[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by norMcal

It always comes down to the driver. The Cayman is a better balanced car, lighter, has a lower CG and arguably better looking.
The M2 has room for 4, a real trunk, a 6 cylinder engine for a lot less money, and is very close in performance. But with equal drivers, on a track, I bet the Cayman is a second or two quicker per lap on an average length course.

For me, as a long time BMW owner, I'd still rather own a M2, because of practicality, even though I would rather have the Cayman the 6-8 days out of the year that I go to the track.

What I don't like about the Cayman is that it's no 911. Although it is a better balanced car, the fact that they artificially de-tune it, to not knock the king of the thrown, is BS. I do think the 911 is better looking abd it also has a bit more room with the 2 rear seats, albeit just for kids.

I was just at the track on Monday and the paddock was full of P cars. I have to say, at least for me, the Cayman's just blend in, whereas the 911's are still what get's your attention. A friend of mine brought his new 991.2 GTS and allowed me to take it out for a few laps. Pretty amazing machine. Here is the thing about Porsche's. This car was bone stock and with my friend in the passenger side (so an extra 200 lbs), on stock tires and stock brake pads, I managed to get within just a couple of seconds of my best time in my e46 M3, which has most of the track mods you can do....track pads, suspension, camber plates, R-comp tires, tune, exhaust, 200 lbs weight reduction and on an on. With a little more seat time in the GTS, I would probably be just as fast or faster in this car, on street tires and street pads, and of course way quicker if changing that stuff.
Long story short. Porsche's are a bit more ready for track (ab)use than M cars, and that is where the difference lies IMHO. They are true sports cars whereas BMW M cars are sporty cars, but offer more practicality.

I have a friend that owned a 1M for 5 years , he was on this forum. He sold it and got a 718 Cayman GTS I believe. For the first two years that I saw him at the track he raved about the Cayman and said it was a couple of seconds faster at the track. The handling of the Cayman is sublime etc. I saw him again just last fall at the track and he looked at my 1M and said the Cayman has been fun .. but now that his Porsche is out of warranty he misses the affordability , practicality and daily drivability of the 1M... and he sure have my car some wistful glances.

I've personally considered the Cayman GT4 but not enough to drive it... it is one of a short list of cars I would like to own. It's also on the long list of cars I probably can't afford to own.

[Romo]

I used to own a 981CGTS, beautiful car, engine, PDK, PCCB, al brilliant stuf, but the steering, that was a let down for me, I can tel the 1M /M2 do haver better steering feel and a far more better initial turn in/ quicker steering ratio.

I have driven all 718 versions, and to me its a bloody shame engine wise, no, not alone on sound, but also the way this engine is running, it is raw, it is droning, in no way this engine can compete with the 6F CGTS nor the 6IL 1M/M2, however the 718 steering ratio is 10% better than the 981, so kudos for that.

So I`m anxiously waiting for the 718 GT4, as it might be the last 6F NA ( hoping and praying it wil be NA).

For me its now or never, 6F NA, PDK, I will keep the M2 and buy the 718GT4 as a weekend warrior next to it, maybe turning the M2 in for a M2C and combine it with the GT4

Lets see what is coming........

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I have a friend that owned a 1M for 5 years , he was on this forum. He sold it and got a 718 Cayman GTS I believe. For the first two years that I saw him at the track he raved about the Cayman and said it was a couple of seconds faster at the track. The handling of the Cayman is sublime etc. I saw him again just last fall at the track and he looked at my 1M and said the Cayman has been fun .. but now that his Porsche is out of warranty he misses the affordability , practicality and daily drivability of the 1M... and he sure have my car some wistful glances.

I've personally considered the Cayman GT4 but not enough to drive it... it is one of a short list of cars I would like to own. It's also on the long list of cars I probably can't afford to own.

I completely understand where you're coming from - ownership of the P car is a commitment that isn't to be taken lightly. When you combine the normal stuff, like oil changes and tires, to the service interval jobs...it can be a lot to absorb, especially if you're making a monthly payment on top of it all (like I was).

I should have better prepared myself for that eventuality with the 981, and the reason to get rid of it was based solely on financial reasons, not anything else. With that being said, I haven't regretted letting go of any of my BMWs at lease end...it was easy enough to say goodbye. I still dream of the 981, because there's really something to it (at least there was for me and with that version of the Cayman). But I plan to wait until I have more disposable income to venture into that P car land again, where I will hopefully not be impacted or care as much about what it takes to own one (from a financial perspective).

Also, let's not forget, BMWs aren't exactly cheap to own outside of warranty periods either.

[homerdog]

Having both a 718S and an M2, I can tell you which is the better car and it's not the BMW, much as I love it.

And that's despite the engine in the Porsche!

[Tag]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I have a friend that owned a 1M for 5 years , he was on this forum. He sold it and got a 718 Cayman GTS I believe. For the first two years that I saw him at the track he raved about the Cayman and said it was a couple of seconds faster at the track. The handling of the Cayman is sublime etc. I saw him again just last fall at the track and he looked at my 1M and said the Cayman has been fun .. but now that his Porsche is out of warranty he misses the affordability , practicality and daily drivability of the 1M... and he sure have my car some wistful glances.

I've personally considered the Cayman GT4 but not enough to drive it... it is one of a short list of cars I would like to own. It's also on the long list of cars I probably can't afford to own.

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I completely understand where you're coming from - ownership of the P car is a commitment that isn't to be taken lightly. When you combine the normal stuff, like oil changes and tires, to the service interval jobs...it can be a lot to absorb, especially if you're making a monthly payment on top of it all (like I was).

I should have better prepared myself for that eventuality with the 981, and the reason to get rid of it was based solely on financial reasons, not anything else. With that being said, I haven't regretted letting go of any of my BMWs at lease end...it was easy enough to say goodbye. I still dream of the 981, because there's really something to it (at least there was for me and with that version of the Cayman). But I plan to wait until I have more disposable income to venture into that P car land again, where I will hopefully not be impacted or care as much about what it takes to own one (from a financial perspective).

Also, let's not forget, BMWs aren't exactly cheap to own outside of warranty periods either.

The main reason I've never gone over to Porsche is the cost. It has nothing to do with being able to afford one, it's the responsible voice in my head telling me it's not a good move (shut up, inner jerk voice). In fact I've even found myself coming up with laughable ways to justify getting a Porsche only to realize I'm lying to myself.

I feel out of love with BMW's for many years and reluctantly started to consider getting a 718 as well as other cars, new and used. Then when rumors of an M2 started to surface it caught my attention. Was this the car I'd been waiting for? It checked all the boxes for me, a relative bargain, performance, looks and practically with rear seats a nice sized trunk with folding seats, etc. And now the M2c... win. And so here I am (rocking like a hurricane).

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

When you combine the normal stuff, like oil changes and tires, to the service interval jobs...it can be a lot to absorb, especially if you're making a monthly payment on top of it all (like I was).

You can greatly reduce the cost by going to an independent shop. Personally think Pcars are some of the easiest cars to work on.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You can greatly reduce the cost by going to an independent shop. Personally think Pcars are some of the easiest cars to work on.

How does that work when you're still under warranty? Don't you need to have service intervals performed by Porsche or else they consider your car skipped it and you will have issues getting something fixed under warranty? I recall reading about this on a P car forum, albeit long ago.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You can greatly reduce the cost by going to an independent shop. Personally think Pcars are some of the easiest cars to work on.

And perhaps that was the main mistake on my part - I had been going to the dealer for so long with my BMWs that I simply continued the practice with my 981.

I also knew so little about Porsche, and the evolution of the engines for example, that I was afraid to trust such an expensive piece of kit to someone other than the dealer (who you theoretically have recourse against should something go wrong).

Being in the BMW realm for so long had advantages on that front - should I ever have wanted to keep one of my many leases, I would have felt much more comfortable doing so...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Tag

How does that work when you're still under warranty? Don't you need to have service intervals performed by Porsche or else they consider your car skipped it and you will have issues getting something fixed under warranty? I recall reading about this on a P car forum, albeit long ago.

This was always my biggest fear...so I just bit the bullet for two years and took it to where I bought it.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Tag

How does that work when you're still under warranty? Don't you need to have service intervals performed by Porsche or else they consider you car skipped it and you will have issues getting something fixed under warranty? I recall reading about this on a P car forum, albeit long ago.

Not if you keep all receipts of parts ordered and log dates. My friend does all his own service, because he enjoys it. Plus he is constantly doing pad changes due to tracking, that would get quite expensive at Porsche dealer shop rates. Buys all Porsche parts from dealer, they really aren’t much more that going to bmw parts department. He has never had any issues with getting warranty work, he has a cpo warranty. On occasion he has had an independent shop do some maintenance if he doesn’t have time(sudden prep for track weekend), he buys parts himself and takes them to the shop. Easier to log personal receipts and shop hours much less expensive than dealer.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

And perhaps that was the main mistake on my part - I had been going to the dealer for so long with my BMWs that I simply continued the practice with my 981.

I also knew so little about Porsche, and the evolution of the engines for example, that I was afraid to trust such an expensive piece of kit to someone other than the dealer (who you theoretically have recourse against should something go wrong).

Being in the BMW realm for so long had advantages on that front - should I ever have wanted to keep one of my many leases, I would have felt much more comfortable doing so...

After attending some PCA HPDE, seeing just about everyone wrenching on their cars in the paddock. You realize how easy they are to work on. Anything from base Caymans to GT3’s. You will never see Joe Schmo there with his garage queen GT3, but rather guys that drive crap out of their GT3’s. Some of most rock chip peppered front bumpers I’ve ever seen. It is refreshing to know some of the GT cars actually get driven hard and not put away to flip for profit. Just had my friends 911.1 rear completely taken apart last weekend, changing exhaust setup. The car is like legos, have to love German engineering.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by Tag

The main reason I've never gone over to Porsche is the cost. It has nothing to do with being able to afford one, it's the responsible voice in my head telling me it's not a good move (shut up, inner jerk voice). In fact I've even found myself coming up with laughable ways to justify getting a Porsche only to realize I'm lying to myself.

I feel out of love with BMW's for many years and reluctantly started to consider getting a 718 as well as other cars, new and used. Then when rumors of an M2 started to surface it caught my attention. Was this the car I'd been waiting for? It checked all the boxes for me, a relative bargain, performance, looks and practically with rear seats a nice sized trunk with folding seats, etc. And now the M2c... win. And so here I am (rocking like a hurricane).

How accurate is that though really? They're expensive to fix, but how often do they need fixing, is the question... My friend's got a 10 year old 911, DD's it as a realtor, so lots of miles on it, and has never had issues other than wear and tear.

My 10 year old 335 OTOH, with only 50,000 miles on it, has already had 2 water pumps go -- yes, two! -- one recently after having put a new one in just 10,000 miles ago, at $1000 each.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

How accurate is that though really? They're expensive to fix, but how often do they need fixing, is the question... My friend's got a 10 year old 911, DD's it as a realtor, so lots of miles on it, and has never had issues other than wear and tear.

My 10 year old 335 OTOH, with only 50,000 miles on it, has already had 2 water pumps go -- yes, two! -- one recently after having put a new one in just 10,000 miles ago, at $1000 each.

Hard to say, P cars can be very reliable, but some models or even specific model year of a certain model can have issues that are extremely costly. If you are getting a used one and do your homework you'll be fine. If you plan on buying new, well there's usually not enough history on that car to know for certain no serious issues will be discovered years later.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

How accurate is that though really? They're expensive to fix, but how often do they need fixing, is the question... My friend's got a 10 year old 911, DD's it as a realtor, so lots of miles on it, and has never had issues other than wear and tear.

My 10 year old 335 OTOH, with only 50,000 miles on it, has already had 2 water pumps go -- yes, two! -- one recently after having put a new one in just 10,000 miles ago, at $1000 each.

$58,000 BMW 3 series plus two $1000 repairs.
$85,000 Porsche 911 plus $0 repairs. ( I feel like I am being VERY generous on the Porsche price here)

sounds like the BMW owner is WELL ahead since the Porsche probably had a 30% higher sticker price..

Originally Posted by Tag

Hard to say, P cars can be very reliable, but some models or even specific model year of a certain model can have issues that are extremely costly. If you are getting a used one and do your homework you'll be fine. If you plan on buying new, well there's usually not enough history on that car to know for certain no serious issues will be discovered years later.

+1 I have a lot of friends that own Porsche's. Most of them will only own a water cooled car under warranty. The ones that own older cars usually have air cooled cars...

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by jase2addict

My dream set up is the M2C and a 997.1 GT3. Question to me would be how much better is the M2C than your modded M2?

My dream set up is a "manual" M2 (which I have) and a 991.2 GT3...but a used 991.1 GT3 will be fine also

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by Tag

The main reason I've never gone over to Porsche is the cost.

Always think about TOTAL cost of ownership. I'm hoping this won't be the case with the M2, but I've taken a bath with most BMW's in respect to depreciation. Porsche maintenance can be very reasonable actually. I recall that a set of Michelins for my 911 turbo were about $1200. The runflats on my f'n X3 were about the same amount! And while the BMW drops like a bomb in value, a Porsche holds very solid. Even if you don't talk about a GT4 or GT3, which REALLY hold their values.

The reality is that the cost of maintenance typically pales to the cost of depreciation. You're much better off with a car that holds its value and costs a bit more to maintain.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by ryem3

Always think about TOTAL cost of ownership. I'm hoping this won't be the case with the M2, but I've taken a bath with most BMW's in respect to depreciation. Porsche maintenance can be very reasonable actually. I recall that a set of Michelins for my 911 turbo were about $1200. The runflats on my f'n X3 were about the same amount! And while the BMW drops like a bomb in value, a Porsche holds very solid. Even if you don't talk about a GT4 or GT3, which REALLY hold their values.

The reality is that the cost of maintenance typically pales to the cost of depreciation. You're much better off with a car that holds its value and costs a bit more to maintain.

Absolutely, it is best to calculate total cost of ownership in conjunction with your own need/want to have checklist.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by csbear

The 718 is very capable, but except for the new GT4 (if it is NA 6), I just couldn't spend that kind of dough on a 4 banger. Would be tough... The moment I heard Porsche was putting a 4 turbo in the new Cayman, my interest for the M2 and its upcoming iterations (as well as other brands), got much higher. Who knows, maybe some kind of 911 in the future...

Car looks beautiful in Chalk though!

Agree with your sentiments above, but still shocked that Chalk replaced Mahogany Metallic...

[bobert]

Originally Posted by Tag

I feel out of love with BMW's for many years and reluctantly started to consider getting a 718 as well as other cars, new and used. Then when rumors of an M2 started to surface it caught my attention. Was this the car I'd been waiting for? It checked all the boxes for me, a relative bargain, performance, looks and practically with rear seats a nice sized trunk with folding seats, etc. And now the M2c... win. And so here I am (rocking like a hurricane).

Wonder how many of the young pups on here didn't get the 'Scorps' reference...

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You can greatly reduce the cost by going to an independent shop. Personally think Pcars are some of the easiest cars to work on.

*I got a guy* so much cheaper(better value) than the stealership.

[MSurge]

Originally Posted by Tag

How does that work when you're still under warranty? Don't you need to have service intervals performed by Porsche or else they consider your car skipped it and you will have issues getting something fixed under warranty? I recall reading about this on a P car forum, albeit long ago.

M2 is much easier to work on! You can’t even see the engine in the 718!!

You can change the oil in the N/S55 in 5 min without lifting the car.

[Roberto71]

I think I'd choose the F-Type 2 Litre over the base Cayman, It sounds a lot better and comes with a lot more standard equipment. And let's be honest, it looks a hell of a lot better.