Oil Change - Max Fill Level Variance

[bman6074]

Is there a retrofit for a dip stick? I too would rather just manualy check the oil to be sure it is at the correct level. The computer takes for ever to check the level. Such a pain cause you have to have the key too.

[AchtungF80]

Originally Posted by Gogud

I guess it was only a matter of time until this someone posted an oil fill question on this site. Make sure the car is level when you drain the oil. The oil drains out of the filter housing but you are going to change the filter anyway.
Lets stop and think about this a moment. When you go to the dealer for an oil change, do they put in 6, 6.5, or some other number of quarts of oil and tell you to drive around and keep an eye on the level for a few days?
It takes 7 quarts. SEVEN. Don't worry. If you feel nervous about it, have your wife hold your hand while fill the crankcase.

Unless you have access to a lift or you're anal about getting your car up on jackstands on all 4 corners just to change your oil, there's no real way for a DIYer to have the car level when you drain the oil.

And no, dealers don't put 6qts, 6.5qts or whatever, they just set their nozzle to autofill 7 qts and call it a day. Its not their car, it's your car. If they screw up (ie: forget to torque your drain plug), scratch your car while in service...good luck trying to prove it. If something is broken ie: your engine, as a result...more service work for them to charge you or BMW later on...hell, the service intervals is every 15k miles for oil and filter change...why not just follow that because its in print. The cars are designed for owners NOT to work on them, hence all the plastic covers and lack of dipstick, so why would it really matter that they printed 7qts in the owner's manual. A good majority of BMW drivers don't change their own oil anyway.

Manufacturers have never screwed up printed materials.

[bman6074]

mmmm I have to differ on the statement of the dealer doesn’t' care about your car. I have brought, even my out of warranty M3 to the dealer and have always gotten good service. There has been times they didn’t' do something right I brought it back and they corrected the problem. Sometimes they would even replace something under warranty even tho my car was well out of warranty. I guess it comes down to the dealer.

[Noize]

Originally Posted by achtungE30

Right...so if you drain exactly 6 qts of oil and refill exactly 6qts of oil, and after 100-200mi of driving, the computer still indicates that it is at the max fill level then what's the problem? Are you telling me that brand new BMW motors are going thru 1qt of oil in 5,000mi...if so thats a bit excessive for a brand new motor and you may have just dissuaded quite a few people from keeping their cars. I've kept a watchful eye on oil temps, and i've always been 2-3 notches below 250 (mid point of the oil temp gauge), while most of the time, i've been barely a notch over 160 (coldest point on gauge).



I'm also skeptical of your statement about "cooking" the turbos. How am I cooking my turbos by being, in your mind, 0.5 to 1qt low? Maybe under 100% all the time heavy load, i'd be concerned but not so much on a street car.
I'd still rather be slightly underfilled of oil than overfilled by 1qt of oil.

Originally Posted by achtungE30

Unless you have access to a lift or you're anal about getting your car up on jackstands on all 4 corners just to change your oil, there's no real way for a DIYer to have the car level when you drain the oil.

And no, dealers don't put 6qts, 6.5qts or whatever, they just set their nozzle to autofill 7 qts and call it a day. Its not their car, it's your car. If they screw up (ie: forget to torque your drain plug), scratch your car while in service...good luck trying to prove it. If something is broken ie: your engine, as a result...more service work for them to charge you or BMW later on...hell, the service intervals is every 15k miles for oil and filter change...why not just follow that because its in print. The cars are designed for owners NOT to work on them, hence all the plastic covers and lack of dipstick, so why would it really matter that they printed 7qts in the owner's manual. A good majority of BMW drivers don't change their own oil anyway.

Manufacturers have never screwed up printed materials.

Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? Do you really think the capacity is only 6 quarts? You're putting way too much faith in what the dash says and none in a tech in this thread who is trying to help you.

Oh noes, achtungE30 saw the e-dipstick on the dash said full, so it must be right.

The reason you are only draining 6 quarts is because you are always a quart low. Capacity is 6.9 excluding the oil cooler. If 7 quarts was overfilled, the dash would warn you. Have fun oil starving your engine on a racetrack. Sheesh.

[My135]

I put in 7 quarts and the oil check said OK at max level and no over filled sign. I guess the oil check will show max level for 6.5-7 quarts refill. Also, please do not forget that the dispensed oil filter itself may hold another 0.1-0.3 quart of oil. So even you drained out 6.2 quarts from the oil, it doesn't mean 6.2 quarts refill. I think you need more than 6.2 consider some oil was held by the oil filter. Well, if you think 6.5 quart is good, then it is good for you. I think the car can accept a small over fill.

[AchtungF80]

Originally Posted by Noize

Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? Do you really think the capacity is only 6 quarts? You're putting way too much faith in what the dash says and none in a tech in this thread who is trying to help you.

Oh noes, achtungE30 saw the e-dipstick on the dash said full, so it must be right.

The reason you are only draining 6 quarts is because you are always a quart low. Capacity is 6.9 excluding the oil cooler. If 7 quarts was overfilled, the dash would warn you. Have fun oil starving your engine on a racetrack. Sheesh.

I don't trust dealer techs unless they have a proven track record of giving advice which makes sense and not regurgitated info from what the manual states. I know how to read. I've been changing oil and fluids in my cars for over 10 years and never had any cases of oil starvation. 2 of the cars in my fleet have well over 150k on them. I also never take my cars to the dealer for an oil change because I refuse to pay labor for something I perfectly can do in my spare time.

I trust the dipstick. We don't have one...therefore I trust my personal instincts and what BMW gave us to measure oil level, therefore the e-dipstick which registers full after 6 qts. at my 1000mi break-in oil change. I never said JUST to use 6qts...I just stated people should use their heads before they potentially overfill their engines.

My method is simple, raise car, open oil cap, loosen drain plug and remove and allow oil to drain, while oil drains, remove oil filter housing cap and remove filter and note increased oil drain, allow oil drain to drain totally until not even a very slow drip is observed, replace oil filter, oil filter housing gasket and oil filter cap o-ring, and re-install oil filter housing cap fully until it matches up with hash mark. Replace drain-plug crush washer and re-install drain-plug. Re-fill motor with 6 qts of oil. Close oil cap and start motor, run for 10 seconds, check i-drive/computer for oil level, stop motor and add as needed. If registers full, lower car and drive max 100mi and observe oil level via computer every so often. I keep the remaining qt of oil and a funnel in my trunk in case this is ever necessary.

Don't need a BMW dealer smock wearing tech or warranty to do this all...

I also never pro-claimed myself to track my car heavily so no idea why your last comment applies...

[octironSmith]

Has anybody considered this mod? I've been reading a lot of stuff about "limp home" mode on the tracking threads. I would imagine that it would increase the life of the Turbos by keeping them cooler. Maybe prevent exessive damage from boost spikes.

Do you guys think this is a good idea or a waste of money?

[ennislaw]

I can't speak to turbo motors, but the conventional wisdom was slightly under-filling was less harmful than overfilling. The old standby test was looking for a greasy film on the exhaust pipe tips. However, with turbos, one certainly does not want to starve them of sufficient oil. I'd like to hear from someone with experience in turbocharged engines to give their opinion.

[ssabripo]

you are all a buncha retards! I just put the correct amount: 6.843 quarts, measured with a infrasonic quantum spectroanalyzer with a full Laplace transform canonical matrix sensor.

broke ass mother f#*&(ers!

[m3bs]

Yes,but has it been calibrated recently?

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by m3bs

Yes,but has it been calibrated recently?

calibrated?

The federal government and the National Science foundation uses it in my house to calibrate their entire fleet.

ohio state, son!

[Artmasterx]

I just changed the oil on my 128i yesterday after 7500 miles and drained about 6.7 or 6.8 quarts (and there was probably a bit left in the oil drain container). I put ~6.9 quarts back in.

Maybe you guys with turbos are burning a bit more oil?

On a side note: There is a little lip in the filter housing that does not let a little bit of the oil drain out. It leaves a little puddle around about 1 cm deep (which of course is negligible but I imagine most people changing their own oil are a bit anal about these things). Is there something I am missing or is the only way to get it out to soak it up with a rag?

[m3bs]

I used a turkey baster.

[Carbonic]

Originally Posted by Artmasterx

On a side note: There is a little lip in the filter housing that does not let a little bit of the oil drain out. It leaves a little puddle around about 1 cm deep (which of course is negligible but I imagine most people changing their own oil are a bit anal about these things). Is there something I am missing or is the only way to get it out to soak it up with a rag?

I suck it up with a bit of surgical tubing, takes about 4 "sucks", haven't drunk any oil yet ...

[Mad Dragon]

Originally Posted by achtungE30

Don't need a BMW dealer smock wearing tech or warranty to do this all...

I don't wear a smock, but that's okay. You can keep imagining whatever you want, including what you think you're supposed to put in your engine.

I simply refuse to stand by and let you give out bad advice, especially when it can affect the longevity of your engine. The manual says 6.9qt, the attached chart (SI B 11 11 90) says 6.9qt, and I say 6.9qt.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Noize

Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? Do you really think the capacity is only 6 quarts? . Have fun oil starving your engine on a racetrack. Sheesh.

Do you seriously think you're going to starve this engine because it's a quart low?

You guys are making WAY to much fuss over this. The engine is designed for the oil to be within an operating range. If it's nearing the lower end of the operating range, it will show up on the monitor. You DAMN SURE aren't going to "starve this engine" on a racetrack because you're a quart low, and I can't believe anyone who claims to know anything about engines would even make such a statement.

Do you all think the BMW engineers were idiots who didn't take this sort of thing into consideration when designing the lubrication system?

[Hairy]

ummmmmm

Actually oil starvation on the track IS possible when running just a little down on oil. The gee forces in a corner will push the oil to one side of the pan and if the pickup sucks air.....

You are probably already aware that the C5 Corvettes recommended overfilling by a quart when taking the car on the track. At high RPM's it doesn't take a lot of pressure drop to cause long term problems.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Hairy

ummmmmm

Actually oil starvation on the track IS possible when running just a little down on oil. The gee forces in a corner will push the oil to one side of the pan and if the pickup sucks air.....

You are probably already aware that the C5 Corvettes recommended overfilling by a quart when taking the car on the track. At high RPM's it doesn't take a lot of pressure drop to cause long term problems.

The advice given for a large displacement V8 that has an oil pickup issue really has no bearing whatsoever on this discussion. You're talking about an engine with twice the displacement, two more cylinders, and less oil capacity.


The pickup in the N54 is very low in the bottom of the sump, and you're going to have to be very low on oil to starve it. Have you ever taken a good look at how deep the sump is on this engine? 7 quarts of oil is a lot of capacity for a 3L engine.

As a matter of fact has anyone seen or even read about the N54 seeing a low oil pressure warning? Ever?

[gtaday51]

This is why I want a real dipstick...

[VeeTeg]

Most entertaining and slightly concerning discussion yet. LOL I agree with gtaday51 too.

[Dave]

jeez you guys are really digging them up today..
stick to your owners manual or go by what the dealer says.

The forum is not responsible for any oil changing info

Search and figure it out your self

[JHZR2]

wow... OK, a few observations:

-135i cars have oil temperature sensors. If the oil temperature remains within an acceptable range, then there are no worries. If you have oil overheating, then you may have an issue, particularly if underfilled.
-large sumps in most cars, the 135i included are for one reason: extended drains. A large sump is counter-intuitive to the application of high fuel economy vehicles, as the oil's viscosity and add pack are optimal at temperature (not to mention water and fuel flash off), which takes longer to achieve when the sump is bigger. A large sump is good from the aspect of detergency and dispersancy (more additives to prevent soot and sludge), more surface functional adds, and a better retention of TBN, since you have more in reserve. Its all about allowing the 15-20k mile oil change interval without killing warranty or engine life.
-An engine is overfilled if you see foaming, bubbles, etc. Most engines are designed to be at least 1qt overfilled. Obviously you don't want to be there. Less oil means a bit lower removal of heat/higher mean oil temp (see temperature comment above), and long-term, higher concentrations of wear items. If you change oil every 5000 miles, it is a non-issue.
-Without decent used oil analysis, it is tough to say if fuel dilution or lowered flashpoint is an issue. Id guess it is, and so you'd want more capacity to keep viscosity up.
-even on the track, if youre not having oil temp issues, youre OK. The pickup is another issue, and that is why some sporting cars have dry sump setups. BMW didnt see the need apparently for the average user, even on the autobahn.
-overfilling is bad, it is worse for the most part than a slight underfill. But, it is ONLY worse if airation or slapping of the oil surface happens... otherwise, slight overfill is generally OK. Sometimes it can contribute to higher use, but the latest API SM oils are designed with low Zn and P adds so to protect the catalytic converter to still offer 100-150k mile warranty.

Watch the oil temperature... high temperature means lower viscosity and less protection at the bearings... That is what it is all about. For 99% of the folks on here, particularly if they change their oil before the computer says so, being under or over a quart (the issues I mentioned aside) is not a huge deal, compared to the characteristics of the oil and filter...