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      01-08-2020, 11:01 AM   #661
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I am surprised there is that much flexibility on the deal/financing part when you order a car between the order placement and delivery. Good for the consumer, but seems like more risk for the dealer.

I am now even more looking forward to my first time car ordering experience and negotiating the deal (I am leaning towards financing right now), hopefully by late Spring or early Summer. Especially since I am eligible for 3 of the 4 main incentives/credits BMW offers. Too bad the finance credit will probably not be as high in the Spring as it is now (Winter) since I assume car sales are generally better in the Spring/Summer as opposed to Fall/Winter.....
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      01-08-2020, 08:08 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by Auricom View Post
Ouch at your MF rate - 0.00168 = 4.03%. They're giving you a nice discount but making it back up in finance.

Base was 0.00128 / 3.07% if you signed before Jan 6 or 0.00137 / 3.27% from Jan 6 on.

Compared to 0.00128 - that's roughly $58 more per month or $2088 over the term of your lease.

Compared to 0.00137 - it's roughly $45 more per month or $1620 over the term of your lease.

You can definitely renegotiate MF at time of delivery - though you may have to accept the lease program for that month's delivery, hard to say.
Thanks for the response. I ddnt do my ground work enough here with respect to MF but I couldn't find any dealer in CA offering base MF. I am planning to do 7 MSD's to bring down the MF. Based on few of the above comments; MF and residual are locked while placing the order and can't be negotiated at the time of delivery. Is my assumption correct?

With respect to deposit while booking the order, I had another dealer asking for 5K security deposit. My local dealer asked for $500 as deposit. I wrote a cheque which they will hold and return at the time of delivery. Do you guys think I can still negotiate MF and possibly look at another dealer(who agrees for base MF) before picking up delivery ?
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      01-08-2020, 09:31 PM   #663
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I think you have a couple of options:
1) Get a new lease deal from an out of state dealer and pay to get the car shipped to you. It will definitely be cheaper than paying the higher MF. Only thing is I think the residuals are 1% lower now so need to take that into account. Let me know if you need a good contact.
2) Speak with a leasing company. I routinely get deals from leasing companies that are substantially better than the dealers offers. They buy in bulk and are effectively able to negotiate better pricing.
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      01-08-2020, 09:55 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basuka_13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auricom View Post
Ouch at your MF rate - 0.00168 = 4.03%. They're giving you a nice discount but making it back up in finance.

Base was 0.00128 / 3.07% if you signed before Jan 6 or 0.00137 / 3.27% from Jan 6 on.

Compared to 0.00128 - that's roughly $58 more per month or $2088 over the term of your lease.

Compared to 0.00137 - it's roughly $45 more per month or $1620 over the term of your lease.

You can definitely renegotiate MF at time of delivery - though you may have to accept the lease program for that month's delivery, hard to say.
Thanks for the response. I ddnt do my ground work enough here with respect to MF but I couldn't find any dealer in CA offering base MF. I am planning to do 7 MSD's to bring down the MF. Based on few of the above comments; MF and residual are locked while placing the order and can't be negotiated at the time of delivery. Is my assumption correct?

With respect to deposit while booking the order, I had another dealer asking for 5K security deposit. My local dealer asked for $500 as deposit. I wrote a cheque which they will hold and return at the time of delivery. Do you guys think I can still negotiate MF and possibly look at another dealer(who agrees for base MF) before picking up delivery ?
Sent you a PM with a TLDR; reply LOL
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      01-08-2020, 10:00 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aas5 View Post
I think you have a couple of options:
1) Get a new lease deal from an out of state dealer and pay to get the car shipped to you. It will definitely be cheaper than paying the higher MF. Only thing is I think the residuals are 1% lower now so need to take that into account. Let me know if you need a good contact.
2) Speak with a leasing company. I routinely get deals from leasing companies that are substantially better than the dealers offers. They buy in bulk and are effectively able to negotiate better pricing.
I agree with the above. Leveraging a lease broker seems to be a good approach if you're having issues with local dealers hesitant to make a dealer.

Another is going out of state and having it shipped or experience a BMW Performance Center delivery - you'll still need to have it shipped or enjoy a cross country road trip home. During my PCD there was an owner taking delivery of their X7 and driving it back to Colorado.
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      01-08-2020, 10:14 PM   #666
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Originally Posted by Auricom View Post
I agree with the above. Leveraging a lease broker seems to be a good approach if you're having issues with local dealers hesitant to make a dealer.

Another is going out of state and having it shipped or experience a BMW Performance Center delivery - you'll still need to have it shipped or enjoy a cross country road trip home. During my PCD there was an owner taking delivery of their X7 and driving it back to Colorado.
I was going to suggest the same but it would be quite a drive back to CA (although it will take care of your break-in
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      01-09-2020, 05:50 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by gotzillar View Post
Here is the deal I signed,

2020 X7 M50i $103445 MSRP
9% off MSRP
$1000 lease credit
$500 corp program credit
58% residual
0.00148 MF
bought windshield and key replacement for $800
$0 drive off
Monthly payment: $1355

Would you mind sharing the dealer you went to? I'm in Houston as well and am looking for the best deal in this area. Thanks
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      01-09-2020, 10:56 AM   #668
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Would you mind sharing the dealer you went to? I'm in Houston as well and am looking for the best deal in this area. Thanks
Momentum and Advantage both would do it but needed to work real hard at the right time.
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      01-09-2020, 11:45 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by gotzillar View Post
Momentum and Advantage both would do it but needed to work real hard at the right time.

Thanks. I have a few months left on my current lease so I have flexibility to wait until the numbers are right to pull the trigger.
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      01-09-2020, 04:48 PM   #670
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What kind of prices are you seeing for X7's? Built an X7 M50i with an MSRP of 112,125.00. I made an offer of 102,033.00. Roughly 9% off MSRP. Good deal or go back for more off?
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      01-09-2020, 09:54 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by jbdennard View Post
What kind of prices are you seeing for X7's? Built an X7 M50i with an MSRP of 112,125.00. I made an offer of 102,033.00. Roughly 9% off MSRP. Good deal or go back for more off?
Is the 9% inclusive of incentives?
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      01-09-2020, 09:57 PM   #672
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No - 9% off MSRP then another $3000.00 rebate after that.
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      01-09-2020, 10:01 PM   #673
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No - 9% off MSRP then another $3000.00 rebate after that.
That's a pretty good deal. I've seen some people grab 10%, but I got 9% off pre-incentive as well.
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      01-10-2020, 06:11 AM   #674
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So I have a negotiating question regarding incentives based on the last few posts... I have read in multiple places that when negotiating, it is always best to negotiate the final price of the car BEFORE bringing any incentives/credits/rebates to the table. But since those credits are a direct profit for the dealer (essentially cash directly from the manufacturer to the dealer) wouldn't it be good to use those incentives in parallel with negotiating the initial offer price?

For example, BMW currently offers 4 basic credits for new car sales: Finance/Lease, Loyalty, Military, and College Graduate - each with a certain monetary value that is profit for the dealer. If a buyer is qualified for more credits, which means more profit for the dealer regardless of the final sale price, wouldn't the dealer be more willing to offer a higher percentage off MSRP?

In my case, I am eligible for 3 of those 4 credits, which this month equates to a total credit of $4250. So my initial offer to a dealer might be: "I want 10% off MSRP and I am eligible for a total BMW credit of $4250" (I plan to finance, not lease, but I would not mention that yet at this point in the negotiations). 10% off MSRP is on the higher end of what people seem to be getting. But I would think a dealer would be more willing give to a higher percentage off MSRP due to the credits I am eligible for (which I believe is higher than your average buyer). Am I off in my negotiating logic?
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      01-10-2020, 06:56 AM   #675
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I think you are correct. I negotiated 9% off retail and then applied the rebates on top of the 9%.
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      01-10-2020, 07:47 AM   #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmciver View Post
So I have a negotiating question regarding incentives based on the last few posts... I have read in multiple places that when negotiating, it is always best to negotiate the final price of the car BEFORE bringing any incentives/credits/rebates to the table. But since those credits are a direct profit for the dealer (essentially cash directly from the manufacturer to the dealer) wouldn't it be good to use those incentives in parallel with negotiating the initial offer price?

For example, BMW currently offers 4 basic credits for new car sales: Finance/Lease, Loyalty, Military, and College Graduate - each with a certain monetary value that is profit for the dealer. If a buyer is qualified for more credits, which means more profit for the dealer regardless of the final sale price, wouldn't the dealer be more willing to offer a higher percentage off MSRP?

In my case, I am eligible for 3 of those 4 credits, which this month equates to a total credit of $4250. So my initial offer to a dealer might be: "I want 10% off MSRP and I am eligible for a total BMW credit of $4250" (I plan to finance, not lease, but I would not mention that yet at this point in the negotiations). 10% off MSRP is on the higher end of what people seem to be getting. But I would think a dealer would be more willing give to a higher percentage off MSRP due to the credits I am eligible for (which I believe is higher than your average buyer). Am I off in my negotiating logic?
I donít think there is any difference. Incentives are publicly disclosed so both you and the dealer should know what they are. I am also not sure if the dealer benefits from the incentives but I may be wrong. I would focus on getting the largest discount off MSRP and then roll in your incentives. I usually call 5-7 local dealers to get quotes and also 2-4 leasing companies, get a sense of best possible discounts in the market and use that as a target for my deal. I benefit from being in the NY area where there is a lot more competition so you may not be able to do as well. FWIW, I negotiated an 11% off MSRP + incentives on my ordered 2020 x7 M50 at the end of December. I think it will be difficult to get the same deal now because many dealers are most aggressive in December as they are trying to maximize the total number of cars they sell in a fiscal year to get additional incentives. It is worth a try.
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      01-10-2020, 10:05 AM   #677
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Has anyone been able to negotiate 9-10% of MSRP and *base MF* for an X7 40i order?
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      01-10-2020, 10:18 AM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aas5 View Post
I donít think there is any difference. Incentives are publicly disclosed so both you and the dealer should know what they are. I am also not sure if the dealer benefits from the incentives but I may be wrong. I would focus on getting the largest discount off MSRP and then roll in your incentives. I usually call 5-7 local dealers to get quotes and also 2-4 leasing companies, get a sense of best possible discounts in the market and use that as a target for my deal. I benefit from being in the NY area where there is a lot more competition so you may not be able to do as well. FWIW, I negotiated an 11% off MSRP + incentives on my ordered 2020 x7 M50 at the end of December. I think it will be difficult to get the same deal now because many dealers are most aggressive in December as they are trying to maximize the total number of cars they sell in a fiscal year to get additional incentives. It is worth a try.
Based on my research on how rebates/incentives work, the dealer does benefit directly from them. As I mentioned, the incentive is the manufacturer (BMW in this case) giving the dealer the incentive/rebate (i.e. cash) that is a direct profit to the dealer for the sale of the vehicle. Additionally, legally the dealer must give the entire incentive to the buyer as well. So for example, if the incentive is $3000, the dealer can't offer the buyer $1500 off MSRP (thus boosting the dealer profit), but must offer the entire $3000 incentive off MSRP. So, the more incentives a buyer is qualified for, the more "cash" the dealer will get from the manufacturer if the sale goes through. My question is more strategy based.... If I offer "12% off MSRP" which is pretty agressive, will I not even get a response. But if I offer "12% off MSRP and I am qualified for $4250 in rebates" as my initial offer, will the dealer be willing to negotiate (or even accept the deal) - it is all about the nuances as I prepare to negotiate the best deal I can. But as I mentioned, conventional wisdom seems to be that you should not even mention incentives until AFTER you get a fixed price - but it seems to me that offering a price combined with qualified incentives may be a better tactic. Of course, YMMV, but it is nice to get insight from those with more experience in this area....

To your point about time of year wrt how willing dealers are to offer better deals, that is a variable definitely at play and is what it is I guess. Although, the $4250 in incentives that I am qualified for based on the Jan 2020 update is the highest I have seen thus far (which surprised me admittedly). I am in the DMV area, with a lot of dealers within a 50 mile radius around DC. But I plan to reach out to dealers within a 500 mile radius, specifically targeting high volume dealers, in an effort to get the best deal.
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      01-10-2020, 11:00 AM   #679
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Got it, that's helpful.
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      01-10-2020, 11:16 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer73 View Post
Has anyone been able to negotiate 9-10% of MSRP and *base MF* for an X7 40i order?
Yes.
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      01-10-2020, 12:39 PM   #681
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Yes
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      01-10-2020, 12:55 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmciver View Post
So I have a negotiating question regarding incentives based on the last few posts... I have read in multiple places that when negotiating, it is always best to negotiate the final price of the car BEFORE bringing any incentives/credits/rebates to the table. But since those credits are a direct profit for the dealer (essentially cash directly from the manufacturer to the dealer) wouldn't it be good to use those incentives in parallel with negotiating the initial offer price?

For example, BMW currently offers 4 basic credits for new car sales: Finance/Lease, Loyalty, Military, and College Graduate - each with a certain monetary value that is profit for the dealer. If a buyer is qualified for more credits, which means more profit for the dealer regardless of the final sale price, wouldn't the dealer be more willing to offer a higher percentage off MSRP?

In my case, I am eligible for 3 of those 4 credits, which this month equates to a total credit of $4250. So my initial offer to a dealer might be: "I want 10% off MSRP and I am eligible for a total BMW credit of $4250" (I plan to finance, not lease, but I would not mention that yet at this point in the negotiations). 10% off MSRP is on the higher end of what people seem to be getting. But I would think a dealer would be more willing give to a higher percentage off MSRP due to the credits I am eligible for (which I believe is higher than your average buyer). Am I off in my negotiating logic?
I agree with you. I tend to find some client advisors try and muddy the water/obscure the manufacture discounts in various ways by hiding the incentives in the overall MSRP discount. Thus making it look like you are getting a big discount, when your really not.

Also find the transaction to be cleaner and easier to negotiate when you first negotiate the MSRP discount pre incentive. Plus manufacture money can change month to month, and by securing the pre incentive discount, your discount is more "guaranteed".
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