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      08-24-2014, 07:31 PM   #89
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Yes, Hamilton can be whiny but he did nothing wrong today and maintained control of the line. I'm sure Rosberg was livid to get passed into the first turn from pole and decided that he would display some early intimidation/revenge with HAM. I think Rosberg's true colors are finally emerging. It was completely obvious in his body language during the post race interview with Will Buxton. Makes one wonder if he really did pull a page from the MS Monaco qualifying handbook
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      08-24-2014, 08:29 PM   #90
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If they lock out the front row in Monza, the chicane at the end of the straight should prove interesting.
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      08-24-2014, 09:04 PM   #91
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I'm starting to forgive the sounds of this year's cars, after seeing ALO oversteer and having to countersteer at Eau Rouge chasing MAG. The turbo spike along with the torque of the cars, the amount of passing, is actually an acceptable result.
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      08-24-2014, 10:44 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
Nico went for it and it got messy. It happens. He owned up to it (has Hamilton EVER really done that?). Then Mr.Nothing-Is-Ever-My-Fault (brakes during qualy??) starts whining on the radio; clearly giving up. Didn't Schumacher race the crappy Mercedes back to 7th in Belgium a few years ago? Hamilton has the fastest car on the grid and gives up right away, just like a child. He's been off for a month and can't even bother to complete the race. Or state his true reasons on the radio instead of coming up with that engine nonsense.
Then he twists Rosberg's words after the race just like a child would. Pathetic.
Villeneuve was right (see link below), they snag these children off the lower formulae and put them into F1 cars before they have developed a personality and character. The championship battle between Massa and Hamilton in 2008 was like a game of musical chairs at best. Sigh...

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/...tappen-signing
Actually if you look at the lap chart, Hamilton was never catching up with the field. After his tires were puncture, he also damaged his floor and rear aerodynamics. His lap times were never like several races before with a perfect car and catching up 2-3 seconds a lap.

Well, lets put it this way, you were in a lead, and your teammate came up to ur rear and slide your tires with a move that's never going to stick. I'm sure you'll be pissed, and when you have a damaged car with no other lucks (weather, safety car, etc), and not catching up at all. I don't really see the point if you keep taking life out of the power unit with no gain, and most likely HAM will have a more dominant car in the race afterwards.

I can tell why HAM took ROS "reasoning" as "intentional". To him, this is personal. With this half ass overtake maneuver, to try to make a point? This is stupid IMO in this case.
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      08-24-2014, 10:48 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlp View Post
Yes, Hamilton can be whiny but he did nothing wrong today and maintained control of the line. I'm sure Rosberg was livid to get passed into the first turn from pole and decided that he would display some early intimidation/revenge with HAM. I think Rosberg's true colors are finally emerging. It was completely obvious in his body language during the post race interview with Will Buxton. Makes one wonder if he really did pull a page from the MS Monaco qualifying handbook
Oh man! I saw his pen interview with Natalie Pinkham.
Nico looked like wanted to punch the pregnant woman in the face. (Congratulations to Natalie though!)

And nico must be thinking, stop asking me dammit!!!
When he was asked the steering wheel twitching to the right towards HAM.
He was like, "I'm not sure I need to look at the footage".
C'mon, you were in the car driving!!!!
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      08-24-2014, 10:57 PM   #94
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Why Mercedes didn’t retire Hamilton sooner

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/08/2...-fastest-laps/

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The records will show Mercedes took pole position at Spa-Francorchamps this year with over two seconds in hand over their closest rivals, and in the race Nico Rosberg’s fastest lap was almost two seconds quicker than anyone else – yet they still lost the race.

That’s remarkable enough in its own right, and the top staff at Mercedes are rightly furious that an unnecessary collision between their drivers cost what should have been another one-two finish.

The scale of Mercedes’ advantage gives some insight into another of the interesting storylines of the race – Lewis Hamilton’s eagerness to retire his wounded W05 while the team wanted him to stay out.

Hamilton incurred considerable damage to the floor of his car while driving back to the pits with a puncture, and after he rejoined the track the car was clearly not handling to his liking. But despite those problems Hamilton’s car was still quick – indeed, he took 2.7 seconds out of his race-leading team mate between laps three and eight.

Nonetheless in a series of radio messages to his team Hamilton made it clear he wanted to retire the car. “I’ve got nothing, guys,” he said shortly before his second pit stop, “the rear end is so bad”.

Hamilton, of course, is used to having a much quicker car underneath him than almost every other driver in the field. His badly wounded car was, in the early stages of the race, still better than what many of his rivals get to drive on a good day.

Afterwards Hamilton estimated the damage had cost him “at least 50, 40 points [of downforce]“. He told reporters: “I could do nothing, I was driving the arse off the car and the thing was all over the place and I couldn’t catch Romain Grosjean.”

Hamilton’s comments reflect the condition his car was in by the time he retired. But to begin with he was regularly over a second per lap faster than Grosjean, as the date below shows. He overtook the Lotus on lap 23.

However Hamilton’s car was getting worse. “The condition of the car deteriorated further as the race continued,” explained Mercedes’ executive direcotr for technical, Paddy Lowe.

It became increasingly clear to Mercedes that his only realistic chance of scoring points was if the Safety Car came out. This was not an unreasonable gamble to take – the Safety Car had appeared in four of the last five races at Spa-Francorchamps.

But even if the Safety Car had appeared, Hamilton wasn’t convinced it would help him. “It doesn’t even matter if the Safety Car came out,” he said afterwards, “I wouldn’t be able to pass the car in front. [Adrian] Sutil was pulling away from me.”

Hamilton was faster than Sutil until around the middle part of the race. But his car was getting slower, and soon the Sauber ahead of him was getting smaller instead of larger – which was due in part to Sutil being on the soft tyres. However after Hamilton’s final pit stop it became clear the tipping point had been reached, and Mercedes finally retired his car.

Up until that point, Hamilton had usually been quick enough that the potential appearance of the Safety Car could have helped him take at least one point. As his race engineer Peter Bonnington pointed out during the race, had they retired his car early and then seen the Safety Car come out, “we’d be kicking ourselves”.
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      08-24-2014, 11:12 PM   #95
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Wow, you must not like Hamilton. His car was damaged, and he was out of the points, so stopping was done to preserve his engine for the future races.

With an undamaged car, Hamilton has shown multiple times he is the class of the field by blowing through the field and placing on the podium. He showed that in the last couple races.


Rosberg is a punk ass beeotch IMO. He clearly steered into Hamilton's car. It's even worse because there was runoff outside of the track, so he still could have not backed off without taking his teammate out, and screwing the pooch for Both of them. He could have easily taken himself out as well. I would think his team is not looking favorably at his behavior.

If he wins the championship, I will always remember him as a dirty, low-down, cheating driver.

He is clearly outclassed by Hamilton. Rosberg can't win by playing by the rules so he chooses to play dirty.

He deserves every boo he got and more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
Nico went for it and it got messy. It happens. He owned up to it (has Hamilton EVER really done that?). Then Mr.Nothing-Is-Ever-My-Fault (brakes during qualy??) starts whining on the radio; clearly giving up. Didn't Schumacher race the crappy Mercedes back to 7th in Belgium a few years ago? Hamilton has the fastest car on the grid and gives up right away, just like a child. He's been off for a month and can't even bother to complete the race. Or state his true reasons on the radio instead of coming up with that engine nonsense.
Then he twists Rosberg's words after the race just like a child would. Pathetic.
Villeneuve was right (see link below), they snag these children off the lower formulae and put them into F1 cars before they have developed a personality and character. The championship battle between Massa and Hamilton in 2008 was like a game of musical chairs at best. Sigh...

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/...tappen-signing
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      08-25-2014, 01:17 AM   #96
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I don't like Hamilton. He's had more than a few over-the-top comments/moments through the years. I think he is really talented (did anyone see his lap in a reasonably priced car?), but he's not consistent enough mentally, in my opinion.

I forgot his car was damaged. Good point. But I really don't think Rosberg steered into Hamilton on purpose (the car does give him a kick as he almost outbreaks himself, though).
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      08-25-2014, 01:22 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaron14 View Post
I'm starting to forgive the sounds of this year's cars, after seeing ALO oversteer and having to countersteer at Eau Rouge chasing MAG. The turbo spike along with the torque of the cars, the amount of passing, is actually an acceptable result.
whoops, sorry for the double post. It had been a while since I'd come to the forum.

Well, I was at Montréal, and having heard the old V10s (cranked up to almost 20k) and V8s live, I can safely say that it's NOT an issue. YES, they're CONSIDERABLY less loud, but they sound like proper race cars, and well, just, like, the future haha
For my American neighbours, I'd say they're a tad quieter than Indys (though it's been a WHILE since I last saw them live).
If you think about it, there's no real reason why the cars should be deafeningly loud.
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      08-25-2014, 05:51 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
I don't like Hamilton. He's had more than a few over-the-top comments/moments through the years. I think he is really talented (did anyone see his lap in a reasonably priced car?), but he's not consistent enough mentally, in my opinion.

I forgot his car was damaged. Good point. But I really don't think Rosberg steered into Hamilton on purpose (the car does give him a kick as he almost outbreaks himself, though).
You need to watch the footage again. Watch Sky F1's replays and analysis. It clearly shows ROS turning into HAM with a sharp right turn of the wheel in the middle of the apex. That's what you call intentional.

Hamilton came out of the team meeting stating ROS pretty much did it on purpose. Wolf said that HAM's statement was pretty much true.

This not only increases my dislike for ROS, but also admits he must be a genius - think Monaco - incidents that were technically legal but played out in favor of ROS.

Did anyone see Martin Brundle's segment of how the angle that ROS clipped HAM will result in a 90% chance of a puncture and only a slightly damaged front wing?

It seemed to be a calculated risk. Sure you'll lose out to RIC and won't win the race, but 18 points is comparatively better than 0 points for HAM, and RIC can still win the race but be miles behind ROS in the championship. These incidents remind me of MSC intentionally parking the car to win the championship as well as Senna and Prost colliding intentionally to secure the championship.

There are now rumors that HAM might even quit Mercedes. That's what happens when the team gets rid of Ross Brawn, pretty much the main reason why HAM joined Mercedes to begin with.
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      08-25-2014, 08:44 AM   #99
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Rosberg facing 'consequences' for crash - Wolff

I cannot see a "huge" slap on the wrist to Nico somehow, him and HAM will still win Merc the WCC.

Quote:
Toto Wolff says Mercedes may go beyond a "slap on the wrist" for Nico Rosberg after his collision with Lewis Hamilton at the Belgian Grand Prix.

Rosberg made contact with Hamilton on lap two at Les Combes, giving Hamilton a puncture and dropping him out of contention for points - with the Brit later saying there was little Mercedes could do to reprimand his team-mate. It later emerged Rosberg had admitted he wanted to "prove a point" by leaving his nose in at the corner and Wolff admits the team has harsh punishments it can implement on its championship leader if it feels the need to.

"A lot," Wolff said when asked what Mercedes could do to rectify the situation. "I'm not going to comment on this right now. Today we've seen the limits of the slap on the wrist. Maybe the slap on the wrist is not enough. If Lewis has said that it's going to be a slap on the wrist, and that there's going to be no consequence, then he's not aware of what consequences we can implement."

Mercedes has been largely praised this year for letting its drivers race each other but Wolff admits the incident at Spa-Francorchamps means it has to re-assess that policy.

"Unfortunatly, yes," Wolff said when asked if the collision could spell the end of Mercedes' approach. "It would be too early to elaborate in detail because the devil lies in the detail in that case. We haven't decided that yet. We are all fans, and we owe it to ourselves and everybody out there to let them race. Today that philosophy has ended in Mercedes losing many, many points and we don't want to end up in Abu Dhabi with a season where we lost a championship - constructors' or drivers' - because we were too much race fans.

"We have probably not hit the self-destruct button yet but there is a lot at stake. If you don't manage this properly now it could end up at that point. Obviously it's one thing enjoying great races and letting them fight each other hard but you look like a fool at the end of the season if you haven't won anything."


Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/belgium/motorsp...jj3t7MHuRkV.99
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      08-25-2014, 08:46 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I cannot see a "huge" slap on the wrist to Nico somehow, him and HAM will still win Merc the WCC.
It won't be long before they clinch. Look how far ahead they are already:

World Constructors Championship - Standings After Round 12:
1. Mercedes 411 pts
2. RedBull 254
3. Ferrari 158
4. Williams 150 pts

This rivalry is pushing them both forward. I haven't run the numbers but the WCC should be MBZ's very shortly
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      08-25-2014, 09:13 AM   #101
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We know that Hamilton has the ability to charge up through the pack in both dry and wet. Why did he sit in P16, after he got his tires swapped? I think he's a drama queen.
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      08-25-2014, 09:20 AM   #102
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I'm sure that train wreck named McLaren would welcome HAM back with open arms and with Honda engines next year that prospect ( McLaren - Honda + HAM ) should worry Benz a lot more than the impact of dealing harshly with Nico...

I would be surprised if we don't see more than a slap on the wrist.
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      08-25-2014, 09:23 AM   #103
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He had massive down force issue, his floor was damaged because of the puncture something like 50 % less downforce.
He said he couldn't even " overtake sutil and grosjean " and that was a good indicator for him to pull out and in hindsight he was actually spot on.
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      08-25-2014, 09:41 AM   #104
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His car was damaged by the flat rear tire. If he were able to charge through the pack, he would have. He's shown that he can, and will do just that if he able to.

Also, because of the new stupid rules of limited engines for the season, he wanted to preserve his engine for future races.



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We know that Hamilton has the ability to charge up through the pack in both dry and wet. Why did he sit in P16, after he got his tires swapped? I think he's a drama queen.
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      08-25-2014, 09:45 AM   #105
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I sure hope so. Rosberg has been playing dirty pool all year long.

He's showing that he can't win without basically cheating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I'm sure that train wreck named McLaren would welcome HAM back with open arms and with Honda engines next year that prospect ( McLaren - Honda + HAM ) should worry Benz a lot more than the impact of dealing harshly with Nico...

I would be surprised if we don't see more than a slap on the wrist.
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      08-25-2014, 10:00 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 954Stealth View Post
It won't be long before they clinch. Look how far ahead they are already:

World Constructors Championship - Standings After Round 12:
1. Mercedes 411 pts
2. RedBull 254
3. Ferrari 158
4. Williams 150 pts

This rivalry is pushing them both forward. I haven't run the numbers but the WCC should be MBZ's very shortly
agreed, this year should be safe, but given Nico just signed a multi year contract and lewis will soon engage into contract negotiation.
I wonder how this will effect hamilton's motivation to stay.

This incident overshadows the lenient penalty on Ferrari kept their mechanics on the grid after the 15 second mark. I was surprised the stewards didn't go for a more harsh penalty due to safety.
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      08-25-2014, 10:04 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by larryn View Post
We know that Hamilton has the ability to charge up through the pack in both dry and wet. Why did he sit in P16, after he got his tires swapped? I think he's a drama queen.
Like I said before, his floor was damaged. And lost about 40-50 points of downforce on the rear.

Even if there were safety car to bunch up the field, he can hardly overtake anyone. Since the damage, his car was down to the pace of a Sauber like.

He was thinking, he's stuck on P16, not catching up with a damage car. There's nothing to salvage, we can put a good engine into better use next race or later this season. Which might benefit Hamilton if others starting to have engine troubles and running extra power unit components, and taking grid penalties.
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      08-25-2014, 10:04 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
I sure hope so. Rosberg has been playing dirty pool all year long.

He's showing that he can't win without basically cheating.
Show me a rule he broke? If he was cheating, he'd be penalized. I think he's a snake, but he's not cheating. Quite the ruthless strategy on his part, actually.

Both HAM and ROS drive as if each other is on another team, that's all... Had they had different livery, Rosberg's moves would have been brilliant, IMHO. They both live up to the spoiled brat silver spoon mentality as well...
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      08-25-2014, 10:15 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Show me a rule he broke? If he was cheating, he'd be penalized. I think he's a snake, but he's not cheating. Quite the ruthless strategy on his part, actually.

Both HAM and ROS drive as if each other is on another team, that's all... Had they had different livery, Rosberg's moves would have been brilliant, IMHO. They both live up to the spoiled brat silver spoon mentality as well...
He is play dirty and always given the benefit of doubt.
A few example I could think of this season was in Canada, Hamilton was chasing him hard and he locked up in the final chicane, lost the corner, went to the paved run off and just gunned the gas pedal in the run off zone, gained 0.5 second. That felt like a dirty move that should only exist in arcade gaming.

Monaco was debatable, some said he deliberately twitched the car, and went on to the escape route. But why reverse and backing out? The qualifying session was only a minute left or something. Of course, it looked like he was trying too hard and out braked himself. That's the benefit of doubt he got.

This time, he "deliberately" stick his car there to "prove a point", making a statement "I won't back off like Bahrain anymore!". A clumsy move IMO.
Unless we or the FIA has the telemetry showed that he steered into Hamilton (which looked like it in the gif I posted), it could be a moment of unstable car or whatever reason. For now, before any new evidence, I believe he wouldn't back off instead of intentionally hitting him.

Probably to the stewards at the moment, it was a racing incident. Not willing to back off, yield to a possible collision. Is different to using your car to hit someone and causing a collision.
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      08-25-2014, 10:28 AM   #110
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It looked to me like instead of hitting Hamilton, he could have gone slightly off-track, not lifted, and not have taken Hamilton out.

He stuffed his car in, and at the precise moment he steered into Hamilton where he could have instead tucked back in behind and carried on. His pass attempt had already failed.

On the 2nd lap to boot!

This screwed the race for both drivers.
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