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      03-15-2019, 03:18 PM   #1
greentrbo95gst
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Order in for MY19 X7 50i- Complaint about dealers

This has been a challenging two months with 10+ dealers and I finally placed my order outside of a dealer network with much better price and customer service. I have done over 14 orders for bmw vehicles over the last 10 years, majority with BMW FS. I have done ED and PCD deliveries and always loved the brand. My bmw contact left the car scene after 20 years and all of a sudden I realized how much he fought for my cause with every single order. Cars essentially sell themselves because of their reputation in the market and many employees of the dealerships take big advantage of it. They are lazy, they don't care, they do not follow simple common sense strategies and there no follow up with someone who is trying to legitimately order the order the car. I will describe one example out of many that I have dealt with in the last two months of trying to order an x7.
I went to Irvine BMW because they had the x7 on the floor. I went with my wife and two little kids. We know the brand, we love the brand, we currently have four BMW's between my wife and I and we are fanatics. The goal was to check out the interior since LA Auto show did not allow us to go inside, figure out the seat configuration (decide between the bench and the captain chairs) and take the car for a test drive. My wife currently has a Carbon Black M Sport F15 X5 Diesel with M Performance 21" wheels so it's very different.
As soon as we walked in the gentlemen in the front seemed annoyed that we asked for help on the sales side and one would not even turn his back to us so we had to talk to the back of his head. Finally sales guy shows up and says he cant help us because he has an appt. I looked at his office later and he was watching a movie on his computer. Another guy came up and let us check out the car; I then asked for a test drive and he looked up and down and said do you know anything about this car. I usually suit up during the week, but on the weekends since we live by the beach I dress down a lot and I guess he made an assumption. He said they don't allow test drives because they don't want to put miles on the car. I told him BMW NA TV Commercial clearly states "come drive one of the new x7's at our dealer locations" He responded that BMW NA is a different entity and has different rules. He left and when he returned he asked us not to use any of the electric buttons because it drains the battery. At that point my wife was like WTH....use a battery charger then.
I tested his knowledge about PCD and he had no idea what it was and why would people pick up the car in SC. I then told him, get me a deal for 10k/36 mo lease and handed him my spec sheet. I said I am ready to put a deposit down. He was to lazy to work the deal and told me he would call me with the deal. Guess what, the call never came. I complained to the GM and copied BMW NA customer relations on the email and the GM copied his General Sales Manager and said he would get back to me same day to take the order. Nobody ever contacted me. What do I have to do to place the order???? Why don't they care. I secretly hope for another recession in the car industry to teach them a lesson. Similar story with bunch of other dealers in the area.
I started researching other options and my friend suggested a guy that has owned a company for the past 39 years that leases major brand cars for customers- he places an order on your behalf and negotiates on your behalf. He then gets a kick back from the factory just like a dealer. Two other friends have used him in the past so I decided to give him a try. He is 70 so sometimes it takes a little longer to handle things, but we got it done and originally I planned a 40i car because of the payment, but he was able to get me the 50i for a little more. We initially thought we can get the car at Invoice, but BMW Fleet changed the price on him because of the demand and I got Invoice plus $2500. Still a much better deal then any of the shady dealers.

If you want to know his contact PM me your name and number and I will have him call you.


My specs are :
X7 xDrive50i

4.4-liter TwinPower Turbo V-8 xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive

STANDARD FEATURES
BASE MSRP$92,600
DESIGN
M Sport Design$3,550
COLORCarbon Black Metallic
WHEELS21" Double-spoke bi-color orbit grey wheels, style 754M with all-season runflat
UPHOLSTERYTartufo Extended Merino Leather$1,000
TRIMAsh Grain Black with Bronze Effect MatteFinish Wood Trim
PACKAGES + OPTIONS
Cold Weather Package$1,200
Luxury Seating Package$1,200
Premium Package$1,550
M Sport Brakes$650
Display Key$300
Glass Controls$650
Leather Dashboard$1,200
Panoramic Sky Lounge LED Roof$750
Second-Row Captain's Chairs$600
DESTINATION + HANDLING$995
TOTAL MSRP as Built$106,245

My Net Cap Cost was 103k


Sorry for the long rant, but I think our dealers need a awakening.
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      03-15-2019, 04:00 PM   #2
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Invoice + 2500 is absurd. People need to demand MSRP -10% on all new BMWs. The masses need to push back against the massive price increases on these cars.
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      03-15-2019, 05:35 PM   #3
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Some car sales guys are just a waste of time, unfortunately it sounds like op had this experience with 10+ dealers...I thought Crevier bmw in Santa Ana is a good one. Glad you got what you like in the end!
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      03-15-2019, 06:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst View Post
This has been a challenging two months with 10+ dealers and I finally placed my order outside of a dealer network with much better price and customer service. I have done over 14 orders for bmw vehicles over the last 10 years, majority with BMW FS. I have done ED and PCD deliveries and always loved the brand. My bmw contact left the car scene after 20 years and all of a sudden I realized how much he fought for my cause with every single order. Cars essentially sell themselves because of their reputation in the market and many employees of the dealerships take big advantage of it. They are lazy, they don't care, they do not follow simple common sense strategies and there no follow up with someone who is trying to legitimately order the order the car. I will describe one example out of many that I have dealt with in the last two months of trying to order an x7.
I went to Irvine BMW because they had the x7 on the floor. I went with my wife and two little kids. We know the brand, we love the brand, we currently have four BMW's between my wife and I and we are fanatics. The goal was to check out the interior since LA Auto show did not allow us to go inside, figure out the seat configuration (decide between the bench and the captain chairs) and take the car for a test drive. My wife currently has a Carbon Black M Sport F15 X5 Diesel with M Performance 21" wheels so it's very different.
As soon as we walked in the gentlemen in the front seemed annoyed that we asked for help on the sales side and one would not even turn his back to us so we had to talk to the back of his head. Finally sales guy shows up and says he cant help us because he has an appt. I looked at his office later and he was watching a movie on his computer. Another guy came up and let us check out the car; I then asked for a test drive and he looked up and down and said do you know anything about this car. I usually suit up during the week, but on the weekends since we live by the beach I dress down a lot and I guess he made an assumption. He said they don't allow test drives because they don't want to put miles on the car. I told him BMW NA TV Commercial clearly states "come drive one of the new x7's at our dealer locations" He responded that BMW NA is a different entity and has different rules. He left and when he returned he asked us not to use any of the electric buttons because it drains the battery. At that point my wife was like WTH....use a battery charger then.
I tested his knowledge about PCD and he had no idea what it was and why would people pick up the car in SC. I then told him, get me a deal for 10k/36 mo lease and handed him my spec sheet. I said I am ready to put a deposit down. He was to lazy to work the deal and told me he would call me with the deal. Guess what, the call never came. I complained to the GM and copied BMW NA customer relations on the email and the GM copied his General Sales Manager and said he would get back to me same day to take the order. Nobody ever contacted me. What do I have to do to place the order???? Why don't they care. I secretly hope for another recession in the car industry to teach them a lesson. Similar story with bunch of other dealers in the area.
I started researching other options and my friend suggested a guy that has owned a company for the past 39 years that leases major brand cars for customers- he places an order on your behalf and negotiates on your behalf. He then gets a kick back from the factory just like a dealer. Two other friends have used him in the past so I decided to give him a try. He is 70 so sometimes it takes a little longer to handle things, but we got it done and originally I planned a 40i car because of the payment, but he was able to get me the 50i for a little more. We initially thought we can get the car at Invoice, but BMW Fleet changed the price on him because of the demand and I got Invoice plus $2500. Still a much better deal then any of the shady dealers.

If you want to know his contact PM me your name and number and I will have him call you.


My specs are :
X7 xDrive50i

4.4-liter TwinPower Turbo V-8 xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive

STANDARD FEATURES
BASE MSRP$92,600
DESIGN
M Sport Design$3,550
COLORCarbon Black Metallic
WHEELS21" Double-spoke bi-color orbit grey wheels, style 754M with all-season runflat
UPHOLSTERYTartufo Extended Merino Leather$1,000
TRIMAsh Grain Black with Bronze Effect MatteFinish Wood Trim
PACKAGES + OPTIONS
Cold Weather Package$1,200
Luxury Seating Package$1,200
Premium Package$1,550
M Sport Brakes$650
Display Key$300
Glass Controls$650
Leather Dashboard$1,200
Panoramic Sky Lounge LED Roof$750
Second-Row Captain's Chairs$600
DESTINATION + HANDLING$995
TOTAL MSRP as Built$106,245

My Net Cap Cost was 103k


Sorry for the long rant, but I think our dealers need a awakening.
Went through something similar by my. BEGGED for a salesman to sell me an x5 and x7. Finally ended up splitting the order between two other dealers. Itís shocking how dumb, lazy, inconsiderate and just plain not appreciative some of these guys are of our dollar
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      03-15-2019, 07:31 PM   #5
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That's absolutely horrible. I've always felt that some of those higher end salesmen had an attitude with me, too but this is truly detestable. Sorry that you had to deal with such idiots.

Good for you for seeing above these morons.
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      03-16-2019, 06:46 AM   #6
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The reality is that as sales continue to grow (which is an objective of all auto groups, BMW included) they will attempt to reduce the role of the CA. Reduce the role of the CA, and the barrier to entry for becoming one becomes even lower (already super low as it is). So expect to have worse and worse CAs as time goes on.

Now as for how their managers treat customers, that's a different story. Obviously depends on where the store is located an how likely they are to be able to pull off shenanigans. High demand areas they can get away with more.

All we can do is empower ourselves to know what is fair and what isn't as far as pricing and be firm about finding something that's fair.
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      03-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #7
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Wow! I had almost the same exact experience at a few different socal BMW dealers! I thought I was the only one!

I mean shockingly similar! At one place the sales guy made me wait in the showroom for him for about 20 minutes, we could see him standing around talking with other people in a relaxed way not doing any work for most of that 20 mins. Finally after we started pointing at him and visibly laughing he came over to help us. When I walk into Ferrari I always get prompt service. But oh no, this is BMW, the next level!

The two dealers I went to acted like the x7 is a Ferrari. They would let me drive it and didn't have any problems with me poking around at everything with the car but when it came to buying the car none wanted to really help me place an order and acted like I would be lucky to get one, which was surprising. I was telling them I want to lease the car and they were asking me a million questions to make sure I could afford it (if only they could see my car collection... &#128513. In the end one told me he would only sell it at a 5k markup and I was lucky since most customers were paying 10k markup so he was giving me a deal. Who the hell is dumb enough to pay a markup on a family hauler?? Haha. Yes these BMW dealers lost me as a customer forever. I've also emailed a few more dealers and almost all of them have the similar attitude. None will talk price with me over email, because they will probably try to get me into the dealership to give me a markup. They want me to drive In to the dealership to pay a markup. Ok sure no problem. I don't think it's worth it for BMW in the long term when they have these shady tactics and I'm sure they have lost other customers too. You see Mercedes gls and land rovers everywhere in this area, dealers bend over backward to sell those cars and do give discounts on both (not too much on land raver but atleast a little). Bmw will shoot itself in the foot here with this crazy attitude.

I actually do want an x7 and am willing to pay the price bmw is asking but because dealerships are creating roadblocks I have to get a benz. Isn't that strange for a family SUV? I feel like I live in bizarroland! Also secretly I think a lot of us know the new GLS will probably be better then x7 so bmw losing sales now when BMW has the edge seems double stupid to me.

Bmw already lost me because these guys tires me out and I guess selling 90k cars is beneath them, but maybee someone from BMW would read this and change their ways for future sales
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      03-16-2019, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Wow! I had almost the same exact experience at a few different socal BMW dealers! I thought I was the only one!

I mean shockingly similar! At one place the sales guy made me wait in the showroom for him for about 20 minutes, we could see him standing around talking with other people in a relaxed way not doing any work for most of that 20 mins. Finally after we started pointing at him and visibly laughing he came over to help us. When I walk into Ferrari I always get prompt service. But oh no, this is BMW, the next level!

The two dealers I went to acted like the x7 is a Ferrari. They would let me drive it and didn't have any problems with me poking around at everything with the car but when it came to buying the car none wanted to really help me place an order and acted like I would be lucky to get one, which was surprising. I was telling them I want to lease the car and they were asking me a million questions to make sure I could afford it (if only they could see my car collection... &#128513. In the end one told me he would only sell it at a 5k markup and I was lucky since most customers were paying 10k markup so he was giving me a deal. Who the hell is dumb enough to pay a markup on a family hauler?? Haha. Yes these BMW dealers lost me as a customer forever. I've also emailed a few more dealers and almost all of them have the similar attitude. None will talk price with me over email, because they will probably try to get me into the dealership to give me a markup. They want me to drive In to the dealership to pay a markup. Ok sure no problem. I don't think it's worth it for BMW in the long term when they have these shady tactics and I'm sure they have lost other customers too. You see Mercedes gls and land rovers everywhere in this area, dealers bend over backward to sell those cars and do give discounts on both (not too much on land raver but atleast a little). Bmw will shoot itself in the foot here with this crazy attitude.

I actually do want an x7 and am willing to pay the price bmw is asking but because dealerships are creating roadblocks I have to get a benz. Isn't that strange for a family SUV? I feel like I live in bizarroland! Also secretly I think a lot of us know the new GLS will probably be better then x7 so bmw losing sales now when BMW has the edge seems double stupid to me.

Bmw already lost me because these guys tires me out and I guess selling 90k cars is beneath them, but maybee someone from BMW would read this and change their ways for future sales
It's a Cali problem, I think. Consider out of state. I can set you up with a contact. Not sure what deal you'll get but you wont be treated poorly.

Re GLS, I do think it will be bigger and more accommodating inside, but that the exterior will be a matter of personal preference vs the X7. Based on the GLE alone, I think I'll prefer the x7 to the new GLS. But only time will tell.

Three more things.

1. Benz is working very hard these days to work through old inventory of an outgoing generation before introducing the new. I expect a slow ramp up of GLS production, for that reason.
2. There is usually visual differentiation between the 6 and the V8 with the GLS. The X7 can look the same whether its the 40 or 50. For me, the 500/550 trim was always worth it cause they didn't offer AMG trim on the 450 in the US. Maybe that will change but something to think about.
3. The GLE gets very pricy quick. The GLS will likely be similar. I expect it to cost more than a similarly optioned x7, based on what I'm seeing with the GLE, but i Could be wrong.
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      03-16-2019, 12:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Wow! I had almost the same exact experience at a few different socal BMW dealers! I thought I was the only one!

I mean shockingly similar! At one place the sales guy made me wait in the showroom for him for about 20 minutes, we could see him standing around talking with other people in a relaxed way not doing any work for most of that 20 mins. Finally after we started pointing at him and visibly laughing he came over to help us. When I walk into Ferrari I always get prompt service. But oh no, this is BMW, the next level!

The two dealers I went to acted like the x7 is a Ferrari. They would let me drive it and didn't have any problems with me poking around at everything with the car but when it came to buying the car none wanted to really help me place an order and acted like I would be lucky to get one, which was surprising. I was telling them I want to lease the car and they were asking me a million questions to make sure I could afford it (if only they could see my car collection... &#128513. In the end one told me he would only sell it at a 5k markup and I was lucky since most customers were paying 10k markup so he was giving me a deal. Who the hell is dumb enough to pay a markup on a family hauler?? Haha. Yes these BMW dealers lost me as a customer forever. I've also emailed a few more dealers and almost all of them have the similar attitude. None will talk price with me over email, because they will probably try to get me into the dealership to give me a markup. They want me to drive In to the dealership to pay a markup. Ok sure no problem. I don't think it's worth it for BMW in the long term when they have these shady tactics and I'm sure they have lost other customers too. You see Mercedes gls and land rovers everywhere in this area, dealers bend over backward to sell those cars and do give discounts on both (not too much on land raver but atleast a little). Bmw will shoot itself in the foot here with this crazy attitude.

I actually do want an x7 and am willing to pay the price bmw is asking but because dealerships are creating roadblocks I have to get a benz. Isn't that strange for a family SUV? I feel like I live in bizarroland! Also secretly I think a lot of us know the new GLS will probably be better then x7 so bmw losing sales now when BMW has the edge seems double stupid to me.

Bmw already lost me because these guys tires me out and I guess selling 90k cars is beneath them, but maybee someone from BMW would read this and change their ways for future sales
It's a Cali problem, I think. Consider out of state. I can set you up with a contact. Not sure what deal you'll get but you wont be treated poorly.

Re GLS, I do think it will be bigger and more accommodating inside, but that the exterior will be a matter of personal preference vs the X7. Based on the GLE alone, I think I'll prefer the x7 to the new GLS. But only time will tell.

Three more things.

1. Benz is working very hard these days to work through old inventory of an outgoing generation before introducing the new. I expect a slow ramp up of GLS production, for that reason.
2. There is usually visual differentiation between the 6 and the V8 with the GLS. The X7 can look the same whether its the 40 or 50. For me, the 500/550 trim was always worth it cause they didn't offer AMG trim on the 450 in the US. Maybe that will change but something to think about.
3. The GLE gets very pricy quick. The GLS will likely be similar. I expect it to cost more than a similarly optioned x7, based on what I'm seeing with the GLE, but i Could be wrong.
I did try out of state with one dealer but was told they couldn't work with ppl out of their region. Sounds like Range Rover tactics.

Honestly these shady dealers tired me out so I went to Mercedes and the process was super smooth. For now I have a deposit on 3 row gle. Brand new car and I was given discount. I would cancel my order very quickly if a reasonable bmw dealer appeared but it's crazy that after 5-6 dealers I would have to chase a normal dealer down. I think I lasted long and other people would get tired faster then me. I think this piss poor dealer experience is a black mark on BMW and they can't keep hiding behind dealers being "independent". Customer service in most any other franchise is pretty much the same where you go and high quality. So if all these dealers act the same, maybee it's on purpose. So bmw lost me and I'm a peon so what but I bet there are others. Especially when you are spending this much on a car that's not even a sports car or something you find that special at this price you cannot act like that. Mercedes understands that in my opinion which is why they are the king of this segment of cars. They give us what we want without a hassle or headache.

Also with the pricing I hear what you are saying and on paper Mercedes can be more pricy but when you actually sit down and buy a car, which Mercedes do you ever buy without a steep discount from MSRP? Even the amg GTS sells with discount. I think only the new g wagon is being sold without any discount. So the reality is I can rightnow get a gls with an almost 20k higher MSRP for lower total cost then an x7 with minimal options. That doesn't make any sense. Yes the gls is old, but it will likely be a similar story with new gls once inventory builds up.

Bmw is mismanaging this x7 and since I'm being treated similarly at several dealers either BMW has lost complete control of its brand sales or they are doing it on purpose to try to make the car exclusive. It's an awesome car and I really loved x7 but it is not a Range Rover or g wagon or Ferrari and never will be and all the shady dealer tricks in the world will not make it that.
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      03-16-2019, 05:20 PM   #10
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I would say it's a Cali thing, with a bigger population and sales my speculation is that the dealers in the region got cocky and thought a dozen others would come buy it if you are not buying, so they dont care at all. Last Thursday I went to bother the same sales guy the fourth time at my local bmw dealer and he is still nice as the first time, we talked about the X7s, test drove a 40i they have and he mentioned a shiney and loaded X7 50i available on the lot--somebody turned it down because they thought third row climate control is standard on the 50i and ordered without cold weather pkg(mostly useless in AZ), when the car arrived they were disappointed and got their deposit back. I got to say my experience with the dealers is very different, no mark-ups were ever mentioned and for numerous times he told us how easy it is to build it online at home and send the information over, or just do it at his cube like the traditional way, all welcome.
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      03-17-2019, 07:02 AM   #11
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Surprisingly completely opposite experience from what I had in the NY/NJ area. Test drove x7 without any hassle. Also received A great deal but have a long relationship with the dealer and purchased many cars from them. Either way I concur with your experience anytime I walked into any Porsche dealer hence why I never walk out with a Porsche.

Last edited by 4DRS55; 03-17-2019 at 08:25 PM..
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      03-17-2019, 10:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 4DRS55 View Post
Surprisingly completely opposite experience from what I had in the NY/NJ area. Test drove x7 without any hassle. Also received Invoice pricing plus if I refer anyone they would do invoice plus ~ 1k but who knows. Either way I concur with your experience anytime I walked into any Porsche dealer hence why I never walk out with a Porsche.
Do you mind sharing which dealer you got the X7 from? I will place an order soon and looking for a good dealer in the NY area.
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      03-17-2019, 11:04 AM   #13
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Do you mind sharing which dealer you got the X7 from? I will place an order soon and looking for a good dealer in the NY area.
Pm sent
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      03-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #14
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Irvine is one of the worst. I have "considered" buying through them a half dozen times in the last 10 years and every time I literally walk out after 10 minutes. Unless you pull up in a JDM'd M4, they don't pay attention. Tried to buy an Alpina B7 there and couldn't even get a test drive. insane.
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      03-17-2019, 04:25 PM   #15
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Can I have your BMW contact as well. I’m in Dix Hills Long Island. Thanks
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      03-17-2019, 09:12 PM   #16
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They are mostly all horrible, lazy, and less educated on the brand they are selling than anyone right off the street. Car salesman are going to go way if the Dodo in my lifetime. But..also seems to be exacerbated in the republic of Cali.
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      03-18-2019, 11:14 AM   #17
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Irvine is one of the worst. I have "considered" buying through them a half dozen times in the last 10 years and every time I literally walk out after 10 minutes. Unless you pull up in a JDM'd M4, they don't pay attention. Tried to buy an Alpina B7 there and couldn't even get a test drive. insane.
I literally offered them a 10k deposit in a form of cash, check or credit and the GM and GSM never called me back.
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      03-18-2019, 11:23 AM   #18
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I'm kind of a fool it seems, because I paid the full $109k sticker price for mine. :bag:

The part that irked me the most was the high pressure sales manager--she came in and gave me a really hard time for not adding all sorts of additional insurance, including the wheel and tire insurance. Clearly if BMW is pushing it, they figure they're making out well on it... it's sort of like a casino asking my why I don't bet more on blackjack... duh
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      03-18-2019, 11:33 AM   #19
greentrbo95gst
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Originally Posted by OtisX7 View Post
I'm kind of a fool it seems, because I paid the full $109k sticker price for mine. :bag:

The part that irked me the most was the high pressure sales manager--she came in and gave me a really hard time for not adding all sorts of additional insurance, including the wheel and tire insurance. Clearly if BMW is pushing it, they figure they're making out well on it... it's sort of like a casino asking my why I don't bet more on blackjack... duh
I always get wheel and tire protection. It pays for itself, but I can't justify anything else.
Considering the tires are run flats and they are not to be repaired after nails, bmw replaces the tire for free. It's worth it.
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      03-18-2019, 12:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst View Post
I always get wheel and tire protection. It pays for itself, but I can't justify anything else.
Considering the tires are run flats and they are not to be repaired after nails, bmw replaces the tire for free. It's worth it.
I think the air suspensions is going to negate some of the need for this insurance, especially if you are only running 21" wheels.
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      03-18-2019, 12:09 PM   #21
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I think the air suspensions is going to negate some of the need for this insurance, especially if you are only running 21" wheels.
What do you mean? Air suspension or 21" wheels do not stop you from running over nails, no? We may be talking about two different things.
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      03-18-2019, 12:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst View Post
What do you mean? Air suspension or 21" wheels do not stop you from running over nails, no? We may be talking about two different things.
Yeah I am thinking pot holes rather than nails.
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