[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by skids929

Rationalize much? And who said I WASN'T leasing mine genius?

Do you drink a glass of douche bag every morning or do your financial advisors dictate your diet as well?

Dudes like you make me laugh..Micro-penis syndrome. Who says sh*t like this out loud, let alone put in writing on a forum.

You're the one who threw out the old 1980's stereotype, not him. It's 2021. People lease BMW's because it keeps them in a current bodystyle, it allows them to invest their money in the market, and they never need to spend a dime on repairs in their entire lives.

Leasing perpetually is more expensive than the cycle of buying/selling. It's a luxury for those who can afford it, no different than the DNA of BMW itself. We're not talking about some 2 Series for $329 a month, either. X7 starts at $1,000 a month, well out of the range of the "can't afford it crowd". We're wealthy men here who can afford these things easily and we are smarter with our money that you give us credit for.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

You're the one who threw out the old 1980's stereotype, not him. It's 2021. People lease BMW's because it keeps them in a current bodystyle, it allows them to invest their money in the market, and they never need to spend a dime on repairs in their entire lives.

Leasing perpetually is more expensive than the cycle of buying/selling. It's a luxury for those who can afford it, no different than the DNA of BMW itself. We're not talking about some 2 Series for $329 a month, either. X7 starts at $1,000 a month, well out of the range of the "can't afford it crowd". We're wealthy men here who can afford these things easily and we are smarter with our money that you give us credit for.

Making my point..Guess I just do not feel the need to swoop into forums and point out how wealthy I am. Making a point about having available cash to get the payment close to (or below) a current lease is NOT making a stereotype. Pounding your chest because you can buy a BMW and "you're a wealthy man" is just hilarious.

These are BMWs dude, let's get a grip and be a little more humble. It's an appliance, practically the Honda of German auto brand.


And no one has any maintenance if you if you unload it in the proper time, as I eluded..But you know this already because you're a wealthy man.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by skids929

Making my point..Guess I just do not feel the need to swoop into forums and point out how wealthy I am.

You aren't making a point, you're just embarrassing yourself. This isn't the 2 Series forum. We are accomplished gentlemen (and ladies) here, not 23 year old kids scraping together lunch money to afford a BMW. Take your myths and stereotypes elsewhere. The adults are having a conversation.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

You aren't making a point, you're just embarrassing yourself. This isn't the 2 Series forum. We are accomplished gentlemen (and ladies) here, not 23 year old kids scraping together lunch money to afford a BMW. Take your myths and stereotypes elsewhere. The adults are having a conversation.

My 3rd car is a 2018 911 Turbo S. I sell more real estate than you can likely afford in an affluent area for the past 20 years. I scrape for nothing whatsoever...Difference is, I am just not a DB. Seems you're easily confused, but don't confuse the two.

[rich5741]

Why does every lease vs own discussion devolve into a “everyone who leases can’t come up with a down payment” vs “everyone who pays cash doesn’t know how to invest”? With interest rates as low as they are and assuming you are not in a state that applies double sales tax to lease payments, leasing in a pure apples to apples comparison allows lots of flexibility. At the end of the lease, you can buy for the residual, or if the value is substantially less than residual, just trade for a equivalently used car for less money and you’re ahead vs if you just bought the car outright when it was new.

The difference and why general “advice” from “experts” is to not lease is because very, very few people who lease do so to buy the car at lease end or trade to a used on at the end of the term, they most likely keep trading into new cars every 3 years, which is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than buying and keeping a car for longer than that.

Lease vs buy, at least in this environment where the rate difference is tiny (when I did my lease in early 2021, the rate difference was only 25bps) is really a decision on new car vs long(er) term ownership. To each his own.

toddwalton your approach is the reason I call my previous car my quarter million dollar Lexus GS. I bought it back in 2009 for cash - no financing, wrote a check for the full purchase price. Sold it for $5K when I got my X7 earlier this year - $55K loss vs $250K gain if I’d just dumped those $s into even a vanilla index fund. Oh well.

Before I get flamed - yes I realize that’s not the exact math since i would have made payments anyway, last 10 years is a historic bull market, etc etc, but you all get the point.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by rich5741

Why does every lease vs own discussion devolve into a “everyone who leases can’t come up with a down payment” vs “everyone who pays cash doesn’t know how to invest”? With interest rates as low as they are and assuming you are not in a state that applies double sales tax to lease payments, leasing in a pure apples to apples comparison allows lots of flexibility. At the end of the lease, you can buy for the residual, or if the value is substantially less than residual, just trade for a equivalently used car for less money and you’re ahead vs if you just bought the car outright when it was new.

The difference and why general “advice” from “experts” is to not lease is because very, very few people who lease do so to buy the car at lease end or trade to a used on at the end of the term, they most likely keep trading into new cars every 3 years, which is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than buying and keeping a car for longer than that.

Lease vs buy, at least in this environment where the rate difference is tiny (when I did my lease in early 2021, the rate difference was only 25bps) is really a decision on new car vs long(er) term ownership. To each his own.

toddwalton your approach is the reason I call my previous car my quarter million dollar Lexus GS. I bought it back in 2009 for cash - no financing, wrote a check for the full purchase price. Sold it for $5K when I got my X7 earlier this year - $55K loss vs $250K gain if I’d just dumped those $s into even a vanilla index fund. Oh well.

Before I get flamed - yes I realize that’s not the exact math since i would have made payments anyway, last 10 years is a historic bull market, etc etc, but you all get the point.

No flaming here...I use a hybrid approach and just finance the purchase 100%, my argument for that approach, similar to leasing is that I am confident I can make more than the prevailing interest rate with that cash vs. paying for the vehicle 100%. I'm also very comfortable with not having any lease terms to worry about and just deal with whatever the then-current FMV brings if I decide to sell, whether that be 10 weeks or years

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by skids929

Rationalize much? And who said I WASN'T leasing mine genius?

Do you drink a glass of douche bag every morning or do your financial advisors dictate your diet as well?

Dudes like you make me laugh..Micro-penis syndrome. Who says sh*t like this out loud, let alone put in writing on a forum.

You are the one making the financial generalizations on a thread having nothing to do with leasing vs buying (like a dipshit), not me.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by skids929

My 3rd car is a 2018 911 Turbo S. I sell more real estate than you can likely afford in an affluent area for the past 20 years. I scrape for nothing whatsoever...Difference is, I am just not a DB. Seems you're easily confused, but don't confuse the two.

Wow.....impressed.

So let me get this straight....you have a S4 with a tune (which is a fucking kid's car.....no one but kids under 25 buy S4/M3/Civic and then puts a tune on it) and now you have a 911 Turbo S. Does your boss know you are telling people on the Internet machine that you own his car?

Either way, since you are so successful, you should know rule 1 is that a person's car is never indicative of their wealth. That tells me a lot about you that you keep bringing up different cars you have (or don't have) as some statement on your wealth.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by rich5741

Why does every lease vs own discussion devolve into a “everyone who leases can’t come up with a down payment” vs “everyone who pays cash doesn’t know how to invest”? With interest rates as low as they are and assuming you are not in a state that applies double sales tax to lease payments, leasing in a pure apples to apples comparison allows lots of flexibility. At the end of the lease, you can buy for the residual, or if the value is substantially less than residual, just trade for a equivalently used car for less money and you’re ahead vs if you just bought the car outright when it was new.

The difference and why general “advice” from “experts” is to not lease is because very, very few people who lease do so to buy the car at lease end or trade to a used on at the end of the term, they most likely keep trading into new cars every 3 years, which is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than buying and keeping a car for longer than that.

Lease vs buy, at least in this environment where the rate difference is tiny (when I did my lease in early 2021, the rate difference was only 25bps) is really a decision on new car vs long(er) term ownership. To each his own.

toddwalton your approach is the reason I call my previous car my quarter million dollar Lexus GS. I bought it back in 2009 for cash - no financing, wrote a check for the full purchase price. Sold it for $5K when I got my X7 earlier this year - $55K loss vs $250K gain if I’d just dumped those $s into even a vanilla index fund. Oh well.

Before I get flamed - yes I realize that’s not the exact math since i would have made payments anyway, last 10 years is a historic bull market, etc etc, but you all get the point.

There are absolutely valid reasons to purchase versus lease. I am not disputing that. If you are going to drive for 7-8 years, then by all means you should be purchasing. However, if you have a business, there is ZERO reason for buying over leasing (unless, again, you just don't know what you are doing)....especially if it's an expensive car.

Personally, even if I didn't have a business....I don't think I would buy. I drive 20-25k miles a year and I go through cars quick. I'd be out of warranty in 2 years and eating maintenance costs if I purchased. With a lease, I turn it in at the end and I'm done. If I drove 50k miles when my lease was only 20k, I pay my mileage penalty and am out of it....even if, in reality, the car is worth $15k less due to the mileage.

I'm a big techie, too.....I cannot drive a car with old tech and even a 3-4 year old car has old tech in it.....6-8 year old guys have really old tech. It's why I have never considered a Maserati or Bentley or even Range Rover up until their 2019 updates. Dinosaur tech in those cars.

[serpentine]

Wow, that devolved quickly. OP, there is some good content in the early posts, nothing more to add. Congrats on the purchase, enjoy in good health. I’m probably in a bad position myself. I leased because of my own reasons. 36/10 standard. 5 months in and 12k miles…should I be worried? I’m not, will deal with it when the time comes.

Since I can’t help myself, I’ll just leave this here:

[JaTe]

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by mjr24

However, if you have a business, there is ZERO reason for buying over leasing (unless, again, you just don't know what you are doing)....especially if it's an expensive car.

I know this thread has gotten way off-topic, but remember that not everyone owns the same type of business as you may. Depreciation on an x7 can be 100% tax-deductible and you can't modify a leased passenger vehicle for business use unless you return it back to stock form at EOL.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Wow.....impressed.

So let me get this straight....you have a S4 with a tune (which is a fucking kid's car.....no one but kids under 25 buy S4/M3/Civic and then puts a tune on it) and now you have a 911 Turbo S. Does your boss know you are telling people on the Internet machine that you own his car?

Either way, since you are so successful, you should know rule 1 is that a person's car is never indicative of their wealth. That tells me a lot about you that you keep bringing up different cars you have (or don't have) as some statement on your wealth.

Says the guy who has itemized every shit box car he's owned in his signature..Who's the dipshit now keyboard cowboy. Not smart but you sure are funny!

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by serpentine

Wow, that devolved quickly. OP, there is some good content in the early posts, nothing more to add. Congrats on the purchase, enjoy in good health. I’m probably in a bad position myself. I leased because of my own reasons. 36/10 standard. 5 months in and 12k miles…should I be worried? I’m not, will deal with it when the time comes.

Since I can’t help myself, I’ll just leave this here:

You leased? Well, it's obvious you are poor and can't buy the X7 the RIGHT WAY.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by skids929

Says the guy who has itemized every shit box car he's owned in his signature..Who's the dipshit now keyboard cowboy. Not smart but you sure are funny!

Didn't know that was a list of every car I owned (BTW, most all of those "shitbox" cars were bought new and there is probably a mil of cars listed there).

Also, you probably shouldn't use the same username for all of the forums you use, some don't make you look very good.....I'll leave it at that.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Didn't know that was a list of every car I owned (BTW, most all of those "shitbox" cars were bought new and there is probably a mil of cars listed there).

Also, you probably shouldn't use the same username for all of the forums you use, some don't make you look very good.....I'll leave it at that.

Now we're showing our true colors....Easy tiger, I know I got under your skin enough to stalk me. Skids for the win! You definitely need to get a grip man, forums be gettin you HOT!!

Don't you have a lease to go buy down?

[serpentine]

Originally Posted by mjr24

You leased? Well, it's obvious you are poor and can't buy the X7 the RIGHT WAY.

I don’t think I fall into either category, poor/rich. I know you’re joking here.

Certainly, my X7 is far and away the most expensive car I’ve owned/leased. Part of my decision to lease was that purchasing/financing, would have put me above my budget in terms of cash flow. A budget I set, that was within the confines of what my wife would tolerate without completely depriving me of life’s pleasures.

There’s a whole lot of fail in this thread. Todd mansplaining what is “best”, Skidz asserting what’s “right”, and you claiming “most” lessees are business owners. All opinions.

Raptor_pilot I did not get the tire/wheel insurance because I don’t see the value in it. Already need one wheel repaired and patched a tire. All in will be about $250 for both of those fixes. Not regretting the decision.

I opted for no ceramic or PPF after consulting with friends who have longer standing ownership of vehicles worthy of such treatment. With all the highway miles I have at least a dozen chips, and replaced the windshield in first month of ownership. I think the driving that I am currently doing (literally the construction on the highways I frequent) has contributed to the higher than normal amount of road debris my vehicle is subject to.

I may consider for a future vehicle, but not necessarily regretting the decision. I can’t stand knowing the chips are there.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by serpentine

I don’t think I fall into either category, poor/rich. I know you’re joking here.

Certainly, my X7 is far and away the most expensive car I’ve owned/leased. Part of my decision to lease was that purchasing/financing, would have put me above my budget in terms of cash flow. A budget I set, that was within the confines of what my wife would tolerate without completely depriving me of life’s pleasures.

There’s a whole lot of fail in this thread. Todd mansplaining what is “best”, Skidz asserting what’s “right”, and you claiming “most” lessees are business owners. All opinions.

Raptor_pilot I did not get the tire/wheel insurance because I don’t see the value in it. Already need one wheel repaired and patched a tire. All in will be about $250 for both of those fixes. Not regretting the decision.

I opted for no ceramic or PPF after consulting with friends who have longer standing ownership of vehicles worthy of such treatment. With all the highway miles I have at least a dozen chips, and replaced the windshield in first month of ownership. I think the driving that I am currently doing (literally the construction on the highways I frequent) has contributed to the higher than normal amount of road debris my vehicle is subject to.

I may consider for a future vehicle, but not necessarily regretting the decision. I can’t stand knowing the chips are there.

you're a good man...Nothing I said was aimed at you or meant to disparage your personal decisions. I get it trust me, I have a wife, and regardless of budget, constraints to live within. We all got an awesome car in a way that fits our financial situations.

Let's enjoy our cars, be thankful for blessings we're given to be able to afford them (however we prefer) and just talk BMW and move on.

[jcarlilesiu]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Certainly, but then the car is out of warranty and all it takes is one repair to throw the financial balance over to the lease side and you sit there and look at yourself in the mirror and say "I could have been in my 3rd new X7 for the same money instead of this 8 year old car that smells like spilled yogurt and stale goldfish."

Not sure how you treat your cars, but that isn't mine.

I have a 2014 x1 in the garage with $70k miles on it and it looks and drives like it's brand new. My daily driver.

Almost 8 years old and haven't had a payment in 4 years. Total cost since warranty... $500 new tires.

That's a whole lot of investment returns to offset a potential lease payment even considering "repairs"

If you want to lease, great. It's one of the most costly ways of providing transportation. If it's the right fit for your situation and lifestyle, great. But don't kid yourself that it's superior from a financial perspective with or without investments.

[jcarlilesiu]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Leasing perpetually is more expensive than the cycle of buying/selling. It's a luxury for those who can afford it, no different than the DNA of BMW itself.

See, we agree.

More power to you to lease. Some rent to not have property maintenance and repair bills.

To each their own.

[GrussGott]

l

Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu

If you want to lease, great. It's one of the most costly ways of providing transportation. If it's the right fit for your situation and lifestyle, great. But don't kid yourself that it's superior from a financial perspective with or without investments.

This is complete garbage. Over the last 10 years nobody that understands a speadsheet wouldn't lease a BMW - the whole "zomg, it's renting you guys!" is a silly misunderstanding (or ignorance) of how financing works.

Over the last decade not only was BMWFS leasing the cheapest way to **BUY** a BMW, it's been the least financially risky.

That said, over the 6 months, that's no longer the case as residuals have fallen beyond the subsidy point (also, you lose the PenFed rebate) .

Which is why for this BMW I"m either writing a check and/or, if I can find something < 2.5% in a month or so, then I'll probably do at least a partial loan depending on the bureaucracy hassle.

[Raptor_pilot]

Originally Posted by serpentine

I don’t think I fall into either category, poor/rich. I know you’re joking here.

Certainly, my X7 is far and away the most expensive car I’ve owned/leased. Part of my decision to lease was that purchasing/financing, would have put me above my budget in terms of cash flow. A budget I set, that was within the confines of what my wife would tolerate without completely depriving me of life’s pleasures.

There’s a whole lot of fail in this thread. Todd mansplaining what is “best”, Skidz asserting what’s “right”, and you claiming “most” lessees are business owners. All opinions.

Raptor_pilot I did not get the tire/wheel insurance because I don’t see the value in it. Already need one wheel repaired and patched a tire. All in will be about $250 for both of those fixes. Not regretting the decision.

I opted for no ceramic or PPF after consulting with friends who have longer standing ownership of vehicles worthy of such treatment. With all the highway miles I have at least a dozen chips, and replaced the windshield in first month of ownership. I think the driving that I am currently doing (literally the construction on the highways I frequent) has contributed to the higher than normal amount of road debris my vehicle is subject to.

I may consider for a future vehicle, but not necessarily regretting the decision. I can’t stand knowing the chips are there.

serpentine thanks for your tips….clearly this thread has gone in a very different direction than intended….good entertainment

I am currently thinking to not go for tire insurance and rather play it by the ear. One of my friend does graphene coating and he is giving me a great quote, so am contemplating it.