles.

I don't think other manufacturers do things that much differently. Yes, BMW designations should be clearer, but I do think that real gearheads will already know all they need to about a particular model. To others, appearance is all they care about - and they will be willing to fork over more money for some trinkets and the M badge.

So if you want a real M SUV, there is only one - XM

[Saejin]

For very M badge that’s added to your build, you get an extra 10hp…haha

All jokes aside, is there anyone on here that’s going to tune or chip the S68 motor in the M60i?

Probably need to start another thread on that if one doesn’t exist already.

[bagekko]

Does the M60 S68 engine have individual throttle bodies? If not then definitely not an M engine. Also no one has parts catalog for the M60 yet but I would guess it uses all the same suspension, drivetrain, and brake components as all the other X7s with Msport, adaptive, IAS, Msport brakes. Only thing that may differ is some software due to power increase over M50. There is only two sets of M xDrive systems, one for the smaller vehicles and another for the larger. I highly doubt any material parts have changed between the M50 & M60 besides adding the 48v system and getting the next gen engine which happens in normal lifecycles. The S68 to me is between a M engine and normal, like the 1M & first gen M2 engines.

Its crazy how many parts are now shared across series, all part of the BMW over cost cutting parts reduction, it used to be almost nothing was shared. The part numbers may differ buy the LCI F90 M5 got the same GA8HP76X transmission already in the M50, software is likely the only difference.

[srosenj]

It's an M engine. It is the ONLY V8 M engine now going forward. That's a major point of the whole post guys! Of course it will be tuned out on other vehicles.

Besides the mild electric power boost of 12hp, mainly for torque, the S68 in the X7 M60i has upgraded turbocharging with a blow-off valve. There is a newly engineered oil pump and a lighter oil sump to bolster the powertrain’s efficiency. Now, the eight-cylinder utilizes bank-symmetrical turbos, a cross-bank exhaust manifold, and external engine oil cooling. The M50i did not have these.

Originally Posted by bagekko

Does the M60 S68 engine have individual throttle bodies? If not then definitely not an M engine. Also no one has parts catalog for the M60 yet but I would guess it uses all the same suspension, drivetrain, and brake components as all the other X7s with Msport, adaptive, IAS, Msport brakes. Only thing that may differ is some software due to power increase over M50. There is only two sets of M xDrive systems, one for the smaller vehicles and another for the larger. I highly doubt any material parts have changed between the M50 & M60 besides adding the 48v system and getting the next gen engine which happens in normal lifecycles. The S68 to me is between a M engine and normal, like the 1M & first gen M2 engines.

Its crazy how many parts are now shared across series, all part of the BMW over cost cutting parts reduction, it used to be almost nothing was shared. The part numbers may differ buy the LCI F90 M5 got the same GA8HP76X transmission already in the M50, software is likely the only difference.

[srosenj]

Thanks, for the sentiment, appreciated. The title was a joke for shock value...we all know there doesn't need to be a 1000hp 7-passanger SUV. I have had and continue to have a few Teslas, so trust me, I know. I'd rather have the handling in something like this than crazy hp. If you have been following X7 over the years there have been many (including auto trade) that have asked will there be a BMW X7M. Answer was no, and for good reason, should really stop at X5M. But, then you have quite a few upgrades outside of typical M performance territory blurring the lines. I'd say a proper M engine inside takes things up a notch, even if it is from a more technical point of view. Actually, not sure that has been done before on any M performance vehicle.

Sure, I am happy about the selection, cross shopped several SUVs including a tier above the Germans, and I don't believe any company is exceeding the value of the X7 for the money. Never thought or intended this to be an X7 M. Did want to discuss the value and changes with the evolution though...

Side note, long time member and BMW owner. My account was snoozed for inactivity and needed an email update. When that happens, you start over I suppose.

Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel

XB7 is tuned by Alpina. I don’t believe it is necessarily a M car either. Alpina cars have cosmetic changes and powertrain enhancements. BMW USA does not sell a lot of different Alpina cars but Alpina has bunch of models across whole BMW line up. e.g 3 series, 4 series X3 and X4. These have their own M cars too.

Again OP is excited about his/her purchase and we should just be welcoming rather than fact checking new owners to death. I have noticed similar threads in past and we get side tracked quite a bit.

[M_Chronos]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Does the M60 S68 engine have individual throttle bodies? If not then definitely not an M engine.

????

Engine is valvetronic along with a bunch of other current / recent M engines

[bagekko]

The S63 is still in production, like all M engines there will be versions/generations of them, when the next Gen M5/M8 comes along it will not use the same version of the S68 is in the M60. I bet the S68v1 is actually just the N68 called an S for marketing purposes. S68v2 will be a true M engine and used in the next gens M5/8/X5/X7 as true M versions not a M50/60.

BMW releasing an S version of an engine before the regular version has never happened, its all nonsense. Of course it has new bells and whistles, its their next gen V8, has no meaning for ///M.

Originally Posted by srosenj

It's an M engine. It is the ONLY V8 M engine now going forward. That's a major point of the whole post guys! Of course it will be tuned out on other vehicles.

Besides the mild electric power boost of 12hp, mainly for torque, the S68 in the X7 M60i has upgraded turbocharging with a blow-off valve. There is a newly engineered oil pump and a lighter oil sump to bolster the powertrain’s efficiency. Now, the eight-cylinder utilizes bank-symmetrical turbos, a cross-bank exhaust manifold, and external engine oil cooling. The M50i did not have these.

[srosenj]

A reference link that describes the changes. You will see, it is not just for marketing purposes, though I do agree it came about due to V8 engine consolidation. While you may still find vehicle "leftover" with a S63, BMW announced the S68 will be their sole V8 engine for new V8M and non-M vehicles. There should not be another "version", but they would be able to tune the heck out of it, especially given the improvements made over the now Range Rover N series engine. Hope this helps clarify the differences.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/12/bmw-b58-s68-engines/

Originally Posted by bagekko

The S63 is still in production, like all M engines there will be versions/generations of them, when the next Gen M5/M8 comes along it will not use the same version of the S68 is in the M60. I bet the S68v1 is actually just the N68 called an S for marketing purposes. S68v2 will be a true M engine and used in the next gens M5/8/X5/X7 as true M versions not a M50/60.

BMW releasing an S version of an engine before the regular version has never happened, its all nonsense. Of course it has new bells and whistles, its their next gen V8, has no meaning for ///M.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by srosenj

A reference link that describes the changes. You will see, it is not just for marketing purposes. // BMW announced the S68 will be their sole V8 engine for new V8M and non-M vehicles.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/12/bmw-b58-s68-engines/

The link above is not from BMW. For clarity and to avoid false info or assumptions in case people assume this is formal BMW news, the link is for independent and private magazine website that in no way affiliated or owned by BMW USA and/or BMW AG, and/or any of its subsidiaries. All opinions expressed there do not necessarily reflect those of BMW USA and/or BMW AG, and/or any of its subsidiaries. In fact, that source is a (magazine). A magazine that delivers media and marketing content. It does not take away from their reputation as a which to me is unknown, but it is worth mentioning that this is a media magazine, not BMW. I'd also make a note that there are a few mistakes and false info in the narrative in that magazine (one example include that the S68 has more* power, which is not true for the X7 knowing that the X7 N63 engine has the same exact power).

One thing that I found interesting in the post is that they had mentioned that this engine will make it's way to other M-performance vehicles such as the X5 (as predicted, NOT only for M-vehicles, and certainly not in it's current spec's for M-vehicles. As bagekko said, likely this is just the S68V1 whereas M-vehicles (i.e.: XM) are getting the full M-spec'd engine as we already see on the XM (20% more hp). Quoting from the article ("This new V8 will also be used in // facelifted X5 M60i. Naturally, purists might be upset by BMW’s choice to use an M-specific engine in M-lite cars. But, this was likely a simple business decision: the new engines are EURO 7 compliant. And with the uncertain future of combustion engines, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to have two separate V8 powerplants."" The author said it is simply a business decision: 1. for emissions reason as I stated a few days ago (euro 7 compliance), and 2. to avoid having two separate V8 engines for M-lite M-performance vs M-cars (which also many members stated). Much easier to have the same core, one de-tuned for M-performance car, and then the same core with it's full spec'd M-stiff for XM and true M-cars.

Here is another article by the same magazine talking about a "Detuned S68" the for lesser models (non-M). Quote ("Rather than build two all-new engines, one for the X7 M60i and one for other proper M Division products in the future, it’s easier and cheaper to just develop one engine and detune it for lesser models")
Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/15/b...vision-engine/

Another fact, why did BMW decide to not continue with the N63 "or even S63" and instead went with the S68 design; Quote: ("The BMW N63 and its S63 sibling are becoming unusable, due to stricter Euro 7 emissions regulations. So BMW needed a new engine for those cars") hence came the concept of a single S68 engine, in one form detuned, and in another form fully spec'd to M standards and power. I guess things are becoming much more clear now.

[bagekko]

Perhaps they are not going to classify the 68 as N & S. But 100% no way the S68v1 in the X7 M60 is going to be the same one in next gen M5/8/etc. Instead of N&S they will have S68v1 (Non-M) and S68v2 (M) versions as current production models at the same time. Calling the X7 M60 engine S68 is marketing BS.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Perhaps they are not going to classify the 68 as N & S. But 100% no way the S68v1 in the X7 M60 is going to be the same one in next gen M5/8/etc. Instead of N&S they will have S68v1 (Non-M) and S68v2 (M) versions as current production models at the same time. Calling the X7 M60 engine S68 is marketing BS.

I agree (on the Non-M vs M different "specs"). That's already confirmed. If you look at the XM specs, the vehicles comes with the S68 core, but with nearly 20% more power!. The use of the same engine "core" for M-performance and M-vehicles is (as some articles referenced) a business decision driven by: 1. Emissions (S68 is already compliance with some new European regulations); and 2. design simplification (one core for all) given the uncertainty of the combustion engines in general (focusing one one, is better than offer many). The world and companies are already shifting R&D focus and resources away to other topics (EV R&D unfortunately is the priority).

Quoting from a magazine article by bmwblog
("This new V8 will also be used in future M60i models, like the facelifted X5 M60i. Naturally, purists might be upset by BMW’s choice to use an M-specific engine in M-lite cars. But, this was likely a simple business decision: the new engines are EURO 7 compliant [Emissions]. And with the uncertain future of combustion engines, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to have two separate V8 powerplants [one for all V8s, single V8 core design].)" Another article referenced the following - Quote: ("The BMW N63 and its S63 sibling are becoming unusable, due to stricter Euro 7 emissions regulations. So BMW needed a new engine for those cars").

[srosenj]

its called tuning

Originally Posted by bagekko

Perhaps they are not going to classify the 68 as N & S. But 100% no way the S68v1 in the X7 M60 is going to be the same one in next gen M5/8/etc. Instead of N&S they will have S68v1 (Non-M) and S68v2 (M) versions as current production models at the same time. Calling the X7 M60 engine S68 is marketing BS.

[srosenj]

And for the record, the information in the link provided utilizes specs directly from BMW, along with commentary from engineering. It is a credible and legit industry source for reliable information.

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

The link above is not from BMW. For clarity and to avoid false info or assumptions in case people assume this is formal BMW news, the link is for independent and private magazine website that in no way affiliated or owned by BMW USA and/or BMW AG, and/or any of its subsidiaries. All opinions expressed there do not necessarily reflect those of BMW USA and/or BMW AG, and/or any of its subsidiaries. In fact, that source is a (magazine). A magazine that delivers media and marketing content. It does not take away from their reputation as a which to me is unknown, but it is worth mentioning that this is a media magazine, not BMW. I'd also make a note that there are a few mistakes and false info in the narrative in that magazine (one example include that the S68 has more* power, which is not true for the X7 knowing that the X7 N63 engine has the same exact power).

One thing that I found interesting in the post is that they had mentioned that this engine will make it's way to other M-performance vehicles such as the X5 (as predicted, NOT only for M-vehicles, and certainly not in it's current spec's for M-vehicles. As bagekko said, likely this is just the S68V1 whereas M-vehicles (i.e.: XM) are getting the full M-spec'd engine as we already see on the XM (20% more hp). Quoting from the article ("This new V8 will also be used in // facelifted X5 M60i. Naturally, purists might be upset by BMW’s choice to use an M-specific engine in M-lite cars. But, this was likely a simple business decision: the new engines are EURO 7 compliant. And with the uncertain future of combustion engines, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to have two separate V8 powerplants."" The author said it is simply a business decision: 1. for emissions reason as I stated a few days ago (euro 7 compliance), and 2. to avoid having two separate V8 engines for M-lite M-performance vs M-cars (which also many members stated). Much easier to have the same core, one de-tuned for M-performance car, and then the same core with it's full spec'd M-stiff for XM and true M-cars.

Here is another article by the same magazine talking about a "Detuned S68" the for lesser models (non-M). Quote ("Rather than build two all-new engines, one for the X7 M60i and one for other proper M Division products in the future, it’s easier and cheaper to just develop one engine and detune it for lesser models")
Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/15/b...vision-engine/

Another fact, why did BMW decide to not continue with the N63 "or even S63" and instead went with the S68 design; Quote: ("The BMW N63 and its S63 sibling are becoming unusable, due to stricter Euro 7 emissions regulations. So BMW needed a new engine for those cars") hence came the concept of a single S68 engine, in one form detuned, and in another form fully spec'd to M standards and power. I guess things are becoming much more clear now.

[bagekko]

OMG Really!?!

Originally Posted by srosenj

its called tuning

[blutob2]

Man this popcorn is freaking amazing! I've had 2 bags in the last 2 days.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by srosenj

I understand the ideology quite well… I’ll leave it there.

You obviously don’t.

Are you sure you don’t have a new ID because you were making stupid comments and got banned on the old one?

[joeyjoejoejr]

Originally Posted by srosenj

And for the record, the information in the link provided utilizes specs directly from BMW, along with commentary from engineering. It is a credible and legit industry source for reliable information.

Just out of curiosity how old a guy(I’m assuming you’re a guy and if you’re not I’m sorry)are you?

This engine is MAYBE(because we don’t fucking know yet)
a bit closer to a M engine than the Mercedes M176 is to their AMG M177. Both were developed by AMG but one is built by hand, makes less power, I don’t know what else but it’s a bit. I have a feeling they’ll introduce the actual M S68 with the Label Red XM later next year. Why do I have that feeling? Cuz the V8 in the regular XM makes less power than in the M60i. So again…no one knows shit but this is pretty fun…and funny.


So be excited for your car and go drive it. Better yet go drive your 720s instead. Go put so many miles on it your insurance goes up.

[joeyjoejoejr]

Originally Posted by mjr24

You obviously don’t.

Are you sure you don’t have a new ID because you were making stupid comments and got banned on the old one?

He clearly was. Hahaha

[srosenj]

Out of curiosity how did you know I drive a 720?

Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr

Just out of curiosity how old a guy(I’m assuming you’re a guy and if you’re not I’m sorry)are you?

This engine is MAYBE(because we don’t fucking know yet)
a bit closer to a M engine than the Mercedes M176 is to their AMG M177. Both were developed by AMG but one is built by hand, makes less power, I don’t know what else but it’s a bit. I have a feeling they’ll introduce the actual M S68 with the Label Red XM later next year. Why do I have that feeling? Cuz the V8 in the regular XM makes less power than in the M60i. So again…no one knows shit but this is pretty fun…and funny.


So be excited for your car and go drive it. Better yet go drive your 720s instead. Go put so many miles on it your insurance goes up.