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      02-16-2015, 04:48 PM   #45
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Mods, can we get a forum wide sticky for all of the brand dilution arguments? Scott26 made a great point in the recent thread about the 2 Series Active Tourer, that it is such vehicles that allow BMW to bring us the lower volume Ms. Just pin Scott's statement and be done with it.
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      02-16-2015, 04:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe
. BMW SAV styling is very "vannish" in general, and doing a long van styled SAV would equate to a minivan raised up a couple inches.
I don't think you've looked at enough minivans...
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      02-16-2015, 05:00 PM   #47
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I am very excited to see the X7. We are quickly outgrowing our X5 and need to upsize. The prospect of us trading in for something like the Infiniti QX80 really depresses my wife as much as it does me. Beyond that we have considered the Audi Q7, the Merc GL series or Yukon Denali.

To those who say why you would need a bigger vehicle? We have two children in full car seats, Recaro Pro-Rides specifically. With both of those seats mounted forward facing in the back seat - there is about 4" of room between the seats. There isn't any room for a passenger in between the seats, or anything else for that matter.

We are BMW owners and would prefer to keep it that way. Having the X7 available as a bigger alternative to our X5 would be fantastic.

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      02-16-2015, 05:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
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Originally Posted by Inablur View Post
Its just that there is almost an X - vehicle for every series. All we are missing is an x2 now. The porsche cayenne fits right in with the x5 and ML segment. Do we really need anything bigger than that? Its just that BMW are producing so many cars that not only is it diluting the brand. but the core elements that made bmw's stand above the rest. Nowadays we have mercs and audis that drive better than bmws and thats what Im essentially getting at. The company is becoming like toyota for people with money (and i thought that was a job for lexus)
The same sentiments that Porsche fans made when they introduced the Cayenne, Macan and Panamera...

Diluting the brand or not, BMW probably looks at Audi, Merc and Porsche and see that they make a good profit by expanding their model range.

Audi has:
Q3
Q5
Q7

MB has:
G-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
GL-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
GLA-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
GLB-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
GLK-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
M-Class Sports Utility Vehicle (SUV)
R-Class Multi Purpose Vehicle (MPV)

That BMW expands their model range into X3, X4, X5, X6 and X7 isn't such a big deal IMO. In fact, it would have been a bigger problem if BMW was stuck in the past because of old rigid principles that meant they could only make sedans. Old dinosaurs that can't adapt to a changing market tend to disappear after a while... If the market wants premium SUV's, and are willing to pay, then BMW has to look into those opportunities. Even Porsche decided they had to this. And BMW isn't as exclusive and premium as Porsche is. BMW is a mass manufacturer and profit (short and long term) is what the shareholders want.
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      02-16-2015, 05:19 PM   #49
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so I am guessing people interested in this have 3+ kids? I have a 4 and 6 year old and can't see needing more space than the X3 provides. I guess if I had 3-4 kids the X5 would be a little cramped (little trunk space when using all seats).
If you have 2 or less kids, why would you need something this size?
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      02-16-2015, 05:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako
so I am guessing people interested in this have 3+ kids? I have a 4 and 6 year old and can't see needing more space than the X3 provides. I guess if I had 3-4 kids the X5 would be a little cramped (little trunk space when using all seats).
If you have 2 or less kids, why would you need something this size?
Tall family.
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      02-16-2015, 06:17 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako
so I am guessing people interested in this have 3+ kids? I have a 4 and 6 year old and can't see needing more space than the X3 provides. I guess if I had 3-4 kids the X5 would be a little cramped (little trunk space when using all seats).
If you have 2 or less kids, why would you need something this size?
Asked and answered above.. 2 car seats leaves no room in the middle of an X5 let alone X3. We tried it for a while with an X3 and it was too much hassle, once you have 2 car seats in back and a stroller or double stroller in the trunk, just not much room left. x5 is miles better, but still not big enough for any extra passengers. Perfect for daily use and vacations but as soon as you want to pick up grandma or whatever, no can do.

My thoughts on an X7 is it gives me another option to a Q7 or GL (which I can't imagine I would like the driving dynamics) if/when we decide we need more room for our kids' friends when they get a little older. Could be useful now, but not enough that I would want anything bigger, yet.
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      02-16-2015, 06:32 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danconia
Mods, can we get a forum wide sticky for all of the brand dilution arguments? Scott26 made a great point in the recent thread about the 2 Series Active Tourer, that it is such vehicles that allow BMW to bring us the lower volume Ms. Just pin Scott's statement and be done with it.
Agree it's just like Cadillac and Lexus. Without the Chevys and the Toyotas these premium cars would not exist.

The only difference is that BMW sells its econoboxes and luxury cars under the same brand.
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      02-16-2015, 06:38 PM   #53
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I think it is in fact the new 7 series, they are putting those steel bars on the top to emulate the car's real weight when it is finished.
We will probably see this technique too with the prototype for the next 6 series.

Last edited by Manbnda; 02-16-2015 at 06:43 PM..
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      02-16-2015, 07:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
so I am guessing people interested in this have 3+ kids? I have a 4 and 6 year old and can't see needing more space than the X3 provides. I guess if I had 3-4 kids the X5 would be a little cramped (little trunk space when using all seats).
If you have 2 or less kids, why would you need something this size?
There's a guy two posts ^^ who has two kids and wants/needs one.

I'm with you though, we've got two kids and the X5 7-seater is all we'll ever need. And that includes for sports like cycling, skiing and kayaking.

These bigger classes, like the GL, are squarely aimed at the US market though. Our roads and urban infrastructure is not well suited to cars this big. A lot of Asian and European cities would struggle too.
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      02-16-2015, 08:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamsF80 View Post
I am very excited to see the X7. We are quickly outgrowing our X5 and need to upsize. The prospect of us trading in for something like the Infiniti QX80 really depresses my wife as much as it does me. Beyond that we have considered the Audi Q7, the Merc GL series or Yukon Denali.

To those who say why you would need a bigger vehicle? We have two children in full car seats, Recaro Pro-Rides specifically. With both of those seats mounted forward facing in the back seat - there is about 4" of room between the seats. There isn't any room for a passenger in between the seats, or anything else for that matter.

We are BMW owners and would prefer to keep it that way. Having the X7 available as a bigger alternative to our X5 would be fantastic.

Chris
This is exactly why I will buy an X7 as soon as possible. People without children do not get it. Our X5 is already almost too small with one child. The X7 will keep me from having to buy a GL.
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      02-16-2015, 08:17 PM   #56
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I needed it yesterday.
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      02-16-2015, 10:19 PM   #57
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For a car that will seat a large family comfortably, I would choose either the Pathfinder, Highlander, or even the new Discovery Sport. Purpose of this large SUV would be to do activities with it and I just can't see myself doing that in a BMW at double the price. Kids will be kids and I'd rather treat it as a beater family hauler than something I have to really take care of.

Maybe I'm just not in BMW's target demographics anymore as I can't even find 1 car in their current line up that I would want.
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      02-16-2015, 10:28 PM   #58
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For some reason this spy shot doesn't look like to be a mule for the new and up coming X7. I think the spied future 7 series look more like a security car mule based on examining the details of the equipped tires.
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      02-16-2015, 11:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Asked and answered above.. 2 car seats leaves no room in the middle of an X5 let alone X3. We tried it for a while with an X3 and it was too much hassle, once you have 2 car seats in back and a stroller or double stroller in the trunk, just not much room left. x5 is miles better, but still not big enough for any extra passengers. Perfect for daily use and vacations but as soon as you want to pick up grandma or whatever, no can do.

My thoughts on an X7 is it gives me another option to a Q7 or GL (which I can't imagine I would like the driving dynamics) if/when we decide we need more room for our kids' friends when they get a little older. Could be useful now, but not enough that I would want anything bigger, yet.
When you have two car seats, and you need to pick up grandma, you enter minivan territory. The X7, when it comes out, won't have the driving dynamics you are looking for. You'll end up with a vehicle that has the BMW badge, but it won't drive like one. Not that you need to take turns fast when you carry that many people. But if it won't be fun to drive, you may as well get a toyota minivan.

I have one child and a 3-series. I often ride with two grandmas, my wife, and the kid. It's fine for short trips, but they complain about the lack of space if we have to spend more than 30 minutes in the car. Rather than getting huge SUV... I'm thinking I need to keep my 3-series, and have a minivan on the side.
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      02-17-2015, 02:03 AM   #60
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I don't think X7 is a Q7 and GL rival, but a new niche so to say, that of luxury SUV. X7 will be rivalled by Audi Q8/Q9 and new GLS. So they'll be a lot more expensive, and far from being cheap family cars. If you have family get a van, not a SUV.
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      02-17-2015, 03:29 AM   #61
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It will be very interesting when X7 is officially launched.
We wait anxiously for his arrival.
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      02-17-2015, 03:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi
I don't think X7 is a Q7 and GL rival, but a new niche so to say, that of luxury SUV. X7 will be rivalled by Audi Q8/Q9 and new GLS. So they'll be a lot more expensive, and far from being cheap family cars. If you have family get a van, not a SUV.
I'm on my second GL and first kid. To me, the GL is a tremendous improvement in utility and luxury over an X5 or ML. The added space for cargo in the GL is a no brainer. A stroller and groceries or luggage almost overwhelms the X5 or ML. I don't even have to fold the stroller and still have room for groceries, etc. I can also get two people in the second row beside a big car seat. Plus, it rides like an S class, and the base 450 has a twin turbo v8 that runs great. Does it handle like my M4? No. But I don't want it to, especially after a trip. The ride/handling balance is nicely bent toward luxury, which you should expect. My biggest complaints are the electronics are not as good as BMW and the rear facing car seat prevents the passenger seat from going back as far as I like, but it is acceptable. I can't believe BMW waited this long to have a GL competitor. There are GLs everywhere around here for good reason.

I think the X7 is a direct competitor for the GL and will be a touch cheaper in true BMW fashion.
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      02-17-2015, 08:23 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppStoreMoney
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
Asked and answered above.. 2 car seats leaves no room in the middle of an X5 let alone X3. We tried it for a while with an X3 and it was too much hassle, once you have 2 car seats in back and a stroller or double stroller in the trunk, just not much room left. x5 is miles better, but still not big enough for any extra passengers. Perfect for daily use and vacations but as soon as you want to pick up grandma or whatever, no can do.

My thoughts on an X7 is it gives me another option to a Q7 or GL (which I can't imagine I would like the driving dynamics) if/when we decide we need more room for our kids' friends when they get a little older. Could be useful now, but not enough that I would want anything bigger, yet.
When you have two car seats, and you need to pick up grandma, you enter minivan territory. The X7, when it comes out, won't have the driving dynamics you are looking for. You'll end up with a vehicle that has the BMW badge, but it won't drive like one. Not that you need to take turns fast when you carry that many people. But if it won't be fun to drive, you may as well get a toyota minivan.

I have one child and a 3-series. I often ride with two grandmas, my wife, and the kid. It's fine for short trips, but they complain about the lack of space if we have to spend more than 30 minutes in the car. Rather than getting huge SUV... I'm thinking I need to keep my 3-series, and have a minivan on the side.
Obviously the bigger they get, they harder it will be to maintain driving dynamics, but the X5 has always (seemingly) defied those laws of physics. No reason to expect the X7 not to handle way, way better than a minivan. Nor does wanting one more viable seat for an adult necessitate a minivan, just a bigger car or SUV.

The exaggerations on here are both comical and exhausting sometimes. No, it won't handle like an M3. But it will drive and handle better than 90% of the other vehicles on the road of equal size. That is the point, not trying to compete with a small bedroom on wheels.

The only people that say "if you have a family, get a minivan" obviously don't have families and feel those of us that do must suddenly fail to care about how a car drives. We don't.... Kids aren't always in the car

Further, this segment, invented by BMW with the X5, is no longer new. The idea that anyone that needs more space than a 3 series should buy a Toyota Sienna is comical and ancient at this point. I've said this before, when I got my first X5 back in 2007, a friend asked me, "if you're going to buy a BMW, why get an SUV?" He had it backwards, I said, "I wanted an SUV, why wouldn't I get a BMW SUV?" So now becomes, "if I need a bigger SUV, why wouldn't I get a bigger BMW SUV..?"


Regarding the GL/Q7 comparisons, it is a direct competitor of the GL. Technically, the Q7 was an answer to the X5, but it has always been much longer.. So I can't see how the X7 won't be a more true competitor, or the Q7 may sit in between the X5/ML and X7/GL.

To me, the X5 is the perfect balance of size/utility/comfort and driving dynamics. So a bigger X7 will lose some of those dynamics, the same way an 3 series does compared to a 2, a 5 to a 3, etc. but sometimes you just need more room, so you get the most dynamic car that offers that room.
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      02-17-2015, 08:44 AM   #64
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Minivans are a much, much better solution though, and yes I have kids. 3 row SUV's are asinine at best, they make zero sense over a decent minivan.
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      02-17-2015, 08:45 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi
I don't think X7 is a Q7 and GL rival, but a new niche so to say, that of luxury SUV. X7 will be rivalled by Audi Q8/Q9 and new GLS. So they'll be a lot more expensive, and far from being cheap family cars. If you have family get a van, not a SUV.
I'm on my second GL and first kid. To me, the GL is a tremendous improvement in utility and luxury over an X5 or ML. The added space for cargo in the GL is a no brainer. A stroller and groceries or luggage almost overwhelms the X5 or ML. I don't even have to fold the stroller and still have room for groceries, etc. I can also get two people in the second row beside a big car seat. Plus, it rides like an S class, and the base 450 has a twin turbo v8 that runs great. Does it handle like my M4? No. But I don't want it to, especially after a trip. The ride/handling balance is nicely bent toward luxury, which you should expect. My biggest complaints are the electronics are not as good as BMW and the rear facing car seat prevents the passenger seat from going back as far as I like, but it is acceptable. I can't believe BMW waited this long to have a GL competitor. There are GLs everywhere around here for good reason.

I think the X7 is a direct competitor for the GL and will be a touch cheaper in true BMW fashion.
+1. I see more GL's than ML's at this point and even had a friend tell me they drove both and felt the bigger, longer GL handled better. Can't say as I've not driven a GL, but we had a 2010 ML and it drove like a pickup truck. I've always assumed the GL would be worse, so felt, for me, the only option if we wanted bigger was a Q7. Not sure I like the new design of that, so I'm glad there's an X7 coming. Whether I'll decide we need it or not remains to be seen, but I'm glad to have the option.
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      02-17-2015, 08:48 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti
Minivans are a much, much better solution though, and yes I have kids. 3 row SUV's are asinine at best, they make zero sense over a decent minivan.
You are 100% correct, IF all you care about is utility.
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