[grannyknot]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

OP drives a Z4 and is a poster on a BMW forum. Why would he drive an Outback? An asshole comment yes, stupid no.

Did you bother to read the title of the thread you are commenting on?
The OP is asking for suggestions for a vehicle to get through heavy winter conditions, he's not asking about a driver enthusiasts car, he already owns one.
Yes, completely stupid.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by jmg

Subaru Outback sounds like it checks most of those boxes, being more a wagon rather than an SUV. Enough room for wheels and tires and 2 passengers. Also consider a roof rack if you want to be economical with space. Get the "Wilderness" of you want a bit more:


[img]https://www.subaru.com/content/dam/s...derness_08.jpg[/img]

horrid car to drive with no directional stability and poor stability especially when turning due to narrow body and tires combined with floaty suspension. cheap plastic everywhere … Walmart would build them better

X3, q5, a4-a6 wagon any day over that pos

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Mavus

horrid car to drive with no directional stability and poor stability especially when turning due to narrow body and tires combined with floaty suspension. cheap plastic everywhere … Walmart would build them better

X3, q5, a4-a6 wagon any day over that pos

OP has a $47k price cap and this is for snow, not setting lap records at the 'Ring. Regardless, I wouldn't call the suspension "floaty", it handles pretty good considering the ground clearance. Also, plastic is cheap to replace when you mutilate it with your gear. Again, if you want to go to the mall and impress people, there are better options, but if you want to actually use the car as intended, it's a valid option.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by jmg

OP has a $47k price cap and this is for snow, not setting lap records at the 'Ring. Regardless, I wouldn't call the suspension "floaty", it handles pretty good considering the ground clearance. Also, plastic is cheap to replace when you mutilate it with your gear. Again, if you want to go to the mall and impress people, there are better options, but if you want to actually use the car as intended, it's a valid option.

better option to get Mazda or Honda, Toyota than the unstable Subbie, on the street and terrain. I used one for 2y Outback 3.6R. Not making it up. The best thing about it was storage room end engine was ok but everything else horrid. Constant electrical gremlins and Subaru couldn't help trubleshoot. The brakes were simply dangerous and sevrely undersized. What they did is simply lifted the station wagon and put on narrow tires. One of the worst cars from over 20+ models. Why include snarky track comment?

[stein_325i]

I personally don't understand Subaru's hype at all. Would rather have a much nicer Mazda. Honestly the new CX-50 looks like a better Subaru.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Mavus

better option to get Mazda or Honda, Toyota than the unstable Subbie, on the street and terrain. I used one for 2y Outback 3.6R. Not making it up. The best thing about it was storage room end engine was ok but everything else horrid. Constant electrical gremlins and Subaru couldn't help trubleshoot. The brakes were simply dangerous and sevrely undersized. What they did is simply lifted the station wagon and put on narrow tires. One of the worst cars from over 20+ models. Why include snarky track comment?

Sorry, not meant to be snarky, not trying to "look smart", you mentioned handling and I offered my opinion based on what the OP wanted, which didn't include handing. I made a joke about the Ring, but I don't think it translated well over text.

Originally Posted by tranquility

I've been flirting w the idea of getting a dedicated vehicle whenever there are more serious snowstorm conditions, so wondering if you guys can suggest some vehicles? As an idea of what I would've wanted, it's the Suzuki Jimny, but unfortunately it's not available in Canada.

my criteria:
.new
.AWD
.relatively COMPACT (so no Broncos, Hummers lol, etc, and no pickups), so small SUVs, CUVs, maybe even coupes, sedans or wagons if very capable
.ideally DCT but AT is acceptable
.must be able to carry 4 tires/wheels and at least 2 ppl at same time
.roughly CAD60,000 MSRP (~USD47,000)

That's all I can think of right now, TIA.

I suggested the Outback because it checked the most boxes. The 4 tires and 2 people is tricky because most small SUV's sacrifice cargo for passenger space, or have a sloped rear lid to limit stacking tires. At the time I also misinterpreted it as 2 passengers, so I was considering vehicles that would fit 4 wheels without putting both rear seats down. I think the Outbacks wagon shape could squeeze in 4 tires because of its shape. I googled it and found this thread which confirmed it.


I would have certainly suggested a Toyota 4Runner, but that's a 4WD vehicle, not an AWD vehicle. It's also not what I would consider compact, but he did say he would consider a wagon, which to me brought up the Outback. The RAV4 seemed too small to fit 4 tires and 2 passengers. Same for the Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-5.

I would actually also suggest a Mazda CX-9 AWD model. It's the right price, but it's much bigger than the Outback and isn't compact.

Regarding the X3 xDrive30i, this would be my choice as well, but according to this thread the tires won't fit without the rear seats down. Like I said, I misinterpreted his original post as 2 passengers, not 2 people (driver+1), so I didn't suggest the X3 at the time. Re-reading his post, I would include the X3, maybe even the Mazda CX-5.

I should state that I have owned 3 Subaru Foresters and loved them all for what they were. They don't have the curb appeal as an X3 or A4 Wagon, but they served as great family roadtrip vehicles with light off-roading. Driving the Outback it didn't seem that far off from our old Foresters, and I didn't think it was unstable, but maybe that's because we replaced it with a car that actually does handle like crap, our VW Atlas 4Motion. The Atlas handles horribly and the suspension is floaty and it's my biggest complaint about the car.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I personally don't understand Subaru's hype at all. Would rather have a much nicer Mazda. Honestly the new CX-50 looks like a better Subaru.

I have a long history with Subaru, so maybe I'm biased

I also like that I can be very rough with our old Subarus. I don't care about dings, dirt, scratches etc... it's liberating when you just see it as a tool.

Honestly, this is the first I'm hearing of this CX-50! That's actually looks very nice!

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by jmg

Sorry, not meant to be snarky, not trying to "look smart", you mentioned handling and I offered my opinion based on what the OP wanted, which didn't include handing. I made a joke about the Ring, but I don't think it translated well over text.



I suggested the Outback because it checked the most boxes. The 4 tires and 2 people is tricky because most small SUV's sacrifice cargo for passenger space, or have a sloped rear lid to limit stacking tires. At the time I also misinterpreted it as 2 passengers, so I was considering vehicles that would fit 4 wheels without putting both rear seats down. I think the Outbacks wagon shape could squeeze in 4 tires because of its shape. I googled it and found this thread which confirmed it.


I would have certainly suggested a Toyota 4Runner, but that's a 4WD vehicle, not an AWD vehicle. It's also not what I would consider compact, but he did say he would consider a wagon, which to me brought up the Outback. The RAV4 seemed too small to fit 4 tires and 2 passengers. Same for the Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-5.

I would actually also suggest a Mazda CX-9 AWD model. It's the right price, but it's much bigger than the Outback and isn't compact.

Regarding the X3 xDrive30i, this would be my choice as well, but according to this thread the tires won't fit without the rear seats down. Like I said, I misinterpreted his original post as 2 passengers, not 2 people (driver+1), so I didn't suggest the X3 at the time. Re-reading his post, I would include the X3, maybe even the Mazda CX-5.

I should state that I have owned 3 Subaru Foresters and loved them all for what they were. They don't have the curb appeal as an X3 or A4 Wagon, but they served as great family roadtrip vehicles with light off-roading. Driving the Outback it didn't seem that far off from our old Foresters, and I didn't think it was unstable, but maybe that's because we replaced it with a car that actually does handle like crap, our VW Atlas 4Motion. The Atlas handles horribly and the suspension is floaty and it's my biggest complaint about the car.

Hey, tx very much to you and others for your nice analysis/thoughts/advice. If I ever get it, I need to payback you guys somehow.

[Sedoy]

2022 Ford Maverick XLT 2.0T AWD with a tune, 2" lift, and 32" tires (~32K) (it's not really a pick-up )
and 1 Gen Subaru BRZ for fun ($15K) = $47K:

[tom2021]

Hyundai Santa Cruz. Looks cool. They claim is not a pick up.

[pokerface]

I like the X3/Q5 category. But when you say “snowmageddon” I’m thinking something in a heavier weight class and not really just a cold weather vehicle.

4Runner might be in the budget. 4 wheel drive, ride height, reliability, towing….

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I've been flirting w the idea of getting a dedicated vehicle whenever there are more serious snowstorm conditions, so wondering if you guys can suggest some vehicles? As an idea of what I would've wanted, it's the Suzuki Jimny, but unfortunately it's not available in Canada.

my criteria:
.new
.AWD
.relatively COMPACT (so no Broncos, Hummers lol, etc, and no pickups), so small SUVs, CUVs, maybe even coupes, sedans or wagons if very capable
.ideally DCT but AT is acceptable
.must be able to carry 4 tires/wheels and at least 2 ppl at same time
.roughly CAD60,000 MSRP (~USD47,000)

That's all I can think of right now, TIA.

$47,000 is a lot of money to spend on something that you will only use what, 3 weeks out of the year maybe a month and a half?
I would approach it differently. You can find a cheap Audi Allroad, here's one for under $10K USD with 53K miles.
https://www.audiseattle.com/used/Aud...49187a7526.htm
Buy it, get a set of snow tires, done. You just saved yourself $37K USD.
Or...
I honestly think a Golf R and a set of Blizzaks would fit the bill as you're going to have a vehicle you can enjoy driving 365 days out of the year and put on the snows tires when you actually need them. The only real downside is that you have to put the rear seats down to fit 4 wheels and tires, so you would be able to only fit 2 people including yourself in that particular situation.

In the snow, even my wife's FWD GTI on Blizzaks gets the job done in virtually all conditions.
Again, I think you've got plenty of options. If you get the Allroad, I want a commission, tell them to send me a mug lol.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Well, that's actually my pt, to get something totally different and that's not a sportscar/sporty car and to be best prepared if some freak snowmageddon occurred.

My wife drove a Subaru Forester for many years and was the vehicle we had during the infamous 'snowmageddon' in DC. We had our less than a year old daughter in the back and we didn't get stuck and we made it home on regular all season tires. The road was littered with all sorts of SUVs and cars that could not move. 2 years ago on the way to Snowshoe in WV, we got hit with a snowstorm. A tree fell and blocked traffic. Also many cars and SUVs were sliding into ditches and some hit the guard rail (including our Cayenne at the time). The guy who came to remove the tree had to drive along the side in the storm and yes, was in a Forester….

They are boring, but get the job done.

[Sedoy]

As you probably know it always comes down to what kind of tires they got. And most Subarus are being cheap and lightweight all-time AWD cars with narrow tires, this gives them a huge advantage over say something like 4800 lbs. Cayenne with stupid 325/30/21 tires in the snow... I swear my old Civic with narrow 185/65/15 all-seasons was amazing in snow.

Originally Posted by FCX5

My wife drove a Subaru Forester for many years and was the vehicle we had during the infamous 'snowmageddon' in DC. We had our less than a year old daughter in the back and we didn't get stuck and we made it home on regular all season tires. The road was littered with all sorts of SUVs and cars that could not move. 2 years ago on the way to Snowshoe in WV, we got hit with a snowstorm. A tree fell and blocked traffic. Also many cars and SUVs were sliding into ditches and some hit the guard rail (including our Cayenne at the time). The guy who came to remove the tree had to drive along the side in the storm and yes, was in a Forester….

They are boring, but get the job done.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

As you probably know it always comes down to what kind of tires they got. And most Subarus are being cheap and lightweight all-time AWD cars with narrow tires, this gives them a huge advantage over say something like 4800 lbs. Cayenne with stupid 325/30/21 tires in the snow... I swear my old Civic with narrow 185/65/15 all-seasons was amazing in snow.

I agree. Probably the lightweight and thin tires coupled with their simple AWD system probably helps Subarus more than any special engineering. However, whatever they have done, it ends up being good for the snow, but terrible for regular road trips. JMHO

[spammysammich]

I got to spend some time in my niece's newly acquired Mazda CX-5 and I feel like it was very well put together, not terribly boring for a crossover, and the infotainment/interior trim was nice for the price point. She mentioned that it CRUSHED it in our recent winter storms in the seattle area. And she's not that experienced in snowy conditions, CX-5 gave her a lot of confidence and security.

[bariszop]

I love my Grand Cherokee. Much nicer interiors than people give credit for and the best there is in the snow. wendy's lunch time surveyzop.com

[XutvJet]

I'm not sure what issues Mavus had with his 3.6R Outback, but our experience with our 2015 Outback 3.6R is completely different. We've owned the car since new in January 2015. It's NEVER been in the shop for work or a warranty repair. It is on it's 3rd battery now, largely because Subaru underspec'd the capacity for the amount of electronic equipment on the car. We learned that we need to put it on a trickle charger occasionally. The fit and finish on the Outback is just like anything else in it's class (it was a $32K car in 2015).

I put 17X8 Method Rally MR50 wheels and a set of all terrain tires on it about 2.5 years ago. The thing is an absolute beast in the snow and offroad (with care). We've been all around the Colorado mountains in it. It's very stable on and offroad and even when loaded with 4 people, the back full, a roof top carrier, and a hitch with 70lbs of camping gear in it. It gets 28mpg loaded up like that too going nearly 80mph.

With respect to snow traction, I find quite impressive with the all terrain tires. It definitely has a bit of RWD basis in the snow which i much prefer.

With respect to carrying tires/wheels, I could fit my M235 wheels/tires lined up side to side with the back seat still up.

My biggest gripe with the Outback is the CVT. It's still one of the best CVTs I've ever driven and it has fake shifts during normal driving which helps quell the drone of a CVT, but I can't help but think how much quicker and better MPGs it would have it had a 7 or 8 speed auto.

We gave the Outback to our 17 y/o son back in July 2020 when my wife bought her 2020 4runner TRD Off-Road Premium. We've done that truck up to look like a TRD Pro clone. Talk about an off road beast. I love both those vehicles.